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NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

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NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Old 01-19-10, 01:51 AM
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NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

See original post here regarding this clusterfuck:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/567...ncel-leno.html

To recap, Leno is 3-1 against the competition: Carson, Letterman, and Conan.

Jay, however, would like to remind us that he is a mere pawn of NBC and is just going with the flow. Conan, not wanting to destroy the Tonight Show any worse than it was during Jay's tenure, refused to go with that flow and instead told NBC to shove it. Most of the internet is with Coco, while a large (but as-of-yet unconfirmed) portion of the real world is behind Jay. Also, Conan's vocal minority is VERY vocal.

Things we've learned so far:

Jimmy Kimmel does a great Leno.

Letterman is enjoying the Hell out of the fact that he can finally let loose on Leno.

Norm MacDonald and Howard Stern were right all along.

No one gives a damn about Carson Daly.

Some questions that will be answered soon-ish:

Will Conan leave the Tonight Show for greener pastures?

Will Jay retake the title of King of Late Night?

Will Fallon ever come out from hiding under his desk?

Will anyone ever care about Carson Daly?

And, the saga continues...

Last edited by Darknite39; 01-19-10 at 02:10 AM. Reason: elaboration
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Old 01-19-10, 02:35 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

I know this was posted in the closed thread, but I think it bears repeating:


Last edited by Mr. Salty; 01-19-10 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 01-19-10, 03:19 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Here's Jay's new version of events from his 1/18 show



Again, Jay just does whatever NBC asks him to do.
He never has any demands --or even any plans.
He makes all his deals with just a handshake.
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Old 01-19-10, 04:21 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

What Jay seems to overlook in this explanation is that he has free will in this matter to tell the NBC execs to pound sand and walk away from the situation. That would be the class move, imo.
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Old 01-19-10, 07:34 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Conan or Letterman should do a spoof on "Jaywalking" where they ask questions and then splice in some of these quotes from Jay and show how ludicrous his responses are. Call it "JayTalking". Royalties not necessary.
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Old 01-19-10, 07:55 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

What does Norm McDonald and Howard Sterm were right all along mean? I don't follow this type of stuff closely, but I assume it has something to do with events back when Letterman and Leno were contending for the Tonight Show?
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Old 01-19-10, 08:17 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Superman07 View Post
What does Norm McDonald and Howard Sterm were right all along mean? I don't follow this type of stuff closely, but I assume it has something to do with events back when Letterman and Leno were contending for the Tonight Show?
I don't know on the Norm McDonald but Stern went on Conan a few years back and essentially said he didn't believe Jay would go through with the transition.
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Old 01-19-10, 08:50 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
I don't know on the Norm McDonald but Stern went on Conan a few years back and essentially said he didn't believe Jay would go through with the transition.
He also stated that Leno would fail at 10pm and that they would move him back to 11:30 and Conan would get screwed.
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Old 01-19-10, 08:53 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Jack Straw View Post
What Jay seems to overlook in this explanation is that he has free will in this matter to tell the NBC execs to pound sand and walk away from the situation. That would be the class move, imo.
The class move would be to put his entire crew out on the street, and for what? Because it would allow Conan to continue doing his show despite his failure in the ratings?
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Old 01-19-10, 08:58 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by wmansir View Post
The class move would be to put his entire crew out on the street, and for what? Because it would allow Conan to continue doing his show despite his failure in the ratings?
Leno's show is the failure (not to mention, basically the Tonight Show at 10pm). Conan hasn't been given a chance because of the poor lead-in from Jay/Local News.

Hell, it took Leno forever to top Dave in the ratings and that only happened when Hugh Grant was on the show after his blowjob.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:04 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Every Tuesday new songs come out for the Rock Band video game. There are people out there that buy everything and record videos early in the morning for the rest of us to make informed decisions on whether or not to purchase based on how fun it looks or how it sounds in the game.

