THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I respect your opinion and thank you for your reasonable contribution to a discussion in lieu of a "this sucks" post.

While it is a slight rehash, this "device" while frequently used in comic books I have to concede has been slightly overplayed too frequently with Sylar... though we've seen similar switchings with HRG quite a bit too. This show is all about and will continue to be about switching teams. So you may have to reconsider sticking with it if that bothers you (y much like another show I know annoyed people back in the day with another Greg Grunberg called ALIAS). I expect it to continue to happen A LOT as the show progresses.

I'm not a fan of "this sux" posts myself so you won't find me doing that.

I don't have a problem, per se, with a character switching sides for a purpose but it's far too frequent on this show. Noah switches sides (but he was shady from day 1 so he's acceptable, IMO), Nathan switches sides at the drop of a hat. Mohinder has dabbled in both. Ali Larter's myriad of characters flip-flopped. Ma Petrelli flips depending on the day of the week and which son she favors at the moment. Then of course there is Sylar who's as confused as the viewer. I can understand someone with powers dealing with doing good or going evil, but in this show the reasons for the character's motivations just don't work except for HRG. He's the exception because everything he does is for family. He does what it takes and that works.

Who is the villain in this show? Danko? Really? Without a clear and concise bad guy, you have a garbled mess. Who am I supposed to root for or against? Peter seems to be the only true 'Hero' at this point since Claire and Hiro are largely useless(I'd consider Parkman, Ando, Mohinder and the others are mainly B characters). That's another reason why season one was so strong. You had a clear villain in Linderman & the Co. and all the heroes were all good guys going after them.

The writers need to pick a villain and stick with it. Develop the character into someone we love to hate like Linderman or Sylar. Pa Patrelli had potential but being a villain in lieu of having two 'hero' sons smacked of desperation.

Instead of a Peter vs Sylar fight, I think a huge brawl between the heroes and Sylar could be handled well if they coordinate and budget for it. If it just comes down to Peter and Sylar, what are the rest of them slated to do? I agree that the hallway fight that was alluded to was awesome, let's build on that.

Okay. Point (somewhat) taken. Except I have a small problem with your S1 comment. Who really WAS the villain? They were all trying to do what each suspected needed to be done to save the world... well except maybe Sylar who was mostly oblivious to what everyone else was doing based on what we now know Linderman & the Company were trying to do.

As Angela recently explained, the Company was created by the "heroes" in the first place. They were simply mishandling everything in order to attempt changing what they'd deemed the inevitable future without coaching. So while Sylar could have triggered the end of the world, he really wasn't the villain as much as fate was... since they all ended up almost making it happen no matter which path they tried to take or avoid. I mean ultimately wasn't it PETER who ended up being the villain by blowing up NYC and Nathan the hero for flying him out of there before he could?

But you're right, they are making them all flip-flop too frequently... except for Hiro who just seems cluelessly devoted to being the selfless defender of justice.

Speaking of cool fight scenes, have we had any, at all? The Peter/Sylar thing didn't happen on screen and everything else seems to be minor confrontations(Sylar's cutlery every episode, Pa Patrelli & Adam). Maybe Elle & Sylar's scene? The single coolest (pun intended) action they have done in three years was when they let loose and Tracy had her "Frozone" moment in the garage.

That brings me to another topic. They want it to be a comic book show, but still ground it in reality. It's becoming clear the writers just aren't up to the task. If they want to do the comic thing, they should just go balls-to-the-wall with the action f/x and lose a bulk of the family drama. Sure the drama is what hooked people in season one, but it's clear that no longer works as evidenced by Nathan & Claire's Mexican night out and Ma Patrelli & her 'long lost' sister. Also the people that were in it for the drama are long gone by now.

Well there was the little bit of Future Ando vs. Hiro, and the finale of Volume 3 with the pyro guy fighting Peter and Mohinder, but all the "fight" scenes have been short or side-stories.

