Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
03-15-10 | 05:12 PM
#276
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
Like I said, I got my info from Wikipedia, so take that for what it's worth, but like someone else said, the creators have stated it is more like a three-part finale.
03-15-10 | 05:52 PM
#277
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
It took me a little while to wrap my head around the Jughead paradox. The creators told us plainly in interviews we were going to see what happened if the bomb went off and what would happen if the bomb didn't go off. However, we were led to believe that the heroes still on the island in 2007 time line the bomb didn't work and never went off and that the 2004 alternate reality time line was created because the bomb went off.
However, I think people trying to see some kind of new mystery in all of this are forgetting another key thing the creators of the show told us: they are NOT introducing any new mysteries this season. It's not some multiverse thing, not a "Crisis on Infinite Islands," or anything like that.
It's that we were led to believe the opposite of what happened. Our heroes are still on the island in 2007 because the bomb DID go off.
The bomb went off in 1977, the power of the bomb was absorbed by the electromagnetic energy and created a chain of events that led to Desmond pushing the button (and recall the people in radiation suits during this time period…that’s because the bomb did go off on the island), Ben becoming the leader, and the plane crashing in 2004. The bomb going off created one more time flash that sent our intrepid heroes forward in time to 2007, where they went to the Temple and everything that has unfolded on the island has happened. Our heroes seem to be doomed to be the creators of their own time paradox that keeps them tied to the island.
The so-called "flash sideways" as the fans have dubbed it are not showing you a multiuniverse time lime or some split in timelines created by the bomb going off. No, the "flash sideways" (which I refer to as "flash season seven" for lack of a better term) are showing us what happened when the bomb never went off. The time we see the bomb won’t go off in 1977 will be revealed at the end of the season. "Dr. Linus" verifies my theory all the more strongly. At the end of season six on the island, as a result of the battle, things will be reset some how. Jacob or some power who takes over for Jacob (Widmore perhaps?) will find a way to reset things and cause it so our heroes NEVER crashed on the island. Instead of ending the series making fans wonder what happened after the reset, we are seeing it NOW as the season unfolds. The creators promised us that the story lines of all the characters would be wrapped up, and instead of making us wonder what happened to each character after the end of season six we are seeing how their stories are wrapped up in the "flashes." Everybody is getting their happy little endings for their character arcs. That is NOT some multiuniverse thing we are seeing. After the reset, they never crash on the island, the bomb never goes off. The creators are right...we are also seeing what would happen if the bomb never went off...it never goes off after the reset. And something else happens that causes the island to sink....perhaps the result of the "Incident" when it was never interrupted by the bomb going off?
Think about it: If the bomb went off and created the "flash sideways" some fans seem to think it created, Dr. Linus and dad would have talked about how they escaped the island after such a terrible calamity that caused the island to sink. But, no, they did not...they just left the Darmah Initiative. It all sounded routine and normal. Because after the reset our heroes never go back to start the chain of events that leads to Ben being shot and becoming the leader of the Others.
The more fans refute my theory (and I've posted this elsewhere) the more I see that I am right. I had this theory a few weeks into this season and everything that has happened in the off island flashes verifies my thinking. I will be VERY shocked if this isn’t the way things turn out on the show.
However, I think people trying to see some kind of new mystery in all of this are forgetting another key thing the creators of the show told us: they are NOT introducing any new mysteries this season. It's not some multiverse thing, not a "Crisis on Infinite Islands," or anything like that.
It's that we were led to believe the opposite of what happened. Our heroes are still on the island in 2007 because the bomb DID go off.
The bomb went off in 1977, the power of the bomb was absorbed by the electromagnetic energy and created a chain of events that led to Desmond pushing the button (and recall the people in radiation suits during this time period…that’s because the bomb did go off on the island), Ben becoming the leader, and the plane crashing in 2004. The bomb going off created one more time flash that sent our intrepid heroes forward in time to 2007, where they went to the Temple and everything that has unfolded on the island has happened. Our heroes seem to be doomed to be the creators of their own time paradox that keeps them tied to the island.