Today, I noticed the guitarist and singer of this band are sporting new shirts (And, yes, the guitarist has always been modeled after Conan O'Brien anyway)


Last edited by pinata242; 01-19-10 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:19 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by badlieut View Post
He also stated that Leno would fail at 10pm and that they would move him back to 11:30 and Conan would get screwed.
When did he say this and is there a link to a vid or something?
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Old 01-19-10, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by badlieut View Post
Conan hasn't been given a chance because of the poor lead-in from Jay/Local News.
NBC is currently in fourth place, nothing on the network gets a good lead-in.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:30 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

I hope to God this isn't true, from TMZ:

Conan O'Brien is losing "The Tonight Show" but he'll be getting a $32.5 million consolation prize courtesy of NBC ... sources tell TMZ.

In return, we've learned Conan has agreed to sit on the bench until September. Translation -- he can't host another show until the fall.

In addition to the $32.5 mil, we've learned NBC is also paying severance to Conan's "Tonight Show" employees. In all, we're told NBC's payout is around $40 million.

But Conan probably won't see close to the $32.5 mil. Under the deal, any money Conan makes during the remaining contract period with NBC will offset the network's obligation. So, if Fox were to make a deal with Conan and pay him $25 mil during the NBC contract period, Conan would only score $7.5 mil from NBC.

One well-placed NBC source told us something surprising -- looks like NBC may keep its intellectual property rights. So Conan can't take his creations -- such as Triumph the Insult Comic Dog and the Masturbating Bear -- to his next gig.

We're told the Conan/NBC deal still isn't completely done, but it's very close.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:31 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by badlieut View Post
Leno's show is the failure (not to mention, basically the Tonight Show at 10pm). Conan hasn't been given a chance because of the poor lead-in from Jay/Local News.

Hell, it took Leno forever to top Dave in the ratings and that only happened when Hugh Grant was on the show after his blowjob.
As the graph in the previous thread showed, Conan's ratings were tanking well before Leno's show was even on the air, and I believe that graph was the 18-49 Demo, which is more favorable to Conan than total viewership.

As for Leno's start, I tried to find some numbers for that period but could not. The entire landscape of TV was different then, but it would be interesting to see some numbers.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:37 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

I hate Jay Leno, and always have. And I've always loved Conan. From his days as a writer on SNL, he's been one of my favorite comedians.

That being said, I don't see how anyone can try to sugar coat the failure of Conan's Tonight Show. Regardless of his lead in - he's losing in ratings to Letterman. Jay was number one for years and years and years. NBC knows that they will again have the number one show by bringing Jay back. They gave Conan a shot and he couldn't beat Letterman. Should he have been given more time? Why? The sponsors aren't going to pay based on what ratings he might be able to pull in someday with a better lead in.

Sorry Conan. I'll watch you wherever you land, but you had your chance with the Tonight Show.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:43 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by SonOfAStu View Post
I hate Jay Leno, and always have. And I've always loved Conan. From his days as a writer on SNL, he's been one of my favorite comedians.

That being said, I don't see how anyone can try to sugar coat the failure of Conan's Tonight Show. Regardless of his lead in - he's losing in ratings to Letterman. Jay was number one for years and years and years. NBC knows that they will again have the number one show by bringing Jay back. They gave Conan a shot and he couldn't beat Letterman. Should he have been given more time? Why? The sponsors aren't going to pay based on what ratings he might be able to pull in someday with a better lead in.

Sorry Conan. I'll watch you wherever you land, but you had your chance with the Tonight Show.
If Jay's poor ratings are the reason that affiliates local news have poor ratings, then the local news' poor ratings are the reason that Conan had low ratings. Look, if NBC was the powerhouse network they were a decade ago and Conan's ratings tanked I'd understand, but the whole network sucks and sucks hard.

And I will put money on Letterman keeping the #1 spot when Jay's Tonight Show reemerges. People didn't watch Jay at 10pm, and now there's this undercurrent of anger towards him. People have switched to Letterman, Jay will be #2 from here on out. And of course NBC won't have a problem with that.

Last edited by chuckd21; 01-19-10 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:46 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

When is the last time NBC had the #1 shows at 10:00? Did they have the #1 shows leading into the local news when Jay was consistently #1? Or is it possible that a large brainless section of America likes Jay and will turn the f'ing channel to his show at 11:30, but not when it's competing with something they'd rather watch at 10:00?