I don't mind Hiro and Ando, but what would have been cool is if they had done more of the underground stuff, instead of the constant jumping from different themes. THat style of storytelling completely diminished the ability internment camp story. IMO, the best episode of Volume 4 was the HRG-interrogation episode.

I've been faithful to this show up to this point, given it numerous second chances, despite the weak Volume 2 and horrendous Volumes 3 and 4. I couldn't even get past the first ten minutes of this episode. I was going to watch up until the season finale, but now I don't think it's even worth it. For those still hoping the show gets back to its roots, I salute you, and hope that does actually happen, but I'm done...

I wholeheartedly agree.

That would have to be in the spin-off series Herhoes

I am still giving them a bit of a break. It took about a year and a half for it to decline to where it is. It is a bit unrealistic to expect all that to be undone in a few episodes. I have essentially stopped worrying about Vol 4 and will reserve judgement for volume 5 as to whether or not it can redeem itself.

Not bad. Not bad at all.


Fair enough.

A big part of their problem is the multitude of characters that they are trying to portray as morally gray. We have Noah, Angela, Nathan, Sylar, and Traci/Nikki/Jessica. That is a bit too many for a show to sustain. Add in the fact that they have no clue how to do that other than flip flop back and forth between good and evil and it gets a bit tedious.

Yep, I've been pointing out this very thing for some time now.

I think the only one they've gotten right in the moral ambiguity realm has been HRG/Noah, and that was previously. Now he's just as much a flip-flopper as the rest of them.

+1

That's where the series peaked. At that moment, I felt I was watching the best show on TV. Everything since then has been a letdown.

Nowadays, watching this show is like that guy on Office Space:

Ever since that moment, every single episode has been worse than the one before. So that means every Monday night I'm watching the worst episode of Heroes.

Still one of my favorite shows currently on. If they canceled this, they'd just replace it with some reality show, so be careful what you wish for.

I didn't really enjoy this episode. I thought it was slow and didn't advance the overall story arc at all. The whole deal with Sylar struggling with his identity after obtaining the shape shifting ability seems so out of place at this point in the season (seemed more like an episode 10 or 11 filler episode) and especially since this is episode 24.

I don't understand why out of the blue they decided to bring up Sylar's Mommy issues as well this late in the game. I also thought it was pointless to bring back Micah as well.

Also, I know Bryan Fuller was brought in as a Consulting Producer, but do you all think he's really helped? I mean Heroes is still using Kring's writing staff from Day 1 with the exception of Loeb and Alexander. Fuller has written 1 whopping episode and I highly doubt he will have written this season finale as this is Tim Kring's baby and he's written the last 2 season finales.

I'm not going to go on some lame diatribe and say how the show sucks etc. I really think this shows how tough it is to be a TV writer and map out 22-25 hours of television over 36 weeks. I don't envy Kring and his staff at all as they must all feel like crap reading the constant bashing each week and seeing how this show has lost over 10M viewers since season 1 and is barely hanging on to dear life.

that would be awesome but it probably won't happen in the finale


I will still watch since I only watch this show on Mondays.


I hope they did not write any scripts for season 4 so they can take their time and look over all the faults and mistakes and fix them for the new season and regain that magic from season 1.


they show a clip of a heroes webisode called Nowhere Man and the guy looked like the puppet master.

I never watched any of the web shows but was that a origin story of the puppet master?

This is what they need to do to get everyone back on board this sinking ship. They need to go back to Peter vs Sylar. That's it. That's what this show is really about. Clear cut good vs pure evil. Everyone else is just inconsequential. They need to blow their wad of an F/X budget on a finale episode that is just one giant battle:

1. Before the fight, Peter is surrounded by his "good guy" Heroes friends. They all touch him at the same time, and he absorbs multiple powers. He's still nowhere near as powerful as Sylar, but he now has a punchers chance.

