DVD Talk Forum - Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)

- TV Talk (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk-14/)

- - Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/569585-lost-final-season-substitute-02-16-10-a.html)

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

So Kwon is the daughter then?

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofee girl (Post 10010773)

From another forum someone noticed that inside the box Locke was carrying out from his job after he was fired was a figurine that looked like a polar bear. Others said it was a yellow lab. What do you think?

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displa...-1523-205.html

Click on the image for an enlargement.

And a close up:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/481...00219at102.png

Where did Locke take that pic? Looks like he's on the island and he isn't paralyzed.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 10011209)

So Kwon is the daughter then?

Wouldn't the kids who were conceived post-crash (Ju-Yeon and Charlie Hume) have been wiped out by the reset?

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 10011364)

Wouldn't the kids who were conceived post-crash (Ju-Yeon and Charlie Hume) have been wiped out by the reset?

I was wondering about this too. I guess they would have to be, can't recall any proof that they are around...

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 10011364)

Wouldn't the kids who were conceived post-crash (Ju-Yeon and Charlie Hume) have been wiped out by the reset?

There was no reset in 2007. The bomb failed to go off, baby Kwon is still alive and kicking somewhere in the world and toddler Aaron is with grandma still.

In the side flash where the reset was successful (apparently, anyway) Aaron was just born and if Baby Kwon isn't born it doesn't matter any more because the island is underwater and her name was never written on the wall, or the wall is underwater too.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by outcastja (Post 10011240)

Where did Locke take that pic? Looks like he's on the island and he isn't paralyzed.

I think that might be a reference to the commune he was on.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by outcastja (Post 10011240)

Where did Locke take that pic? Looks like he's on the island and he isn't paralyzed.

It's from his desk... note the green screen for the picture of him and Helen.

Version one:

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/ima...b3f1a10d7d7129

Version two:

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displa...537&fullsize=1

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Wow. They have to green screen a simple photograph? Couldn't get a lackey in the graphics department to whip up a photo and print it out?

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 10012169)

Wow. They have to green screen a simple photograph? Couldn't get a lackey in the graphics department to whip up a photo and print it out?

I think they're going to play back that scene multiple times with a different picture each time (as the timeline changes?). Best way to do that is to film the scene once and then green screen the modified picture.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 10012247)

You're joking, right? That's way too subtle. Did they even make a point of showing that picture around the scene of him getting fired? Because I sure don't remember that.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 10012247)

That, or they shot the scene a couple of days before Katey Sagal's stuff was filmed - hence, they didn't have the picture they needed, so they green-screened it in later. Until this episode, her last appearance on the show (not counting possible archive footage moments) was season 2.

(Yes, it might be easier to have already photoshopped a version of it. I'm just offering a possible real-world solution.)

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenPion (Post 10010317)

What he's saying, I think, is that another event that hasn't happened on island yet is what causes the no-crash time-line to exist. Not the detonation of the Hydrogen bomb. But whatever that is... it hasn't happened yet. And the "alternate" time-line is a successful reset for the characters but the Losties on the island still need to do something huge to make it happen.

I'm not convinced this is what's going on myself, but it's a good theory nonetheless.

Basically that is what I am thinking. I think that at the end of the 2007 timeline, one "side" wins the war and the island is sunk, and the island ceases to exist resetting everyone at that point. Since there is no longer any influence on their lives by Jacob (who may actually be the evil one), their entire lives are subtly different but still destined to interact with the other Losties. I think the real twist for the last couple episodes will be Desmond who I think will, unlike the rest, retain complete memories of both timelines.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Yup, these Lost threads are awesome. You post something that you think is just idle chatter and your post gets analyzed in minute detail, with definitive counter-arguments presented, with explanations of why you're definitely wrong, and with other explanation of why you're definitely right, insulted, beaten, bloodied, and finally thrown to the mercy of a rabid polar bear that is where it has no right to be but that in fact turns out to be a cuddly little yellow lab puppy. All done in green screen.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofee girl (Post 10011932)

Locke and his father look mighty happy together in that 2nd pic!

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flave (Post 10012247)

Way too involved for a split second shot that is quite possible no one would give a moments thought to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGibFen (Post 10012313)

That, or they shot the scene a couple of days before Katey Sagal's stuff was filmed - hence, they didn't have the picture they needed, so they green-screened it in later.

That's more of what I was thinking. I don't recall what episode or when that shot is from, but it's quite possible it was filmed before she was even cast in the role. It still seems like a lot of work for a split second shot of a single photo in the background that people may or may not even notice.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 10012268)

You're joking, right? That's way too subtle. Did they even make a point of showing that picture around the scene of him getting fired? Because I sure don't remember that.

You'll think it's funny when you're watching this show from space!

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenPion (Post 10010317)

I thought that too, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a big fucking bait-and-switch from the writers. The premiere, after all showed both timelines beginning right after a recap of the final few minutes of the Season 5 finale, suggesting each was 'what happens next' after the bomb detonated. I don't see how that presentation could really be taken any other way. It's like, "we'll show you two pieces that 'fit' together because we edited them that way, but they don't actually fit together, and we never tell you that but you're supposed to be smart enough to read our minds."

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardercore (Post 10012743)

It really wouldn't be that much different than the "flashbacks" that turned out to be "flashforwards", ie: "Kate, we have to go back..."

