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Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

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Old 05-11-11 | 02:29 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
Great point! Sooo
Spoiler:
If you don't have any natural children, your bastard children can becoime heir? For example..if Ned didn't have children..would Jon be the heir? Even though he is a bastard?
Bastards can be legitimized by the king, or a lord can appoint his bastard as heir.

Also, it's not true that bastards have no claim to succession. In the book, Cat's dislike of Jon is explained as her perceiving him as a threat to her children since it's not unheard of for a well-liked bastard to usurp the titles of his less popular half-siblings.

(And before Pinata jumps on me for spoilers, we're well past the point in the story where this would've been explained. It's a minor detail that the TV writers dropped.)
Old 05-11-11 | 02:30 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Spoiler:
It would go to the siblings before the bastards. The older history involving the Targaryen's had a war because Aegon IV decided to legitimize all his bastards. Basically, if Robert decided he wanted Gendry to be his heir, some would buy into it, but Stannis probably still would have laid claim (but I think the general feel of all these books is that putting Robert on the throne in the first place kind of destroyed any of the rules of right and wrong regarding who is the 'rightful' king anyway)
Old 05-11-11 | 02:32 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
Bastards can be legitimized by the king, or a lord can appoint his bastard as heir.

Also, it's not true that bastards have no claim to succession. In the book, Cat's dislike of Jon is explained as her perceiving him as a threat to her children since it's not unheard of for a well-liked bastard to usurp the titles of his less popular half-siblings.

(And before Pinata jumps on me for spoilers, we're well past the point in the story where this would've been explained. It's a minor detail that the TV writers dropped.)
In response to your question, only if you have read the entire series click

Spoiler:
So this is like when Robb names Jon as his heir correct? Robb was the new lord, so he named Jon as his heir, to make sure there was a stark in winterfell...he didn't want a lannister in ownership or what not...and he thought his brothers were dead.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:33 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by starman9000
Spoiler:
It would go to the siblings before the bastards. The older history involving the Targaryen's had a war because Aegon IV decided to legitimize all his bastards. Basically, if Robert decided he wanted Gendry to be his heir, some would buy into it, but Stannis probably still would have laid claim (but I think the general feel of all these books is that putting Robert on the throne in the first place kind of destroyed any of the rules of right and wrong regarding who is the 'rightful' king anyway)
So in this case it would be
Spoiler:
Stannis, then Renly, then Gendry if he was named as heir?
Old 05-11-11 | 02:34 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
(And before Pinata jumps on me for spoilers, we're well past the point in the story where this would've been explained. It's a minor detail that the TV writers dropped.)
... I'll allow it ... Obviously succession theme is obvious.

Hence why they're sent out to The Wall to serve and die remotely to not be a threat.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:35 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
In response to your question, only if you have read the entire series click

Spoiler:
So this is like when Robb names Jon as his heir correct? Robb was the new lord, so he named Jon as his heir, to make sure there was a stark in winterfell...he didn't want a lannister in ownership or what not...and he thought his brothers were dead.
Yes. Also remember
Spoiler:
when Stannis shows up at the Wall, he offers to legitimize Jon -- which would be an interesting legal question as to whether Stannis has the power to do so.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:37 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
So in this case it would be
Spoiler:
Stannis, then Renly, then Gendry if he was named as heir?
Spoiler:
Not really, I meant to say it would be Gendry (if Robert declared it so), then Stannis, then Stannis kids/grandkids, then Renly etc...but that Stannis and others would likely say that the Gendry claim is absurd (though maybe Stannis would be OK with it).
Old 05-11-11 | 02:38 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

To anybody who has read the entire series or most of it, does that HBO just posted spoil anything past the first book? I looked at it but after seeing the legend was wary about how hard I should look at it since I'm only coming to the end of the first book.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:40 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by rocketsauce
To anybody who has read the entire series or most of it, does that HBO just posted spoil anything past the first book? I looked at it but after seeing the legend was wary about how hard I should look at it since I'm only coming to the end of the first book.
I've gone through the Houses Graphic that I posted, and I swear it doesn't spoilerize anything that isn't/shouldn't be known? But I'll let others chime in as well.

There are a few minor things, such as some of the direwolves have not been explicity named yet in the show, but they are named in the graphic etc.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:41 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

I don't think so, but there are some characters that aren't in the first book, I believe, so it's sort of a round about spoiler I suppose.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:42 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by starman9000
I don't think so, but there are some characters that aren't in the first book, I believe, so it's sort of a round about spoiler I suppose.
Ok that's fine with me I just saw in the legend that there was a skull to represent like death or cause of death and didn't want to see that if it was something that happened in a later book. Thanks.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:42 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
I've gone through the Houses Graphic that I posted, and I swear it doesn't spoilerize anything that isn't/shouldn't be known? But I'll let others chime in as well.