2. Peter vs Sylar round one. He's doing well against Sylar, somewhat holding his own, but begins to slowly lose ground. Some of the other good guy Heroes come in, for a quick tussle, mainly to give Peter a breather, but they are all clearly overmatched. Back to Peter, we find out that Sylar is really just toying with him and begins to pound the crap out of him.

3. Sylar almost kills (or kills!) the Flying Senator, without thinking, Peter rushes to his aid, touches him, and basically goes back to square one. Now he can only fly. It looks like the end.

4. Again the other good guys come in for the battle, each getting their asses handed to them by Sylar. Hopefully Parkman, Ando, and Hiro die. Peter touches up with Claire, the two of them slowly try and inch towards Sylar. Claire is thrown back, basically stunned and out for the count. Peter keeps mustering foreward, flesh and bone being torn from his body, but still walking forward. Perfect moment for Sylar to give one of those Apollo Creed respectful looks like "Holy shit, I'm giving this guy everything I got, and he won't go down" sort of deal. Peter keeps coming, seconds from total obliteration, more of a walking skeleton now than anything else. About a foot away, he collapses in front of Sylar, bony hand inches from Sylars foot. Apparently dead.

5. Peter vs Sylar round 2. Sylar gloats, canvasses the area looking at the carnage he's wrought. Buildings on fire, cars overturned, hydrants spouting water, car alarms going off. Just then, Peter reaches out, last dying breath, touches Sylar, gains all of his powers and then the two of them just go at it ala 'Family Guy' chicken fight for a solid 5-10 minutes.

Make the ending of the fight a cliffhanger, just a steady cam shot starting at ground level, then rising up from the battle, with the two of them duking it out. As the shot pulls away, they get smaller, and smaller and smaller, then the corners of the screen turn black, and a circle is created, as if the POV of someone looking through a telescope... pull back, you can some totally badass looking Super Villain type complete with awesome looking supervillain garb (think more Boba Fett than the Riddler), from the penthouse floor of some large highrise. Behind him, a bunch of his nasty looking, supervillain cronies, all leering at the entire scene playing out before him. The head boss gives a wry sneer, a quick throaty chuckle, then...

QUICK CUT TO BLACK.



MAKE IT HAPPEN PEOPLE.

Call my agent if you want more.

That's a little too awesome.

Right now, I'd settle for a Nightcrawler-esque attack on Nathan in the White House.

Here's a thought to "fix" Hiro and have him become the Hiro from the future from season one: Have Sylar kill Ando. That'll give Hiro purpose.

Remember that at the moment, Hiro's the only one who could easily kill Sylar. All he has to do is stop time and plant a spike at the right spot. If it fails, stop time again & repeat!

--

As for the above proposed fight, it looks awesome but the way the show's gone this season, I don't expect much.

I'd expect something decent like Sylar about to kill Nathan, and Peter arriving just behind and touching Sylar to ge the powers back.

Wasn't Sylar able to overcome Hiro's time stopping power in the first season?

Yes, but you're forgetting the writer's greatest tool, the reset button. They've reset everyone's powers at some point, so it's not even really clear who does what anymore either.

The first season seemed like a melting pot of Lost & 24, but since then I think they've taken more cues from Smallville than anything.

I don't believe this needs a spoiler!

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethe...e-shorter.html

It is probably a little too little, a little too late!

But if this were to come back in January, I might watch.

Chris

Hum, I don't remember that, could be, haven't seen season 1 since buying the DVD set when it first released.
Sure smells plot hole if he could. Because, why could he?

-

Technically, turning Sylar to the good side "for good" doesn't really make sense since his powers are just too great. It seems to me that he'd want to help his people's cause and has plenty of ability tpo eliminate any threat that comes from the outside world (non heroes) or villains with powers. His death seems to be the only logical conclusion to this season once Peter regains his powers. But the way the writers have mucked up the previous 2 seasons I won't bet on it. They did play with the idea about killing sylar many times this season including his fake death and body that Noah recovered, Noah himself trying to kill him before escaping to rejoin the Petrellis, and Danko trying to kill him in the last episode.