Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I guess, but they'd be back and to the left of that front foot picture, so maybe you can't see their forest for their trees.

:D

Plus, it does look like there are SOME trees around there, and even the ass picture is pretty sparse, tree-wise...

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

That's another mystery that has been bugging me since the beginning. In addition, so has the scene on the beach between Walt and Locke discussing good and evil over Othello pieces.

I wonder if there might have been a deal between Widmore and Ben in which these "rules" were set up. What if part of that bargain was Ben killing off the inhabitants?

Shouldn't Widmore still be on the island too? He says he was tricked off by Ben. However, in 77 Ben is still very young (early teens?) so I assume he's not astute, or knowledgable enough, to manipulate Widmore off.

I wonder if we'll get a young Ben and Jacob scene. Or was what we've already scene between Richard and Ben supposed to cover that?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

it can't be, she said it was a boy!

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Ben?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Jack? ;) (I don't subscribe to that theory)

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Honestly, I believe that Adam & Eve skeletons are Rose and Bernard. They didn't want to leave the island ever, and they got to die together.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Wait...your joke post reminded me of something somebody said earlier...

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Rose=black Bernard=white
it fits.

and also, minor thing with temporal mechanics
but Jack's landing from 316 is time wise('77) before the 815 landing('08)
so does that make any difference in how we look at how he deplanes?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Isn't Jacob the most likely candidate for the baby's identity? After all, wasn't Horace the one who built the cabin for his family?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Can you put "re:next weeks preview" in front of that? I clicked on it because sometimes people spoilerize simple theories.

He wouldn't be old enough though, now would he?

I'm starting if much like "the leader" Jacob is similar to 007 in that it's a title handed down to a new person to fill that role. When John entered the cabin the first time Christian said, "Jacob says..."; then a few weeks back didn't he say something to the effect of him being Jacob?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Locke asked if he was Jacob during 'Cabin Fever'. He replied no, but he can speak on his behalf.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Baby = Miles?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I like this alot. Horace builds cabin. Something happens.. (the Incident, perhaps) and the cabin is transported through time... bouncing around like our Losties were. Poor young Jacob is trapped inside... aging as he bumps around the island for who knows how long. He gets glimpses of the island through all different time periods. He becomes an oracle of sorts. Always trying to escape his confines. Pleading for help.

Sign me up for this one. :up:

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

That's a pretty good idea. I wonder why Horace was building a cabin in the woods to begin with.

It was really odd seeing the cabin just vanish and show up in diffierent places from season 3 to season 4. It has to be flashing through time. Of course, the thing that makes no sense it why Jacob can only be seen by a select few, or barely seen at all. Shouldn't he be dead like Charlotte if he was time traveling for an extended time?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I'm no expert, but I don't think Horace and Amy (Michelle) could make him. ;)

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

So here's the theory my wife and I concocted. Does it work? Maybe. Does it explain everything? No. Are there holes in it? Yes. But let's move ahead.

What if...

The island is whatever it is...let's say, though, it's a bad thing. For whatever reason, it's damaged or contained to the point where the people on it (Richard and the rest, who we'll call the Hostiles) can't get off. No one gets on, no one gets off. It's safely tucked away from the rest of the world, and can't affect our world. Let's assume this is a good thing, and that the island is "The Bad Guy" (for the sake of this theory).

Now, as time goes on, it/the Hostiles get stronger, and try to recruit people. A few it gets by accident (like the Black Freighter). However, as technology advances, it becomes "easier" to find (and maybe to leave, as well).

The Hostiles go about their merry way, interacting with more and more outside people. But for whatever reason, people on the island don't/can't give birth (Richard seems like he's been around for a while).

Then comes Dharma (for whatever reason). There seems to be a conflict there, and apparently a truce grows out of it. Paul is killed, and two hostiles are killed. If Sawyer and Juliet hadn't been there, things would have gone differently. One, the Hostiles would have either killed or kidnapped Michelle From 24. But for the sake of argument, let's assume she somehow could have escaped and got back to the Dharma place. When she went into labor, either she or the baby or both would have died without the presence of Juliet.
"
Horace is seen in a flashback building the cabin for his family. The cabin is the "home" of Jacob. Assuming Jacob is the son of Horace, he exists because Juliet (and company) were there. And I believe they make mention of Michelle From 24 delivering two weeks early; she wasn't supposed to be on the island when she delivered. This makes her child something of an anomaly. For lack of a better word, he's "special."

What if there are actually two forces now: The Island and Jacob? The Incident happens...and then the Purge...orchestrated by Ben. However, we've seen that Ben is "special" as well (his mother talking to him).