If we've learned anything from Lost is that you can't take timelines at what first appear to be face value.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

A Christianity Today writer plays around with names, numbers, and Psalms:

Quote:

A lot of Lost fans noticed in last week's episode, "The Substitute," that Jack's name in the cave was assigned the number 23. (Warning: Don't read if you didn't see that episode.) The connection to Psalm 23 seems almost too easy for a guy with the surname Shephard.

Ever since I saw that, I've wondered, "Do each of the names in that cave relate to their respective number's psalm?"

Well, this is no exact science--and it's totally stretching. I mean, the producers didn't sit down 6 years ago and assign psalms to various characters. I know. But still, this is a fun little exercise, right? And so, I tried to see what I could discover. And while it may just be meaningless fun, I also stumbled on some very intriguing things--including a possible clue about who may replace Jacob.

While Jack is the only candidate with his name (or a form of it) showing up in his or her psalm, playing with the meaning of names proved to be interesting. For instance, Hurley Reyes was given the number 8. Reyes means “like a king.” Psalm 8 says God's name is majestic. It continues: "What is man that you are mindful of him...You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. You made him ruler over the works of your hands."

The surname Locke means "woods; fortified place; pond." Locke's assigned number is 4 and Psalm 4 is all about finding a fortified place: "Answer me when I call to you, O my righteous God. Give me relief from my distress. ... I will lie down and sleep in peace, for you alone, O LORD, make me dwell in safety.” It is certainly true that John Locke always searched for a place of relief--and found it on the island. More poignantly, it seems that the Man in Black also found a fortified place within the identity of Locke.

Also, with Locke I want to point out that Psalm 4 echoes this character's long search of direction and cries for answers. And it could point to his continued faith in the island as a false God: "How long will you love delusions and seek false gods?"

The meaning of Sayid's name does not seem to correspond with his psalm, number 16. But it is still fascinating. That Psalm discusses eternal life, something Sayid has been all about this season. Psalm 16 reads: "you will not abandon me to the grave." In fact, Sayid's Season 6 worries that his eternal home will not be very pleasant due to his sinfulness sounds a lot like Psalm 16:2: "Apart from you I have no good thing." (Also, it should be noted that the boy's name Jarrah means "God gives sweetness; honey." And honey is a key part of Numbers 16. Coincidence? Yah, probably.)

The last two names I looked at didn't pan out but one provided the most thought-provoking insight of my little exercise. Let's start with Sun and Jin Kwon. Their surname means "authority." The corresponding psalm, Psalm 42, isn't about authority. If we divide the two numbers, Psalm 2 is about God's authority but Psalm 4 doesn't seem to connect to anything. Any thoughts? Maybe this married couples' first names are significant here. Jin means "gold" and sun means "goodness." Still, I got nothing.

Now, we get to the finding I am most giddy about: James "Sawyer" Ford. No, I don't really see any connection between him or his name to Psalm 15. I mean, the only thing that comes close is the line "Lord, who may dwell in your sanctuary?" because, well, Sawyer didn't want to dwell in the sanctuary and split.

However, what was most interesting about this exercise was learning the meaning of the boys' name James. I knew it was a variant of the name Jacob, but I didn't know that it means "he who supplants." Oooh, as in he could supplant Jacob? Did you know that?

What you think? I need your help. Did I miss anything? Can you make any scriptural connections I missed? Any name meanings I didn't look into?

Does any of this tell us anything?

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ct...me-1.html#more

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

I love how they give the warning AFTER the spoiler. Hey, thanks!

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thmonkey (Post 10012746)

When have any of the major plotlines of Lost been figured out within the first few episodes of the new season? I discredit the theory simply because anyone, and everyone, came up with it after LA X. It's just too simple for this show. The Anti-Razor if you will. ;)

Not a bad theory though.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

That Christianity Today article was kind of interesting but mostly lame. Talk about reaching.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by calhoun07 (Post 10013191)

That Christianity Today article was kind of interesting but mostly lame. Talk about reaching.

The James thing is pretty interesting.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

Just watched this one last time getting ready for the new episode and thought of something that others may have already mentioned. Can't remember. MiB tells Sawyer the names are possible recruitments to replace the now dead Jacob who was protecting the island from nothing. Before that he tells him that he is trapped and that he used to be a man just like him. At the statue, we saw him tell Ben he wanted to go home.

I think the MiB is looking for a replacement for himself (not Jacob) so he can finally be free from Smokey and the burden of 'protecting the island,' all these years. I don't think the MiB can leave the island until Smokey is transferred to someone else. Maybe Jacob is the reason why the MiB has Smokey inside of him and that's why he wanted to kill him.

I think Jacob was all by himself on the island as Smokey when the Black Rock crashed. The MiB and Richard were the only survivors and Jacob transferred Smokey to the MiB as Richard went to the Temple. The MiB's resentment festered for years. I guess the guilt of what Jacob did made him leave the island (via the wheel I'm guessing) and help recruit the passengers) for the MiB's replacement since he couldn't leave himself.

Still, I think a previous poster was correct when this series will end with a new 'Jacob' and a new 'MiB' sitting on the beach watching as a new ship comes in. Probably Sawyer and Jack.

Re: Lost: The Final Season -- "The Substitute" -- 02/16/10

The writers have said the Jack-Locke rivalry will come back in a big way, and I can't help but think it will be MiB-Locke with Jack as the final/chosen/whatever 'candidate' for Man in White. Though this time Jack has a newly affirmed faith and 'Locke' is the one who wants to go home.