The so-called "flash sideways" as the fans have dubbed it are not showing you a multiuniverse time lime or some split in timelines created by the bomb going off. No, the "flash sideways" (which I refer to as "flash season seven" for lack of a better term) are showing us what happened when the bomb never went off. The time we see the bomb won’t go off in 1977 will be revealed at the end of the season. "Dr. Linus" verifies my theory all the more strongly. At the end of season six on the island, as a result of the battle, things will be reset some how. Jacob or some power who takes over for Jacob (Widmore perhaps?) will find a way to reset things and cause it so our heroes NEVER crashed on the island. Instead of ending the series making fans wonder what happened after the reset, we are seeing it NOW as the season unfolds. The creators promised us that the story lines of all the characters would be wrapped up, and instead of making us wonder what happened to each character after the end of season six we are seeing how their stories are wrapped up in the "flashes." Everybody is getting their happy little endings for their character arcs. That is NOT some multiuniverse thing we are seeing. After the reset, they never crash on the island, the bomb never goes off. The creators are right...we are also seeing what would happen if the bomb never went off...it never goes off after the reset. And something else happens that causes the island to sink....perhaps the result of the "Incident" when it was never interrupted by the bomb going off?
Think about it: If the bomb went off and created the "flash sideways" some fans seem to think it created, Dr. Linus and dad would have talked about how they escaped the island after such a terrible calamity that caused the island to sink. But, no, they did not...they just left the Darmah Initiative. It all sounded routine and normal. Because after the reset our heroes never go back to start the chain of events that leads to Ben being shot and becoming the leader of the Others.
The more fans refute my theory (and I've posted this elsewhere) the more I see that I am right. I had this theory a few weeks into this season and everything that has happened in the off island flashes verifies my thinking. I will be VERY shocked if this isn’t the way things turn out on the show.
03-15-10 | 06:12 PM
#278
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
When dealing with the time paradoxes in this show I keep going back to the conversation Miles had with Hurley. Since they were traveling in time, wherever they were was their present. So if Jack's timeline is singular (meaning even though he went from 2007 to 1977 it was one time line for him as well as it was for Miles and Hurley) and he is the last man standing after the battle and MIB makes a deal with him and that deal involves sending him back to 2004 with the "reset" the time line remains singular. It just is a bit off from what we've seen before because in this new timeline the plane flies right over where the island was, they never go back to 1977 in this new timeline, and the events don't start all over again.
And I never read Dark Tower.
I also think Jacob was evil. I just watched the death of Jeremey Bentham episode again last night and Widmore said if Locke didn't go back to the island the wrong side would win. I think Jacob's side is the "wrong side."
03-15-10 | 07:41 PM
#279
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
All Widmore is saying is that the wrong side will win......who is to say that Widmore is good? Or Bad? We don't know for sure.
03-15-10 | 08:33 PM
#280
Moderator
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
When dealing with the time paradoxes in this show I keep going back to the conversation Miles had with Hurley. Since they were traveling in time, wherever they were was their present. So if Jack's timeline is singular (meaning even though he went from 2007 to 1977 it was one time line for him as well as it was for Miles and Hurley) and he is the last man standing after the battle and MIB makes a deal with him and that deal involves sending him back to 2004 with the "reset" the time line remains singular. It just is a bit off from what we've seen before because in this new timeline the plane flies right over where the island was, they never go back to 1977 in this new timeline, and the events don't start all over again.
For example, take Back to the Future. Marty's experiences are singular, but when he goes back to 1955 he creates a brand new universe which is slightly different than the one he came from. The old universe is still there, only Doc is dead and Marty disappeared in 1985.
Same with this show. Some "event" (Jacob, bomb, whatever) causes the island to sink, creating a new universe.
03-15-10 | 08:59 PM
#281
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
There's still two universes.
For example, take Back to the Future. Marty's experiences are singular, but when he goes back to 1955 he creates a brand new universe which is slightly different than the one he came from. The old universe is still there, only Doc is dead and Marty disappeared in 1985.
Same with this show. Some "event" (Jacob, bomb, whatever) causes the island to sink, creating a new universe.
For example, take Back to the Future. Marty's experiences are singular, but when he goes back to 1955 he creates a brand new universe which is slightly different than the one he came from. The old universe is still there, only Doc is dead and Marty disappeared in 1985.
Same with this show. Some "event" (Jacob, bomb, whatever) causes the island to sink, creating a new universe.
03-15-10 | 08:59 PM
#282
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
The more i think about it, Clahorns theory is pretty solid. The episode "Sundown" . The man in black offers Sayid anything he wants - he says that he could have anything in the entire world. Sayid replies that the only thing he ever wanted died in his arms and that he will never see it again and the man in black asks him what if he could. I dont think MIB means taking her form like other dead characters in the past. This is going to be a deal MIB makes with each candidate.
