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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
If the argument is that a show can't succeed without a good lead-in, how is that lead-in supposed to develop an audience? When is it okay for someone to just start watching a channel without being interested in what was on before?
With this argument - one could argue that Jay didn't have a good enough lead-in at 10:00 to lead-in to the news. At some point - one must stop playing the blame game and trying to point fingers at other's for their failure. I love Conan. He'll do great wherever he ends up. He failed on the Tonight Show. No excuses. What kind of a fucking world do we live in? "NO, seriously, it's SOMEONE else's fault!" |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by SonOfAStu
(Post 9968562)
If the argument is that a show can't succeed without a good lead-in, how is that lead-in supposed to develop an audience? When is it okay for someone to just start watching a channel without being interested in what was on before?
With this argument - one could argue that Jay didn't have a good enough lead-in at 10:00 to lead-in to the news. At some point - one must stop playing the blame game and trying to point fingers at other's for their failure. I love Conan. He'll do great wherever he ends up. He failed on the Tonight Show. No excuses. What kind of a fucking world do we live in? "NO, seriously, it's SOMEONE else's fault!" |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Maybe Leno would have had better ratings if Conan's show was better and all the people kept watching NBC until 10:00PM the next day.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by SonOfAStu
(Post 9968644)
Maybe Leno would have had better ratings if Conan's show was better and all the people kept watching NBC until 10:00PM the next day.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by RichC2
(Post 9968682)
When you word it that way, it makes me think of the person that's really at fault here: Jimmy Fallon.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by RichC2
(Post 9968682)
When you word it that way, it makes me think of the person that's really at fault here: Jimmy Fallon.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
By and large, people are creatures of routine. They watch the same channels and the same shows day after day. But Jay's show was such a misstep and so few of those people watched him (I believe they actively changed the channel when he came on, as I seem to remember hearing that other network ratings increased in his timeslot) that it affected everything that followed, including some powerful affiliates.
The fact is that in any other situation, a failing show like Jay's at 9 PM on NBC would have simply been cancelled. It shouldn't have had much affect on Conan. But because NBC can't write a contract that doesn't completely screw them out of hundreds of millions of dollars if their "innovative" plans fall through, we're stuck with a big reset to 7 months ago, with a whole lot of negative publicity along for the ride. I can honestly say I would have walked away if I were Jay Leno. At this point, money is meaningless. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
From People:
Jay Leno Felt Sucker-Punched by Jimmy Kimmel Sharing his feelings publicly for the first time about the behind-the-scenes machinations that eventually led to this month's NBC late-night debacle, Jay Leno admitted on Thursday that being asked six years ago to step aside so Conan O'Brien could take over the Tonight Show came as a crushing blow. "It broke my heart, it really did," the TV host, 59, said in an interview airing on Thursday's The Oprah Winfrey Show. "I was devastated." Leno said that NBC executives told him in 2004 that they didn't want to lose O'Brien and were going to ask him take over Leno's spot as host in 2009. "That was pretty shocking," Leno said. "I most certainly did," feel disrespected. Saying that the Tonight gig was a job "every comic aspires to," Leno told Winfrey he didn't think the move made much sense, as the show was still No. 1 in late night. Leno asked the brass to wait at least until he dropped in the ratings and then "that would be the reason" for the switch, but O'Brien's contract was due to expire and the powers-that-be didn't want him leaving the network. To explain the shakeup, Leno said, "I told a little white lie on the air," saying he was going to retire. "It made it easier that way." Had Plans to Jump Leno did plan to leave the network, he said, even asking to be let out of his contract so he could take his show elsewhere, but NBC declined and, in fall 2008, came up with the idea for The Jay Leno Show, in prime time. "I said, okay, let's try it." Not only did he love the job, he said, but it would be a way to keep his 175 show staffers employed. But the new show wasn't doing well, dropping 14 points in the ratings. "The show failed because it was basically doing a late-night talk show at 10 o'clock," said. "I was given enough time," he said, but, "I got fired this time because my show did not perform." Under O'Brien, however, The Tonight Show was doing much worse, falling 49 percent since the former Late Night host took over, Leno said. It was the ratings, Leno said, not a selfish move on his part, which prompted NBC to ask Leno to come back to his show on late-night TV. At the same time, they wanted to move O'Brien's show to midnight, a move Conan rejected and which touched off a firestorm of bad press against Leno. 'Sucker-Punched' by Kimmel In another candid admission, Leno said he was taken aback when Jimmy Kimmel took the opportunity to slam him during a Leno show appearance a few weeks ago. "I got sucker-punched," he said. Leno said he could have edited the interview, "but I said, ‘No. Put it out there. I walked into it.'" He said when you get hit, "You get right up again. You don't whine and complain." As for David Letterman, another late-night host who jumped into the fray with shots at Jay, Leno said it was only fair to punch back, as he did with a joke about Letterman's blackmail scandal. Though Winfrey (who has had her own testy moments with Letterman) said she thought it was beneath him, Leno responded that "I did one joke. I had a cheap shot thrown at me and I threw one cheap shot back." Leno also said he was surprised at all the attention the late-night war has generated and blasted NBC for the way in which they handled the negotiations, but doesn't blame himself for O'Brien losing his job. "It all comes down to numbers in show business," he said. "If the numbers had been there, this wouldn't have happened." Rebuilding Image Leno, who said the jabs he and O'Brien took at each other during the fallout was to be expected from two comedians, called O'Brien's finale a "great show." He said he doesn't feel any animosity, but, acknowledging that he has been portrayed as the bad guy, said when he returns to Tonight on March 1, "I'm going to work hard to rehabilitate that image." He said, "a lot of damage control" must take place, but he plans to "do good shows and not be bitter." He also hopes O'Brien does well elsewhere. "I hope Conan gets a job somewhere else and we all compete together. And the best man wins." |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
I'll admit that I have a much more positive image of Leno after reading that article. :shrug:
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by SonOfAStu
(Post 9968562)
If the argument is that a show can't succeed without a good lead-in, how is that lead-in supposed to develop an audience? When is it okay for someone to just start watching a channel without being interested in what was on before?