Ben gets taken in by the Hostiles. They move into the Dharma housing. Now Ben is their leader. At some point he gets rid of Widmore. They also start integrating Dharma technology and resources for their own use, including recruitment (like Juliet). At this point, they become The Others, as they are no longer just the indigenous people of the island.

Ben realizes the island is a bad thing, and that he can keep it subjugated for a while, but not indefinitely. He needs help. He's "secretly" working for Jacob, while the Others think he's working for the Island.

Locke and the rest of 815 come to the island. Locke is "special." The island get ahold of him first. He gets caught up in the allure of it, including its healing powers. The island is more than happy to use him and lead him to helping it get rid of Ben.

Ben, when he finally meets up with Locke, instead of saying "No, the island is bad, Jacob is good," decides to ease him into the idea of helping him. He lets Locke think the Island and Jacob are connected.

Meanwhile, he's trying to recruit others, like Alex's boyfriend, around to his way of thinking. He does this by brainwashing them away from the influence of the island (God Loves You As He Loved Jacob). Ben is an extreme zealout, but maybe he's fighting a war and realizes there's going to be casualties.

Widmore, being an original Hostile, is living in the real world. He's forced to cope with being tricked out of his birthright and away from his people. So he enlists the help of whoever he can...including, possibly, Hawking and/or former Dharma. When Ben realizes Locke is looking for Hawking, he realizes Widmore is with her too and Locke is working for Widmore (or believe Widmore over Ben). He kills Locke not to murder him, but to make sure he gets back to the island resurrected (for whatever reason).

Widmore says "A war is coming and you need to be on the right side" (paraphrase) to Locke. What if Locke is the key to either side winning, and if he's with Widmore, it brings the Island to power, whereas if he's with Ben, it means the Island is defeated/contained?

Locke has not been shown to be a firm decision maker in the past. He's always easily led by promise of greatness by others. He's always willing to follow whoever gives him the best story. In the end, what if the winner is determined by whoever Locke sides with, thus bringing Locke into his own as a character who has seized hold of his own destiny and future?

Sorry for the length.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Isn't your argument cicular though? You said with Juliette and Sawyer there they were able to deliver baby/Jacob. However, as we know Jacob already exists...

-----

What if the island is Jacob's constant? :eek:

I wonder if the island is trying to "correct" itself, and by doing so setup up for the "correct" side to win the war (versus the battle?). What if Jack & Co. are meant to be overseers of the island versus 'The Others' or 'The Hostiles'. I wonder if the island's attempt to make this correction is to bring Jack & Co. back to the past where they can make a difference (i.e. stop Ben's "purge"). That would then allow a present day war to take place (which is what Locke is waiting for).

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Just a couple of quick thoughts before I re-watch this wonderful episode.

When I saw the shot of the Ajira plane a lightbulb went off in my head. Ben/Jacob must have extensive knowledge of future events because I was thinking back to when Pickett told Sawyer they were building a runway. That must've been their entire purpose for being there on the Hydra island. They left the barracks to go build this thing on the other island without knowing why. While that was going on they also had to deal with Kate, Jack & Sawyer as well as Ben's surgery. They probably started in 2004 and stayed there until it was completed. For the express purpose of flight 316 to be able to land there in 2008. Once they finished the runway, they abandoned the Hydra and went back to the barracks to live as they did before.

Since I believe Locke & co. are in 2008, once he realizes not everyone is with him in this timeline I'm guessing he'll head straight for the cabin to try and ask Jacob for help. Or, maybe find Richard. What went wrong? Do I still need Walt, Aaron, etc...Depending on the answer he gets, I bet he heads right back to the wheel and tries again.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I like this theory. It also triggered a memory about something that happened a couple of seasons ago, when the topic was Ben's possessiveness/love (?) of Juliet. I don't remember which specific characters were involved, but I do remember one line of dialogue from an Other being:

"Of course...she looks just like her."

With "her" never being identified.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I think that quote was regarding Harper Stanhope.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Michelle always looked a little asian to me on 24.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

Yeah, since when is "Reiko" an Asian name?!?

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

wowowo, the baby is Jacob? what?!

So, the characters are not really LOST? But they lost in TIME? Ah!

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

I'm not drinking the baby is Jacob kool-aid.

Re: Lost -- "LaFleur" -- 3/4/09
 

[OT Rant]Hey, that Made in China song is pretty ok. I doubt it would ever take off in today's market and the video is a bit...dramatic...but I think it would have had a fantastic shot as an alternative rock hit back in the mid- to late 90's. Back with Superdrag and Tripping Daisy and the like. Don't know about the giant rod showing mid-vid between some balloons...haha...[/OT Rant]