03-15-10 | 11:07 PM
#283
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Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
There's still two universes.
For example, take Back to the Future. Marty's experiences are singular, but when he goes back to 1955 he creates a brand new universe which is slightly different than the one he came from. The old universe is still there, only Doc is dead and Marty disappeared in 1985.
Same with this show. Some "event" (Jacob, bomb, whatever) causes the island to sink, creating a new universe.
For example, take Back to the Future. Marty's experiences are singular, but when he goes back to 1955 he creates a brand new universe which is slightly different than the one he came from. The old universe is still there, only Doc is dead and Marty disappeared in 1985.
Same with this show. Some "event" (Jacob, bomb, whatever) causes the island to sink, creating a new universe.
03-17-10 | 03:09 AM
#285
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Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
Calhoun07 has it right. there are not multiple timelines. the creators have said no new mysteries this season. alternate timelines would create more questions. by showing "season seven" they are living up to their pledge to give answers, they are just doing it Lost style. They said they wanted to show two timelines. One where the bomb went off and one where it didn't. Which they are. The stuff on the island is what happens if the bomb goes off. Juliet sealed the "energy" in with the bomb blast. The hatch had another purpose before. How do you build a containment facility for something that you didn't even know you were going to release?
The changes in the flash sideways show the lives of everyone without Jacob. Sawyers life is the same up until the point where Jacob visits him. After that...things are slightly different. This holds true for all of the changes we've seen so far.
It's not a matter of good and evil. It's a matter of two different philosophies: free will vs. pre-destination. Jacob is predestination and Smokey is clearly on the side of free will. We've seen this theme many times along the way. It was the core of the Jack/Locke conflict in early episodes. I think the idea of Good with a capital G versus Evil with a capital E is too simplistic for Lost. Few of the bad guys are all bad and the same holds true for the supposed "good guys."
The changes in the flash sideways show the lives of everyone without Jacob. Sawyers life is the same up until the point where Jacob visits him. After that...things are slightly different. This holds true for all of the changes we've seen so far.
It's not a matter of good and evil. It's a matter of two different philosophies: free will vs. pre-destination. Jacob is predestination and Smokey is clearly on the side of free will. We've seen this theme many times along the way. It was the core of the Jack/Locke conflict in early episodes. I think the idea of Good with a capital G versus Evil with a capital E is too simplistic for Lost. Few of the bad guys are all bad and the same holds true for the supposed "good guys."
Last edited by soulflykc; 03-17-10 at 03:11 AM. Reason: i added a "don't" where i didn't need one
03-17-10 | 09:51 AM
#286
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Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
Yeah, after last night episode I'm starting to believe more in Calhoun's theory.
It was almost spoon fed that they were going that way.
It was almost spoon fed that they were going that way.
03-17-10 | 07:22 PM
#287
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
Not sure what year Jacob touched Jack, but I'd reckon it was sometime after his son would have been born.
Not sure about Locke, though. Jacob touched him after the fall that crippled him, so had Jacob not touched him, he'd be dead. At any rate, I don't think that the characters fates in the sideways deal diverged from the moment Jacob touched them.
03-18-10 | 02:06 AM
#288
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
I rewatched this episode again. Loved Ben's "because he's the only one who will have me ..." speech. As I watched this scene, two thoughts came to mind:
1. Michael Emerson is a damn good actor
2. Ilana is pretty freakin' hot
1. Michael Emerson is a damn good actor
2. Ilana is pretty freakin' hot
03-18-10 | 07:13 PM
#289
Re: Lost -- "Dr. Linus" -- 3/9/10
Jacob didn't touch Sayid until after he came back from the island, same for Hurley.
Not sure what year Jacob touched Jack, but I'd reckon it was sometime after his son would have been born.
Not sure about Locke, though. Jacob touched him after the fall that crippled him, so had Jacob not touched him, he'd be dead. At any rate, I don't think that the characters fates in the sideways deal diverged from the moment Jacob touched them.
Not sure what year Jacob touched Jack, but I'd reckon it was sometime after his son would have been born.
Not sure about Locke, though. Jacob touched him after the fall that crippled him, so had Jacob not touched him, he'd be dead. At any rate, I don't think that the characters fates in the sideways deal diverged from the moment Jacob touched them.
