Good God Man, if you'd been paying attention to THE SHOW, every word, every character, every situation - you'd now exactly where Theon is.

Hell, in this episode alone they beat you over the head with it.

The bottom line is you can't tell the same story the same way in the show as in the books. In the show you get scenes you'd never read in the books because the characters involved aren't POV characters, meaning there's no chapter from their perspective.

You'd never see Joffrey torturing whores or being seduced by Margaery.

You'd be strung along for episodes by the identity of "Whitebeard" instead of knowing he's Barristan Selmy.

You'd never ever hear the name Daenerys Stormborn to then be absolutely LIVID at the "book readers" for giving deeper meaning to it.

Conversely, you're not going to get as rich an experience from just the show. You need to look at a map. You need to see a family tree. You need to see houses, bannermen, territories, etc.

For fuck's sake, the story is so much deeper than you can get from 10 hours a year. If you aren't willing to watch, re-watch, absorb, and truly understand who the people are, what their family histories are, their allegiances, where places are, where events are occurring, and what exactly it all means, then please don't get all pissy and assume things are bigger than they are. It's context, not spoilers.

Or just read the fucking books. Reading is good for you. When I was reading the third book, I was curious about some things and accidentally read some major spoilers. Was it disappointing? Yes. Whose fault was it? My own. I never once considered getting frustrated with anybody but myself for reading them. The books have been around since the 90s and they have lots of fans, anyplace where the show or books are discussed are going to have major potential for spoilers. It's common sense.

I think you misunderstood my explanation. I'm in no way saying he is dead/alive, I'm saying that in Book 5 we are told what happens to him (wherever he is)....only difference being the show is actually SHOWING you what is happening, rather than reading about Theon's memory of it.

You should probably calm down.

On a side note in regards to Pinata, I agree 110%. If any of you think this show is good (and it's damn good), the books are the most incredible reading experiences I have ever had. Seriously, I would consider STOPPING your viewership of the show until you read through AT LEAST the first three books. The show, for all it does so wonderful, isn't an equal experience to the book.

I thought arminius was being sarcastic. I think people go overboard with the spoiler complaints even as a non-book reader myself, but then again i'm not one to get that mad about knowing plot points for a lot of things, as its typically the journey that makes things an experience, not just knowing the the end result (except for big plot twists).

That said, I don't think "read the fucking books" is valid, anymore then it would be to say the same about something like The Walking Dead. People just aren't going to care enough to do so, and you shouldn't expect everyone to for a mass marketed TV show. The problem is people don't know whats a major spoiler and whats simply context, or if the show will go into certain characters or not, so I can see why people are sensitive about it and prefer people to just be quiet altogether.

Of course, I actually tried to read the books and bought the set of the first 4 paperbacks, but lost interest half way through the first book.

That's all I'm saying. It's a different experience. If anyone who hasn't read the books honestly believes anyone in these threads is actively spoiling stuff, they're reading too much into. Go onto a YouTube comment thread and learn what spoilers really are.

Does anyone else think Jamie fighting Brienne on the bridge made no sense? She's taking him back to King's Landing where he will be freed (presumably in exchange for just Sansa, given that Arya isn't there). Why would he want to jeopardize this happening? It seems to be in his best interest to make it back to King's Landing without being captured or killed in a fight.

Did his behavior make no sense, or am I missing something?

He knows she won't kill him and he's closer to Lannister-friendly territory with each step. The worst thing that could happen is he stays in her custody and they honor the trade. The best is he gets away for free.

Plus, did you see him with sword-in-hand? He hasn't been that complete in a long time.

Jamie probably felt like taking his chances rather than being apprehended by those that would kill him.

When did Brienne acquire the other sword, sans scabbard? When I saw it in her belt I knew that their duel was imminent.

But even Jamie mentioned the dangers of being captured while crossing the bridge, so seems to have known that getting across quickly was important. But instead his behavior on the bridge in sitting down and then fighting Brienne delayed them on that bridge long enough to get captured, which is a worst case scenario for him.

(Although he still might have gotten captured, being on the bridge at the time made it very easy.)

He was talking about the dangers of Brienne being captured, not him. He's in ever-increasing-friendly territory. That's why the other half of the dilemma was him escaping down the river.

I've read the books, I was being sarcastic because of all the concern over spoilers, real and implied.

Watched it last night. Pretty good episode.

The stuff with Bran and the Reeds was the highpoint of the episode. Again, the casting of the Reeds is spot-on. Bran is disconcertingly older.

Other highpoints include:

Margeary effortlessly taking care of Joffrey. No one else has figured out how to placate this brat, the way the show demonstrated how it's done was believable and seemless. Beautifully acted by both parts.