The fact is that a good lead-in helps a show succeed. Do you see the difference between those two statements? Jerry Seinfeld --one of Jay Leno's oldest and dearest friends, said that Conan's failure was Conan's fault because Conan didn't draw a large enough audience. But on his own very popular sitcom, Seinfeld did an entire episode about the phenomenon of "time-slot hits" --programs that succeed by riding the coat-tails of their lead-in's popularity. It would be wrong for Conan or any of his fans to claim that he would have succeeded if he had a stronger lead-in. He might have. But you cannot say he would have. However, it is absolutely 100% true that Conan was not given the time to build an audience for his Tonight Show that jay Leno was given. [7 months vs 2-3 years] And it is absolutely 100% true that Conan never benefited from any help that a strong lead-in might have provided, unlike Jay Leno who followed TV's most popular prime-time line-up for years. This is not finger-pointing, or anyone playing the blame game, this is simply identifying one of the reasons for Conan's failure to draw a large enough audience. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Groucho
(Post 9968996)
I'll admit that I have a much more positive image of Leno after reading that article. :shrug:
Spoiler:
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
So lying about retiring was "a little white lie?"
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Jay Leno has admitted he's a liar.
Now, the only question that remains is whether he is a gutless liar or a vindictive one. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Groucho
(Post 9968996)
I'll admit that I have a much more positive image of Leno after reading that article. :shrug:
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by Count Dooku
(Post 9969005)
But on his own very popular sitcom, Seinfeld did an entire episode about the phenomenon of "time-slot hits" --programs that succeed by riding the coat-tails of their lead-in's popularity.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Just watched Oprah. Ultimately, the 'bad guy' was NBC, for not giving Conan a bit more time to get his ratings up.
Certainly Jay is no wallflower, but he ultimately decided to do what 99% of any of us would do. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Didn't he also take a jab at Letterman during the Chelsea Handler "Hotel" room segment?
If so that was more than one joke against Letterman. Then again I don't blame Jay for fighting back, but he did more than one joke. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
With all eyes on Jay Leno, he sat down with Oprah Winfrey for his first interview since the blow-up over NBC's late-night lineup. While he admits having some regrets, Leno's deepest scars seem to stretch back to 2004 when NBC first announced Conan O'Brien would be taking over the show in 2009. "It broke my heart. It really did. I was devastated," Leno said. "This was the job that I had always wanted and this was the only job that ever mattered in show business, to me.... It was just like, why?"
