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The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

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The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Old 11-04-13, 02:59 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

so...

Spoiler:
is this a way of showing carol off as a crazy person just like in the comic book?
Old 11-04-13, 03:02 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by chowderhead View Post
Rick is more like the governor than Carol is. Who was the one seeing visions and talking to their dead spouse on the phone? I am sure Rick would have no problem killing everyone to protect Carl or Judith. He is just being hypocritical.
No. He didn't stab anyone in the back of the head because he was scared he might get sick later. Shane's death is completely justified IMO.

Rick went through a short crazy phase after Lori died but he didn't start killing anyone that opposed him as the Gov or Shane would have. The "dictator" line Rick states at the end of S2, up until he decides to not hand Michonne over to the Gov, was the shows way of making us wonder if he would take that turn or not. He didn't.
Old 11-04-13, 03:05 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

I don't think so Raven, but that just my opinion. Carol has done some bad stuff this season but she can justify her own actions to herself. Her reasoning is pretty sound even if most don't agree with her. I wouldn't call her crazy at all, just looking to survive as long as possible.

I still don't understand why she only killed two people though when many more were shown to be sick in the last two episodes.
Old 11-04-13, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DthRdrX View Post
No. He didn't stab anyone in the back of the head because he was scared he might get sick later. Shane's death is completely justified IMO.
Shane pulled a gun on Rick and told him outright he was going to kill him and take his wife and unborn child. Wouldn't that qualify as self-defense?
Old 11-04-13, 03:20 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Dth, just about everyone that has ever done anything can justify their own actions. The guy who had a couple of drinks before getting in the car can justify it by saying "hey I've done it a thousand times before and nothing has happened yet". Joseph Stalin while he was building the Soviet union justified what he did as "for the good of the people". And Adolph Hitler justified his actions by stating that the German people were "superior" to all others and so they had a manifest destiny to fulfill. Justifying your actions to yourself is childs play. Justifying them to reasoned and resonable people is a whole other ballgame.

When you are in a group like that it isn't unreasonable to believe it is with the understanding "all for one and one for all". Carol's take is "all for me and me for myself". She can try to justify that what she did was for the good of the group (good of the people) but remember this every repressive regime in the history of the world, when they started to line up the people in front of the walls has always justified their actions as for the good of the people. Its always starts that way. No one has ever come out and said "I did this for myself, screw the people, I am looking out only for number one" and expected to be a member in good standing in that group anymore.

And a question for you, even if you agree 100 percent that what she did was justified in the circumstances, would YOU want her in a group where it is possible that YOU could get sick and she might make the same decision about you? How about if you have two kids in that group and you know you make supply runs and she will be at the prison where your kids are and might get sick. Do you still want her in the group?

Last edited by MScottM; 11-04-13 at 03:25 PM.
Old 11-04-13, 04:05 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

How is the council going to make a decision?

Glen - Sick
Sasha - Sick
Daryl - "Missing"
Herschel - Might as well be sick
Carol - Person in question


RE: The girl being the killer. Did the killings happen before or after the kids were put in quarantine?
Old 11-04-13, 04:06 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by DthRdrX View Post
No. He didn't stab anyone in the back of the head because he was scared he might get sick later. Shane's death is completely justified IMO.

Rick went through a short crazy phase after Lori died but he didn't start killing anyone that opposed him as the Gov or Shane would have. The "dictator" line Rick states at the end of S2, up until he decides to not hand Michonne over to the Gov, was the shows way of making us wonder if he would take that turn or not. He didn't.
I think Rick is being hypocritical. Back in season 2, he would just waste anyone who was remotely a threat. He blew away two guys in a bar simply because he didn't like the way they were acting. In season 3, he drives by ignoring a kid on the highway begging for him. On the way back, the kid has been ripped to shreds. Rick didn't care.
Old 11-04-13, 04:22 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Rick had no problems banishing Tyrese and his group before so if Tyrese will be a problem ... just banish him. Seems like Tyrese is the one coming apart not Carol. Carol actually is teaching the children to defend themselves and being generally useful.
I do think the idea of Carol covering for the girl is intriguing and may explain why she was upset and tossing the water jugs after admitting to Rick she killed the 2 people.
Old 11-04-13, 04:22 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I think Rick is being hypocritical. Back in season 2, he would just waste anyone who was remotely a threat. He blew away two guys in a bar simply because he didn't like the way they were acting. In season 3, he drives by ignoring a kid on the highway begging for him. On the way back, the kid has been ripped to shreds. Rick didn't care.
Do you understand the difference between not helping someone and actively hurting someone? Rick is not responsible to or for everyone in the whole world. He has a group of people for which he takes responsibility. What good would it do to take in 5,000 people if you can only help/support 50? Who would that help? Rick didn't kill that guy, the zombies did. Rick just didn't help him. Its not about "not caring" its about knowing your limitations on who you can help.