Queen of Thorns and Sansa. I have never really understood why people hate Sansa so much. She's just a little kid trying to survive in an environment where she realizes that she could be killed any second. She has had to learn how to play the game early in her life and she's doing the best she can. Diana Rigg is perfect as the Dowager Countess.

Simplifying Arya's story vs. the books. The books are just too convoluted and meandering, the show has a much more direct approach. I like it. I also like Gendry asking her the question I always wanted to ask her.

Brienne and Jaime. Great, realistic sword fighting scene, excellent acting from the guy (whatever) playing Jaime. Jaime is one of the few people that seems to understand how to operate in Westros. Rule of thumb: no good deed goes unpunished.

Lowlights:

North of the wall. I can't stand the whimpering, sniveling Samwell and the Watch story has essentially zero tension in it at this point. They ducked the battle at the Fist for budgetary reasons and have sucked all of the excitement out of this story.

Robb continues to be an effing fool. We get it, the Starks are "loyal" and "honest" and live by their heart and this gets them in trouble. Karstark is right to call bullshit on him.

Tyrion is given nothing to do and his sole scene falls flat. Terrible accent from Dinklage in this episode, Shae's jealousy was painfully cutesy. This scene should have been cut.

No Bronn. No Tywin.

Mixed feelings:

Catelyn's guilt. Making her more sympathetic in her feeling towards Jon Snow adds little to the story but is somewhat interesting. Also, she seems to believe that Bran and Rickon are alive, another interesting choice.

Jon Snow. Don't really like this character and he had nothing to do this week, but the cast of characters in the Wildings continues to get better with the introduction of M. Crook. This story should start moving again soon.

No Astapor. They showed it in the opening sequence but nothing happened there during the show. Can't wait to get back there.

Overall, another exposition / table setting episode. Worth watching but not one I'll revisit.

pretty much word for word what I was going to write...

I have read all five books & felt the same way. Many of the newly-created scenes have that feel about them, and IMHO, they make the show drag a bit. Superdeluxe's points about the exposition not being extraneous in that they help to explain the complicated goings-on are well-taken, though.

I know HBO would never have considered doing this to their Golden Goose, but it might have helped if they had aired episodes 1 & 2 back-to-back since they were almost all exposition/catching-up "where-are-they-now" scenes. Then again, that much sitting around talking might have been counterproductive.

It's apparent that the producers want to give screen time to many of the major players (Rob, Katlyn, Joffrey, Stannis, etc.) whose appearances in the books are limited...and give the actors something to do...but (again, IMHO) the "new" scenes interfere somewhat. The focus in the books (Jon, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Tyrion, Cersei, and Dany...with later chapters devoted to Brienne, Davos, Melisandre, Theon, Asha "Yara", etc.) was enough for readers to follow. It also made sense in that, as in real life (especially when long-distance communication is handled by ravens), people don't know what is going on elsewhere, and rumors are rampant. Trying to 'even out' the screen time can have the effect of diluting the story somewhat, and the result often feels like filler. The Rob/Jeyne scenes always have that effect on me.

Still, sometimes the decisions are spot on (dropping the 'boy' disguise for Arya, revealing Sir Barriston immediately, and giving more glimpses of Joffrey's ruling style) prove that different mediums require different handling. I was disappointed in the 'guilt' of Katlyn & felt it totally unnecessary...and thought that her belief that Bran & Rickon are still alive wasn't in the books (as a previous poster indicated). To me, it is much more poignant if she feels that her children are dying/lost (even though we know differently...and cannot tell her) and adds to her desperate attempts to get the surviving children back.

Overall, still very impressed with the epic...even with the new scenes negatively affecting the perfect pacing of Book 3. Still, it's not like watching the extended version of a saga in which great scenes deleted for sake of time have been re-incorporated. It's still the tv highlight of the week for us, but I imagine that many people who found the early scenes of Season 1 too slow are finding this season interminable so far.

Game of Thrones rules the Night:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...n-more/177076/

One new development in the show was the appearance of the Brotherhood Without Banners. Are they basically like the Robin Hood & His Merry Men of Westeros? And, if so, does that mean we will see an archery contest?

I noticed that Bran now has to be dragged around in a wheelbarrow. At the rate that kid is growing, I suspect he'll be carrying Hodor around by Season 6.

^ I heard that Isaac was getting too heavy for Kristian Nairn's back last season so that's why they started using the cart.

Hodor Fun Fact #17: Kristian's tattoos on his temple are made to look like a scar on the show.

Guys, seriously, I can't keep drinking this much. I have work to do!

Hell even Rickon looks like he is 13-14 now lol, kid will be wearing armor and wielding a sword in a year!

Well I got a pleasant surprise. We had dropped HBO due to the costs and very seldom watching anything on it except for some of the series, like GOT. And I buy the DVDs anyway. Then the wife discovers we still have HBO On Demand so I can watch the next day. So I'm all good.