Later in the interview, Leno refused to take blame for taking away Conan's dream. "This is an affiliate decision. Affiliates felt that the ratings were low. This was the first time in the 60-year history of 'The Tonight Show' that 'The Tonight Show' would have lost money. And that's what it comes down to. It's really just a matter of dollars and cents." Earlier this month, O'Brien walked away from the late-night institution when NBC executives announced that they wanted Leno to once again follow the local news and move O'Brien's 'Tonight Show' to 12:05 a.m. ET. Leno returns to 'The Tonight Show' March 1. According to Leno, NBC came to him and talked about the ratings, saying Conan and Leno were both down. NBC executives then assured him that he was a "valuable asset" and they were "75 percent sure" Conan would go for the revised plan, which would have had Leno doing a 30-minute show at 11:30 p.m. ET. Oprah grills Leno about why he didn't consult Conan before agreeing to the new plan. "It wasn't my place to call Conan," Leno said. "They made this offer to me. And I said, 'Do you think Conan will go for this?' And they said, 'We'll ask him tomorrow.' 'OK, let me know what happens.' And the next thingyou know, Conan had his article in the paper and that was that." Blaming NBC for the late night debacle, Leno adds, "Anything they did would have been better than this... If they had come in and shot everybody. It would have been 'Oh, people were murdered,' but at least it would have been a two-day story. NBC could not have handled it worse." Winfrey repeatedly asked why he didn't just retire. Leno says his decision was an "agonizing" one. "Maybe I'm doing something wrong. This many people are angry and upset over a television show... My show got canceled. They weren't happy with the other guy's show. They said, 'We want you to go back,' and I said, 'OK.' And this seemed to make a lot of people really upset. And I go, 'Well, who wouldn't take that job though? Who wouldn't do that?'" When media reports began turning Leno into the "bad guy" he felt cornered and confused, he told Oprah. "I never expected this to happen. People think you're behind the scenes, pulling strings," he added. "There's no strings to pull. I have a show that's been canceled. So why would I have any power to go, 'Oh, I want ['The Tonight Show']? Leno admits NBC is all about ratings though. "Well, if you look at where the [O'Brien 'Tonight Show'] ratings were, it was already destructive to the franchise," Leno replied. Leno also revealed that he hasn't been in touch with O'Brien since. "I haven't talked to him through all this. No. I haven't... it didn't seem appropriate." |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
What an asshole. Maybe Oprah should have asked if his ratings after 7 months were "destructive" to the franchise.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Leno says he doesn't know what he would have done differently?
How about telling NBC "NO, I'M NOT READY TO RETIRE IN 2009." He had five years to say those words. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Wow, Leno is more full of shit than I thought. What's scary is that he probably really believes what he's saying.
Let's assume that he & NBC are absolutely right that Conan's ratings are bad and they needed to do something because of it. Does that mean the only, or best, solution is to move Jay back to 11:30? Does it not also discount their roles in why his ratings are the way they are? My questions are rhetorical. The Jay Leno Show was announced in Dec. of '08 before Conan even took over The Tonight Show. This effectively screwed Conan by having Jay still compete with essentially the same show for the same talent. Moreover, most individuals do not watch multiple late-night talk shows. How many people just watched Jay caught the news through weather or sports and turned in for the night? If they can admit it was a mistake to put Jay's show there at 9 how can they not admit they set Conan up to fail? Is it not part and parcel? Why not come up with a better or different solution to see if it helps? Put Jay on 2 nights a week instead of 5. Move Jay to 9 instead of 10. You know why none of that happened. Because hand-shake Jay Leno had a contract that guaranteed it wouldn't. He fucked NBC and Conan by abstensia for taking his job. Jay move to 8 - nope - pay me $150 million. Jay your cancelled - fine pay me $150 million. There were no other options because Jay would give them no other options. And let's face it, if you are NBC are you going to openly advertise the fact you made such a outrageously idiotic deal? Hell no. You'll take the shit-storm that comes with forcing Conan out (which I'm not convinced now that's totally what NBC would have liked to have done) over the bigger debacle that would have been if you had to eat $150 million & let Leno walk. What a horrific gamble to have lost on. I mean, hats off to Leno for getting NBC to agree to such a deal, but that doesn't make you a sympathetic figure being played by corporate. Sucker punched by Kimmel? Seriously? The guy went out and did his entire show mocking you. You didn't think to ask him how he really felt before you scheduled him for the 10 @ 10? Was it not obvious? No, Jay Leno is just the innocent victim being blamed and attacked unfairly. I didn't mind Leno before. I found him boring but he didn't bother me. Now, I think he's a class-A douche. |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Originally Posted by ScissorPuppy
(Post 9969102)
Didn't he also take a jab at Letterman during the Chelsea Handler "Hotel" room segment?
If so that was more than one joke against Letterman. Then again I don't blame Jay for fighting back, but he did more than one joke. Just say, "Yeah I should have taken the high-road and I try to" but he minimizes any of his actions so it becomes ok. I told "one little white lie". I told "one little beneath the belt joke." |
Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
Leno should have told the brass in 2004 he hasn't ready to step down, but as big of a douche as he can be, I can plainly see this isn't his doing. O'Brien didn't get the ratings; it's that simple. As Leno just said, if he had, none of this would have happened. And who in their right mind would turn down the offer to host The Tonight Show? Of course Leno took the job back. I'm not saying I'm pro-Leno or pro-Conan. This is show business, the only things that matters to anyone making decisions are the numbers.
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)
I don't buy a word of what he's saying. He's had two weeks to plan this Oprah interview and have his publicists coach him on damage control and that's just what he's doing. I wouldn't expect him to say anything other than things that will directly contribute to making him look like the guy who got screwed. The fact of the matter is, he's been involved in two very controversial takeovers of the Tonight show. Are we really supposed to believe that he's had nothing to do with it?
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