And I think you better rewatch the bar scene episode. Rick didn't want to kill them, they gave him no choice.
Old 11-04-13, 04:33 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by MScottM View Post
Dth, just about everyone that has ever done anything can justify their own actions. The guy who had a couple of drinks before getting in the car can justify it by saying "hey I've done it a thousand times before and nothing has happened yet". Joseph Stalin while he was building the Soviet union justified what he did as "for the good of the people". And Adolph Hitler justified his actions by stating that the German people were "superior" to all others and so they had a manifest destiny to fulfill. Justifying your actions to yourself is childs play. Justifying them to reasoned and resonable people is a whole other ballgame.

When you are in a group like that it isn't unreasonable to believe it is with the understanding "all for one and one for all". Carol's take is "all for me and me for myself". She can try to justify that what she did was for the good of the group (good of the people) but remember this every repressive regime in the history of the world, when they started to line up the people in front of the walls has always justified their actions as for the good of the people. Its always starts that way. No one has ever come out and said "I did this for myself, screw the people, I am looking out only for number one" and expected to be a member in good standing in that group anymore.

And a question for you, even if you agree 100 percent that what she did was justified in the circumstances, would YOU want her in a group where it is possible that YOU could get sick and she might make the same decision about you? How about if you have two kids in that group and you know you make supply runs and she will be at the prison where your kids are and might get sick. Do you still want her in the group?
That wasn't my point. I'm arguing that Carol is not crazy because of what she did. I don't agree with her at all. That doesnt mean she is crazy. She made logical choices that she had thought out beforehand, and was able to argue her position. Crazy people don't tend to do those things. They usually act without thinking or without any rational sense. Carol isn't crazy.

As for Shane, I already stated Rick killing him was justified. Carol tried to hint that her murders were comparable which is BS. Rick was defending himself at that point.
Old 11-04-13, 04:36 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I think Rick is being hypocritical. Back in season 2, he would just waste anyone who was remotely a threat. He blew away two guys in a bar simply because he didn't like the way they were acting. In season 3, he drives by ignoring a kid on the highway begging for him. On the way back, the kid has been ripped to shreds. Rick didn't care.
1. The guys in the bar drew on Rick first. Was he supposed to let them shoot him?
2. Rick was a mental mess when he didnt pick up the hitch hiker. He acknowledges his mistake when Carl approaches him at the end of S3 about why he is bringing in the Woodbury folks.
Old 11-04-13, 05:22 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by dalbowski View Post


RE: The girl being the killer. Did the killings happen before or after the kids were put in quarantine?
EPISODE ONE:
* Carol is teaching the children, including Lizzie, how to use knives.

EPISODE TWO:
* Lizzie takes Carol's knife.
* The burned bodies are discovered.

EPISODE THREE:
*Lizzie tells Carol that she is sick. (Was she infected when she was killing Karen and David?)
Old 11-04-13, 05:57 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

I have felt that way since the incident occurred.
I have the feeling Rick gets back to the prison, finds out Lizzy did it and realizes he did wrong.
This will get a few people pissed off, Darryl goes out to find her and who knows what sort of shit storm that starts.
Old 11-04-13, 06:02 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by DthRdrX View Post
That wasn't my point. I'm arguing that Carol is not crazy because of what she did. I don't agree with her at all. That doesnt mean she is crazy. She made logical choices that she had thought out beforehand, and was able to argue her position. Crazy people don't tend to do those things. They usually act without thinking or without any rational sense. Carol isn't crazy.

As for Shane, I already stated Rick killing him was justified. Carol tried to hint that her murders were comparable which is BS. Rick was defending himself at that point.
Sorry man, misunderstood what you were saying. I agree that she isnt textbook crazy but I do think some of her conclusions are extremely questionable. I think she isnt seeing the forest for the trees right now. It appears that she thinks all problems are nails and she is the hammer.
Old 11-04-13, 06:08 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

He should have gave her directions to his old town where Morgan is.
Old 11-04-13, 06:31 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
EPISODE ONE:
* Carol is teaching the children, including Lizzie, how to use knives.

