Tommy Ceez

He is an incredibly honor bound man but a religious war would suck

Bill Needle

I get the impression that for Stannis the religion stuff is merely a means to an end. He goes along only as much as he needs to in order to use the power of it (through the Red Woman) for a leg up on his enemies, but other than that couldn't care less. In fact, if no one else believes then all the better because he has all the Vag-Monsters to himself. The whole heretic-burnt-alive thing is just to keep the Red Woman happy.

fumanstan

How come he doesn't send more Vag Monsters at people?

HN

^^Melisandre cockblocked him

aktick

What in previous episodes suggested that? I remember reading the theory last year, and it made sense, but I can't remember now. And nothing has been confirmed in the books yet, correct?

dhmac

Given that George R.R. Martin seems to take inspiration from real history and famous legends, that's how the Trojan War happened when Helen was taken by Paris to Troy. One view said Helen was abducted by Paris, but another said she went willingly because she fell in love with Paris. GRRM seems to be lifting the setup of the "Helen of Troy" story entirely for the Lyanna/Rhaegar storyline, including being the catalyst of a war.

Groucho

I believe it was said that if he tries that again it will kill him.

fumanstan

He can't get it up, or his swimmers aren't swimming?

wishbone

It's all about Mojo: The libido. The life force. The essence. The right stuff. What the French call a certain... I don't know what.

DeputyDave

It was a combination of many things.

1) Ned would have never cheated on his wife. He proved over and over he was honorable to an extreme fault.

2) Yet when he and Jon parted ways in the first season (episode 2?) he assured him he WAS a Stark. If Ned wasn't the father then the only living Stark was his sister.

3) Yet he continued to lie about it, even (and especially) to King Robert. The only reason was knowing what the king may do if he found out there was a Targarion living (kill him). And how upset he would be if he found out his betrothed had a baby out of a rape, or worse love.

4) Last week the Dornish prince said Rhagar abandoned his own sister for another woman starting a war. He made it sound like a real relationship, not a kidnapping.

JasonF

While I don't disagree with the big picture of what you laid out, with respect to point 2, there is one other Stark - Benjen, Ned's younger brother. He was last seen in Season 1 -- as head Ranger of the Night's Watch, he went out to investigate the Wildlings and hasn't been seen since. Part of what the Noght's Watch was doing in season two was looking for any sign of Benjen.

sven

Benjen was like 10 years old and 1000 miles from Dorne when Jon was born.

mcnabb

Finally saw this episode last night as I stayed away from all social media and spoilers. I will say I will miss Joffrey, simply because the actor who played him was so damn good at being an unlikeable bad guy! I figured Joffrey was eventually going to get killed, so this didn't come as big as a shock as the Red Wedding last year, but still a powerful start to the season!

And I will continue to say that I could watch 60 minutes of just the Lannisters every week, as their disfunction is so entertaining!

Josh-da-man

A little more from the books (these are from "A Game of Thrones," the first book, and are very minor spoilers) so I feel safe posting them in this thread for those who want to know more about this theory:

JasonF

Agreed, and good point, but Ned and Lyanna weren't the only living Starks. Like I said, I agree with a Deputy Dave big picture but wanted to tweak one detail.

Hiro11

Watched it last night:
1. Joffrey was stacking up the "I'm a cruel, idiotic teenager" points last night almost to the point of parody. His character was on the verge of becoming charicature. Probably a good time to call it a day.

2. Lots of clues about who killed Joffrey if you pay attention.

3. Loved seeing the character interactions between Cersei and Brienne, Oberyn and Tywin/Cersei, Bronn and Jaime and lastly Loras and Jaime. Loras gets the last laugh!

4. Varys had awesome reaction shots throughout the wedding. That guy has soul. One of the more underrated characters. Can't wait for the reemergence of his foil Littlefinger.

5. Ramsay Snow's been a bit one dimensional so far but he's just starting to come into his own. His demented, wide-eyed grin is disturbing, but his reaction to Roose's new wife was even more terrifying as he can switch demeanor so completely. Also, his interactions with Roose were fabulous in this show. I realized about halfway through the scene in the woods that the girl shooting arrows was one of the girls who tormented Theon. Also, if Roose believes Bran and Rickon are in Castle Black, does he seriously believe a lowlife like Locke will be able to do anything about it? Maybe this just shows that everyone considers the Black Watch to be a joke.

6. Bran's flashback/flashforward on touching the weirwood has some terrific stuff in it if you pay attention.

7. Cersei's smug smirking at Tyrion being tortured while everyone else is appalled shows where the real rot in the Lannisters lies. For God's sake, even Tywin was starting to get a little fed up.

8. Davos/Stannis/Melisandre continues to be a bit of a weak link.

Tommy Ceez

Ned paraphrased "You may not have my name but you have my blood"

That's pretty much the smoking gun. Never says son. And this was his send off to someone he loved going to take the black.

Tommy Ceez

4. There's a TERRIFIC shot of one of the 5 king dwarves running past varys and bonking him on the head with his mace. Varys reaction is priceless. He's also playing his IM SO HELPLESS AND WEAK hand a bit strong

5. This is a show only storyline so there's no spoilers here but Locke would be like the 50th worst person in the Nights Watch so I'm sure he could 'join' without a problem

8. This is a chronological continuity problem. They have to kind of sit in a holding pattern until everyone else's story catches up to them. Kind of like THE ENTIRE DANCE WITH DRAGONS book

wishbone

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3hDFkHmRTQE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hiro11

I think he's being honest about his position. The only thing he has is information that may be damaging to other people. Tyrion was trying to enlist Varys to run some interference for him. Varys, being no dummy, realizes that Tyrion is hardly in a position to protect him and hardly in a position to order him around. Also, he realises that lying to Tywin and Cersei is a losing game and wisely declines.

I hadn't considered the possibility of Locke attempting to join the Black Watch. Interesting concept...

superdeluxe

Can we just go back when it was one giant happy stark family (Or at least partially happy).

JasonF

Speaking of, did they explain (last night, or in prior episodes) why Roose had married a fat chick? One of my favorite little details/jokes from the books.

wishbone

I don't recall that being explained. I don't think they mentioned why the Starks were eating bread and salt (guest right) at the Twins either so maybe it's just a nod to the readers?

Maxflier

So Tommen is king now? Kinda weird that such an insignificant character (and by insignificant I mean not being featured much) from the show is now in such a prominent position.

Draven

The exact same thing happens in the books. Tommen didn't get much "page time" either until this happened.