wirefan

Notice the wording... he'll be allowed on air prior to when his contract was to expire, but there is no mention of when. I'd imagine there is still some non-compete timetable in the agreement and Conan can thank Leno for his help in the shell game with NBC with the 30min "Pre-tonight Show" designed to get Conan to quit instead of having to fire him.

Again this is why Leno is the douchebag - if he just had the honesty and integrity to say I want the Tonight Show back, NBC would have been forced to fire Conan and Conan would have been free to pursue other interests.

And if people think NBC would have canned the 10pm Leno show without having Leno lined up to take back over the 11:30 slot, then they are nuts. There is no way they would have canned the 10pm show and risked losing Leno to another network - the arrangement with Leno for the 30min show had to have been worked out prior to them announcing the 10pm cancellation. The only risk in the plan was of Conan accepting the shit being forced on him with the 12:05 show (which was never really a risk) - and the obvious backup plan for that was pushing the "Tonight Show" back another 30min to 12:35 once Leno got angry with only doing 30minutes. And if that didn't work they could push the Tonight Show until after Fallon, after Carson Daly and so on.. until Conan got the message.

WCChiCubsFan

You really are unhinged.

My comments to Dooku that you responded to were one in a long string of posts. Long story short Dooku painted Conan as some sort of saint who would not make a business decision because he wanted a certain result if it would hurt others. We disagree, I think Conan is like any other successful entertainer, he has an ego, that doesn’t make him and egomaniac control freak, that drives him to make decisions that are what he believes are in his best interest.

Your other comments, I recognize them as simply projection. You should really seek professional help if possible.

WCChiCubsFan

I enjoy Conan's comedy. Do I think he has an ego like any other successful entertainer? I certainly do. Do I see having an ego and the drive to succeed as a character flaw which would make me think less of them? No, having an ego and the drive is what makes successful people successful.

btbrossard

This is getting better all the time...

Darknite39

Yeah, really. We don't want to get this thread locked. I'd much prefer to have all of the links and info in one place.

Count Dooku

I think that's a mis-characterization, or a misunderstanding, of what I was saying, so I will say it (I hope) more clearly, and then drop it because I won't be doing this over the weekend.

If Conan were unselfish and ego-free, he would have taken NBC's offer of the 12:05 show.
He didn't take that offer.
Some of his reasons were selfish --he thought it would be demeaning to him and damaging to his career.
And another reason was unselfish --he thought it would be damaging to a show business institution called The Tonight Show.
(If you doubt that, then I don't know what to say. Conan has said it and I believe him.)

I don't think Conan is a saint. But I think he made his decision with considerations beyond his own self-interest.

By contrast, all of Jay Leno's decisions are selfish.
Everything Jay Leno does is in Jay Leno's self-interest.
Nothing matters beyond how it serves Jay Leno's agenda.

I base my evaluation of Jay Leno's character on the behavior he has demonstrated and the actions he has taken over the course of this entire affair.

You claim that you know that if the situations were reversed that Conan would have done exactly what Jay did.

The only problem with that claim is that it is entirely based on your speculation of what Conan's behavior would be.

I base my contrasting opinion of Conan's character based on the actions he has taken and the behavior he has demonstrated.

Thank you.

Count Dooku

Having an ego and the drive is what makes successful people successful.

Allowing your ego and drive to become a form of narcissism that leads you to take actions without consideration for the negative consequences those actions will have on others is what makes Jay Leno successful.

wmansir

I don't see Leno as being any more or less selfish, malicious or evil than anyone else involved. I see him as being spineless, but not evil. He should have stood up to Zucker in 2004, barring that he should have left NBC last year and gone to another network (and Kimmel should be thanking him for not taking that option.)

I don't get Kimmel's "Leave our shows alone" plea, or the sense that Conan has a special right to the TS. It's a business. If you can't earn your keep then don't blame the guy who can do your job better. Coffee's for closers! That being said, I think it's short sighted of NBC to ditch Conan for Leno now that they've made the (ill advised) switch. Conan's ratings are in the tank, but there is no guarantee Leno will be able to get his audience back. What is guaranteed is that they will lose Conan and have to do this all over again in 5-10 years.

On Carolla's podcast Robert Schimmel said Conan should go back to 12:30, even if it bruises his ego, because his show was better then and he was able to take more risks. Career-wise I can't agree with that, but he's right on the comedy front.

Cory02

Kimmel on Leno was awesome. "Oh, this is a trick right, where you get me to host the Tonight Show then take it back from me?"

treszoks

How is wanting to keep the show you were promised in the time slot that it's been on for 50-60 years egomaniacal? Jay has the chance to right a wrong by saying no thanks to bumping Conan.

Quake1028

I think it's already the best show on network late night.

Quake1028

I'm sure it was discussed earlier, but Ricky Gervais was awesome.

redrum

The thing is Conan is getting 7 months to build an audience while it took Leno around 20 months i think before he started beating Letterman in the ratings, not to mention Conan has Lenos terrible show as a lead-in, it's rediculous

Brent L

I think this works now more than ever:

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chuckd21

Can we knock off the personal nonsense and just get back to bashing celebrities please?

RichC2

Stay Classy San Diego.

Hokeyboy

Lisa Glassberg takes shits at work.

Deftones

Nice job by Kimmel. I honestly think Stern had some influence in Kimmel doing that. I hope Stern does go on Conan next week. It will be an epic appearance.

Flave

Best post in this (too long) thread.

Conan was great at 12:30 -- he sucked balls at 11:30.

Additionally, there was no way he was ever going to attract the same broad spectrum of viewers that Leno did at 11:30; he just doesn't have that appeal.

NBC should have kept Leno at 11:30 and if Conan wanted to leave for greener pastures, so be it. Move in Fallon.

You can argue back and forth about Leno and Conan all you want. But IMO there is only one villain in this fiasco -- the gutless intellectually challenged Jeff Zucker. Both Leno and Conan are simply reacting as anyone else would to an unholy clusterfuck created by that moron.

Bill Geiger

Having not listened to Stern in a long while, a quick fill-in would be good.

Deftones

about what? there are some youtube audio from his show on thursday talking about him getting invited to Conan next week. if you are talking about my comments regarding Kimmel, it's just a hunch since they are such good friends.

Metrodub

But aren't Kimmel and Leno friends? Didn't Jay do Kimmel's show and then Kimmel did Jay's the same night, or something like that? I read somewhere that they were close and knowing that those 10 @ 10 segments are almost completely scripted it appeared that this wasn't the harsh bashing as some would make it out to be.

MrX

Yeah, but that was during the writer's strike when it was hard to book guests.

Metrodub

Forgot about that...but still, I don't think Leno was surprised by Kimmel's answers.

SpanishTechno

No way, that was far from a playful back and forth between friends. Obviously Jay knew there'd be a few jabs at him during the segment but Kimmel repeatedly crossed the line and Leno wasn't prepared for it. If it was scripted it would of been a lot more cordial and Leno would of had some better comebacks.