There are a few minor things, such as some of the direwolves have not been explicity named yet in the show, but they are named in the graphic etc.
Spoiler:
When do we hear about Tyrion causing his mother's death?
Old 05-11-11 | 02:43 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara
Yes. Also remember
Spoiler:
when Stannis shows up at the Wall, he offers to legitimize Jon -- which would be an interesting legal question as to whether Stannis has the power to do so.
Yeah, that will be interesting how all of that turns out for sure.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:44 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by starman9000
Spoiler:
When do we hear about Tyrion causing his mother's death?
Didn't we already when he was talking to Jon before they left Winterfell?
Old 05-11-11 | 02:45 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by rocketsauce
Ok that's fine with me I just saw in the legend that there was a skull to represent like death or cause of death and didn't want to see that if it was something that happened in a later book. Thanks.
Yeah, those appear to be all things that happen prior to the current story, however, I'm not sure if they have all been revealed yet in the show. (sort of the question of how spoilerish learning about past events is I guess)
Old 05-11-11 | 02:45 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by starman9000
Spoiler:
When do we hear about Tyrion causing his mother's death?
I believe it is mentioned in the episode
Spoiler:
Where he was talking about why his father hates him..because his mom died when he was having Tyrion. also it is known that Jaime killed Aerys. But not sure if it is known that Rickard killed Ryhaeger
Old 05-11-11 | 02:45 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Ok yeah thanks, I couldn't remember. I think a few others haven't specifically been discussed, but still, not that 'spoilery'.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:49 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by starman9000
Ok yeah thanks, I couldn't remember. I think a few others haven't specifically been discussed, but still, not that 'spoilery'.
Yeah honestly..I think that graphic would along with the HBO viewer guide are two key pieces to help understand everything. I like the viewers guide because it has pictures..and I like that graphic, because it shows all the different relationships.

And you can tell that all the deaths have happened before the start of GoT, because they don't have Lady's death in it.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:50 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by Noonan
Didn't we already when he was talking to Jon before they left Winterfell?
Yes they discussed it, maybe on the trip to the wall.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:53 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
Yeah honestly..I think that graphic would along with the HBO viewer guide are two key pieces to help understand everything. I like the viewers guide because it has pictures..and I like that graphic, because it shows all the different relationships.

And you can tell that all the deaths have happened before the start of GoT, because they don't have Lady's death in it.
Yeah. I guess the best answer is, if you are the kind of person that didn't want to know a direwolf's name before it was revealed, then you'd want to avoid this. Anyone else would probably be fine looking at it.
Old 05-11-11 | 02:59 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by starman9000
Yeah. I guess the best answer is, if you are the kind of person that didn't want to know a direwolf's name before it was revealed, then you'd want to avoid this. Anyone else would probably be fine looking at it.
Yeah true, I gave the wife a printed out the printed out cheat sheet, and she was thankful to keep a who's who in check. even though she is pretty spot on with everything (She knew who was who, when theon/Jon/Robb confusion has risen up)
Old 05-11-11 | 02:59 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by superdeluxe
I believe it is mentioned in the episode
Spoiler:
Where he was talking about why his father hates him..because his mom died when he was having Tyrion. also it is known that Jaime killed Aerys. But not sure if it is known that Rickard killed Ryhaeger


Spoiler:
Rickard did not kill Rhaegar , Robert did on the Trident. I am not sure why the map is showing Rhaegar ---> to both Bren and Rickard; I guess they mean his actions of kidnapping Lyanna directly led to their deaths.
Old 05-11-11 | 03:01 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Good interview with Brian Cogman, who was the writer/director of the last episode:

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/05/...gman/#comments

He is termed the 'keeper of the mythos'. I can presume to that means he has to keep track of all the background stuff.

Another strange thing was that he got involved with GoT, because his wife was David's nanny (one of the show creators).

This guy looks like he is in his 30s...so yeah..that is strange.
Old 05-11-11 | 03:07 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

That means she was the nanny employed by David.
Old 05-11-11 | 03:13 PM
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Re: Game of Thrones -- "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" -- 5/08/11

Originally Posted by starman9000
That means she was the nanny employed by David.
OOOOK lol whew.

I was wondering..I think I've seen Maury Povich do a show about this *My husband is 50 years younger than me* lol

One of the WiCers corrected me as well lol, now I feel stupid heh.


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