EPISODE TWO:
* Lizzie takes Carol's knife.
* The burned bodies are discovered.

EPISODE THREE:
*Lizzie tells Carol that she is sick. (Was she infected when she was killing Karen and David?)
There is no way that little girl was the killer. None. And if the show for some reason decides to write that she really was, then I will print this post and eat it.
Old 11-04-13, 06:41 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
EPISODE THREE:
*Lizzie tells Carol that she is sick. (Was she infected when she was killing Karen and David?)
Ah, completely forgot that Lizzie is in the "Dead Zone" and not the kids/elderly and Beth area.

I don't think she did it and I think her conversation with Carol this episode confirmed it. Lizzie seems to think that people are still "there" when they turn, so why stab two people in the head when they would become walkers at worst?
Old 11-04-13, 07:39 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Anyone think that Lizzie (the accused zombie-feeder) is the one who killed Karen and David, and Carol is just covering up for her?
That is what my wife has said since it went down, even before Carol admitted to doing it. I am not sure myself, but I am not discounting the thought of it being possible.

My biggest issue with this episode and part of the previous one also is the lack of urgency to find the meds and return to the prison. Rick and Carol stand around debating whether to help the two drifters or not when there are far more people they could possibly help by returning with the meds. Same goes for Daryl and his group.

I know Rick's main reasoning for going out is to get a better feel for Carol's actions. But why stop to pick tomatoes when you have more pressing needs.
Old 11-04-13, 07:49 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

I got the feeling Rick may have doubted Carol. He contemplated for a bit and even stopped what he was doing to go 'investigate' before leaving on their adventure. To me, even though he sent her on her way, he isn't 100% sure and almost gave her a chance to tell her it was someone else who killed them.

I have the feeling the group will go crazy when they learn about what went down and then go ape-shit when they learn it wasn't her, but someone else (Lizzy?) and then Daryl will go off to find her and who know what sort of shit storm ensues.
Old 11-04-13, 08:50 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

If Carol is covering up for the girl's kills, she is ultimately responsible. Carol was the one teaching children how to knife people. There are good reasons we generally don't let children handle weapons in society.
Old 11-04-13, 09:27 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

So Lizzie dragged two adult bodies? Guess she could've gotten help from Carol. Anyway, not sure why Carol confessed to Rick in the first place. Actually, it makes more sense if she was covering for Lizzie.
Old 11-04-13, 09:31 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
If Carol is covering up for the girl's kills, she is ultimately responsible. Carol was the one teaching children how to knife people. There are good reasons we generally don't let children handle weapons in society.
In this world, children are not children anymore. They are survivors and in order to continue to survive, they all need to know how to disable a threat. Carol was showing the children how to stop a walker. If Carol had shown Carl how to knife that walker in season 2, maybe Dale would still be alive. Rick is the one giving Carl the gun so is he responsible for Dale's death and Lori's?
Old 11-04-13, 10:04 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst113 View Post
Shane pulled a gun on Rick and told him outright he was going to kill him and take his wife and unborn child. Wouldn't that qualify as self-defense?
Only in Florida.
Old 11-04-13, 10:14 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by darkdaze73 View Post
My biggest issue with this episode and part of the previous one also is the lack of urgency to find the meds and return to the prison. Rick and Carol stand around debating whether to help the two drifters or not when there are far more people they could possibly help by returning with the meds. Same goes for Daryl and his group.

I know Rick's main reasoning for going out is to get a better feel for Carol's actions. But why stop to pick tomatoes when you have more pressing needs.
That's always been an issue with the show. Either there's a lack of urgency or a lack of caution... or both - things that should not be lacking in a life/death situation at every turn. The example of when the four of them were on that roof. Sure the walkers can't get to them up there, but the longer they hang around - the bigger the crowd of walkers waiting underneath for them. Not a good time for a discussion.

And I can understand looking for the exact meds you require, since you want to ensure you have what you need before going back to the prison. I just don't get why after finding what they needed that they didn't just take as many meds as they can fit in their napsacks. Time is important, but it could be worth taking the extra minute to do so - especially since you may need something else down the road and never come across this opportunity again.
Old 11-04-13, 10:19 PM
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Re: The Walking Dead -- "Indifference" -- 11/03/13

Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
So Lizzie dragged two adult bodies? Guess she could've gotten help from Carol. Anyway, not sure why Carol confessed to Rick in the first place. Actually, it makes more sense if she was covering for Lizzie.
The only way the theory works is if Lizzie killed them and Carol disposed of the bodies after she caught Lizzie.

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