Yeah. That was pretty terrible.

Once Wally was free Barry could have fought Zoom. But no, a deal is a deal after all. Let me just give you my speed. Ugh.

What I don't get about that is why did they bother showing a scene of Zoom saying "this complicates things" when he killed his past self (once the last breach was closed), if they had already agreed that was going to happen?

I still like the show... but this reveal and explanation does not compute to me.

I was assuming that the guy in the iron mask was trying to communicate to Barry that he was the real Jay. I was under the impression that Zoom stole his identity.


[/quote]wonder if Caitlin will ever date again on this show. First Ronnie dies, only for her to date a psychotic serial killer from another dimension after him.[/QUOTE]

I don't judge her. She has needs .

This is what pushes Caitlin over to become Killer Frost.

I have a feeling this plot-twist will somehow lead to Wally gaining some of Barry's speed. He's sure to find out Barry is The Flash at any rate.

Why do they ever follow Barry's plans? They never work!

If Hunter Zolomon was basically Charles Manson-level famous, it seems like a maskless superhero identity probably wasn't the best idea.

Overall I enjoyed the episode. But so many things are not making sense.

The whole reveal and explanation about Zoom/Jay/Zolomon was very convoluted.

I'm wondering if this episode was written well before the Supergirl crossover was written and filmed. Seemed a little weird that Barry came back after disappearing and didn't even acknowledge he went to another earth and met Supergirl.

Makes me think Berlanti and his writers saw this little "gap" in the script where they could make it feasible for a crossover to happen.

Or perhaps they decided to make it "neutral" for the show's future in other markets. Oddly, though, "Supergirl" will always have an appearance by "The Flash".

Though, yeah, they probably had this set up before they got the permission for the cross-over (or it could go "as is" if they didn't get permission).

yeah, too much going on. so the iron mask guy is wally west of E2, right? he's got speed and connection to the wests, so that is why he is being held. only thing that makes sense. or unless somehow it is E1 wally west, who gets speed and crosses over/time travels. could the returned wally not even be the right wally?

i do agree that it was ridiculous he just gives up his speed. he's clearly faster and yet once wally is let go, he just gives up. stupid.

The guy in the mask is E1 Jay? Maybe that's why an E1 Jay wasn't shown to exist so far. Make as much sense as anything.

Guess Barry is getting that V9 or whatever that speed drug was called.

That was Barry saying "up here", not Wally.

Having now thought about this season in total, I think the writers have one more trick up their sleeve no one is going to see coming.

This episode was the false denouement that often precedes the real revelation. Some of the stuff revealed by fake Jay hasn't sat well with me for some reason.

What was the deal with when Zolomon said "darkness" and his eyes went dark and he broke out of the leg brace?

I loved Zoom's Origin story.
Hated most everything else.

Maybe the FLASH Producers should hire Mark Waid to write an episode or two.
Based on his current ARCHIE stories he could handle these relationship issue alot better then the writers
have so far.

Jay went from horribly underused to flat out abused.

Until we get more information, I'm treating everything Jay/Zoom said as a flat-out lie or misdirection. Since Zoom is insane, I don't think a lot of what he says can be taken at face value.

The funniest part is that with Jay/Zoom dying, they actually didn't have to do a single goddamn thing, except to just wait for him to die, which wasn't supposed to take much longer. But now they've given him new life. Idiots.

Yeah, i normally follow time travel stuff OK, but the killing of the time remnant...

If the time remnant is from the past, wouldn't that have killed current zoom (similar to thawne being wiped from existence).

If the time remnant is from the future, isn't zoom ending his own life in the future? Where's the logic in that?

Also love that Barry is given a list of things to specifically NOT do, and he does EVERY SINGLE ONE (well, except telling cisco/kaitlin about wells being thawne).

I can't help but think that Welles tinkered with his speed force transfer device to include something to bring Zoom down. Interesting that Zoom unhesitatingly injected the contents into himself without verifying them. That would allow Barry to retain hero status because he bargained in good faith, albeit with a terrorist. I couldn't help but think of the Spaceballs quote "Evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

I too didn't get how Zoom apparently got back to Earth 2 with Wally unless Zoom went back in time to when the breaches still existed on Earth 1, went back to Earth 2 and then sped back to current time.

FFS people, crying foul about Jay Garrick and instantly assuming the worst:

I understood that to be that once Cisco opened the breach in the hospital, it was left open.

You can't really think it's going to be that cut & dried. There's going to be some kind of twist where they double-crossed Zoom and he only THINKS he's won. But HOW they double-crossed him is what they're making us wait for.