Leno's 10:00 show was losing to BETTER SHOWS. Conan's Tonight Show was losing to a WEAKER Letterman show.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:58 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Conan wasn't given a chance and there is no argument against that. His ratings were going down in the summer before Leno started, but that's because he had no lead in and people some of the people who were curious to see the new tonight show tuned out as the show went on. That happens to pretty much every new show.

As the new season started so did Leno, so there was no point in time where Conan was given NBC's regular schedule as a lead in. There is no way of knowing what his ratings would have been without Leno but the point is Conan was never given the chance to see how he would do in those circumstances.

Having said that there is no doubt that Leno at 1135 will do better than Conan at 1135. Leno is the more valuable talent so it would be smarter for NBC to keep him than to keep Conan. NBC screwed up in 2004 and this is just fallout from that decision.

At the end of the day though if Conan leaves it is really good news for everyone. The only downside is Conan doesn't get a show called the Tonight Show at 1135 on NBC and may be off the air til September. The upside is Fox will get a late night talk show. Conan will get a show on a more compatible network in an earlier time slot with a bigger lead in. NBC will have to make more programming for their 10 o'clock hour resulting in more jobs and more choices. So we get 5 hours of new programming and lose 5 hours of syndicated comedies on FOX. That sounds like good news to me.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:58 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by SonOfAStu View Post
I hate Jay Leno, and always have. And I've always loved Conan. From his days as a writer on SNL, he's been one of my favorite comedians.

That being said, I don't see how anyone can try to sugar coat the failure of Conan's Tonight Show. Regardless of his lead in - he's losing in ratings to Letterman. Jay was number one for years and years and years. NBC knows that they will again have the number one show by bringing Jay back. They gave Conan a shot and he couldn't beat Letterman. Should he have been given more time? Why? The sponsors aren't going to pay based on what ratings he might be able to pull in someday with a better lead in.

Sorry Conan. I'll watch you wherever you land, but you had your chance with the Tonight Show.
Why? Because it took Leno two full years to overtake Letterman. Giving Conan seven months is a joke.

By the logic of "lower ratings = cancel", why didn't CBS fire Letterman for not having the highest ratings? And this during a time when CBS was frequently the number one network overall.

Also we all hear that Conan had lower ratings, but do those factor in things like DVRs and clips watched online, which Conan's younger, more tech-savvy viewers would be more likely to utilize? Or is NBC going strictly by the Nielsen ratings and nothing else?
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Old 01-19-10, 10:02 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

DVRs and On-line clips don't sell commercials.
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Old 01-19-10, 10:03 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by badlieut View Post
Leno's show is the failure (not to mention, basically the Tonight Show at 10pm). Conan hasn't been given a chance because of the poor lead-in from Jay/Local News. .
Not only that, NBC as a network has never been this down. The new shows they launched this year have all been ratings duds. How is Conan suppose to retain/keep/grow viewers when everything from 8-11 sucks?
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Old 01-19-10, 10:03 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
When did he say this and is there a link to a vid or something?
He was saying it on his show consistently even before Leno went to 10 o'clock. As far as links go, I don't know if you'd find one as it was more of a mention multiple times a week than one particular defining moment.

Here he is in 2006 on the Conan show warning him about Leno ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voCiTdBL8nc
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Old 01-19-10, 10:04 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by SonOfAStu View Post
When is the last time NBC had the #1 shows at 10:00? Did they have the #1 shows leading into the local news when Jay was consistently #1?
ER is the only 10pm show I can think of.
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Old 01-19-10, 10:05 AM
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Re: NBC: let's see how low we can go (Conan thread, part 2)

Originally Posted by chuckd21 View Post
And I will put money on Letterman keeping the #1 spot when Jay's Tonight Show reemerges. People didn't watch Jay at 10pm, and now there's this undercurrent of anger towards him. People have switched to Letterman, Jay will be #2 from here on out. And of course NBC won't have a problem with that.
I think Jay will go back to #1 pretty quickly. His 10 o'clock show consistently pulled 4.5 to 6 million viewers - not good for prime time, but great for late night. He still has a big fanbase.

As for any undercurrent of anger over this - most people really don't give a shit if Jay "screwed" Conan over. They'll tune back in.
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