Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

And he was supposed to be the pilot for oceanic flight 815 but was replaced.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

They apparently knew how to get there via submarine.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

I didn't notice it mentioned, but if Jin's been with Dharma for a while in the 70s, couldn't it be possible that he taught Charlotte Korean?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

So, it seems that when Locke turned the wheel, our friends on the island ended up in the early 70's for 3 years while Ben was working on getting the O6 back. We know Daniel and Jin have been working for Dharma, Daniel at the Orchid site, Jin as a Work Man. I'm sure we'll see Daniel try to warn a young Charlotte soon enough. Maybe we'll even see a young Miles.

When the plane was above the island there was a flash of light which caused our friends on the plane and on the ground to time travel to the present day. Everyone is now caught up and back together in the right time line, they just have to find each other. Jin was driving the Dharma van when the flash happened. I hope Daniel was not underground in a place that could kill him in the future.

I don't know if Kate will end up pregnant from Jack or not. She's had a lot of trouble getting pregnant before plus she had sex twice with Sawyer on the island and nothing happened. Juliet thinks the problem with women dying on the island starts with conception so that could be a problem for her.

The Aaron Situation is still a problem and must be resolved because he cannot be Raised By Another.

Eloise Hawking said that the island is not through with Desmond yet.

Here's the really interesting part. Let's say the pilot (Lapidus) also time travels to the island with our other friends in the flash. The plane maybe wouldn't have crashed but maybe now it does without its pilot. So, it crashes to the island in the early 70's shortly after Dharma has been set up there. Could this crash and electromagnetic anomaly be the incident that starts the whole button-pushing thing in the first place?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Yup, nice summary.

I think Ben killed Penny (interesting that this is one of the options in that Lost game someone set up) and Desmond needs to come back to the island to exact vengeance on Ben. Thus Hawking's statement that the island wasn't done with him yet.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

I couldn't agree with this more. The whole time I was watching I was thinking about how forced the whole scene was. Obviously the writers are trying to hold some information back from us viewers but in doing so they destroyed that whole scene.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

So after this episode, am I the only one who thinks Christian 'committed' suicide to get Jack on Oceanic Flight 815 and to the island, and Christian knew what would happen?

It's starting to look from that, and Abandon going to see Locke while he was in a wheelchair that each person on 815 was 'pushed' onto the flight and the island needed them there for some reason.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

There's nothing special about "electro-magnetic energy". Sunlight is electromagnetic energy. Your lamp emits electromagnetic energy. Your local TV station transmits Lost to you via electromagnetic energy. If some energy source is responsible for the island's travels it had better be something more exotic than electromagnetic energy.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

That's what I was thinking, maybe they are Dharma.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

I'm a little confused on how long Jin, Sawyer, etc have been "stuck" in their final timeline. Some are saying it's the 3 years that the O6 have been off the island but wouldn't it be however long it was from when Locke donkey wheeled himself off and when most of the O6 returned in last night's ep? I can't remember if it's been established at what time Locke arrived at off the island.

So for example, say Locke arrived 2.5 years into the off island life of the O6, that would mean Jin, Daniel, etc, spent 6 months or so in the past presumably working for Dharma before the O6 showed back up. Does that sound right?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Isn't that kind of like saying there is nothing special about gravity? Just because my pen has gravity and a rock has gravity, doesn't mean it can't punch a hole in the fabric of space-time with a black hole.

The Dharma Orientation videos talk a good bit about the special electromagnetic properties of the island, and most specifically the Swan Station. Either its intensity or the form of it must be somewhat "exotic" to cause so much interest by Dharma.

I think the writers are using pseudo-science to partially explain some of the things happening. Electromagnetism is one of those things.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

When Locke got the wheel back on its axis the rapid time traveling stopped. When he turned the wheel he went to Tunisia at some point in time (unknown) and our friends traveled one last time to the 70's where they stayed until the O6 came back. That's 3 years.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

i like how since the start of this season it's all led up to this point of them getting on the plane, but it seemed so rushed and contrived. i'm sure we'll get answers on how Hurley and Sayid got there eventually. just felt way too rushed.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Ok. Im just trying to figure this all out in my head. So... the stuff we see with the Oceanic 6 is all taking place 3 years from when they left. They are now attempting to go back 3 years later. Weve pretty much seen what happened to them during those 3 years. But what I'm wondering is how will we see those 3 years on the island? Will it even actually be 3 years to them?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

here's something i'm confused about, that i'm surprised to see no one has mentioned yet:

jack apparently didn't know until last night's episode that locke had killed himself. ben even said they don't write things like that in obituaries.

but didn't we already know that lock had killed himself from the obituary that jack was reading?

am i wrong?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

the obituary said nothing about him killing himself. just that he died.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Jack- "Kate, where's Aaron?"

Kate- "If you want me to go back with you, never ask me what happened to Aaron."

Jack (what he should have realistically replied)- "Fuck you. I need to know where is the kid we were once raising."

I know its just the writers setting up another little subplotline- similarly in this ep: how did Sayid get arrested&for what & who beat the shit out of Ben- but it is that kind of silly dance that has soured me on this show. I like mystery but hate when it is applied via characters/plotting with that kind of unrealistic, willful indirectness.

I've really lost almost all interest in the mystery and characters on Lost. I swear, the only reason I watch this damn show anymore is because I've invested so much time in it and know there is an end, so I'm kinda' in the slog until the finale.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

I was thinking the same thing, that someone on flight 815 knew that it would get them back to the island. And if I had to guess, I would say it was Cindy the Stewerdess. When the tallies were walking, she just up and dissapeared. Not too long after that, we see her with the others as if nothing happened. She would be my guess.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Although they constitute two of the four basic forces of nature, gravity is very different from EM. It distorts space/time -- or, more precisely, the distortion of space/time by matter causes the acceleration effects we call gravity. And when you're dealing with a phenomenon that affects the very fabric of space you can expect extreme results (such as the black hole you mention). On the other hand, EM operates in a well understood manner within the confines of space/time and, unlike Einstein's general relativity equations, Maxwell's equations do not contain any singularities (e.g. a black hole). In other words, there is nothing exotic about EM energy. You really need to go much further afield to explain the physics of this island. Like wormholes fueled by exotic matter. :) But let's not go there...

But I totally agree with you about the writers using pseudo-science. I think they've totally given up on basing this science fiction series on established science.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

I'm getting a headache reading all these theories.

This was just a setup episode, so I won't waste my last brain cells thinking about it. Next week episode seems to explain at least one thing.

We may even know if Ben is lying or not!

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Interesting. So...what we have been seeing is.

People Left on Island (i.e. last weeks episodes and ones before) = 3 years ago when the 06 were just being found. Those timelines were running at the same time.

We've been seeing flashforwards for the past several episodes of the 06...meaning, when the 06 returned to the island, Charlotte had been dead for 3 years and not just a day or two. Explains why Jin was a Work Man (and probably speaks better English). Wow. Mind fuck.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

My thought:

Only the Losties went through time over the island. The plane didn't crash, everyone else flew through like nothing happened.

Kate being pregnant? That's a good theory.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Fantastic episode. Easily my favorite of this season, and probably the best one we've seen since last season's "The Constant".

I'm SO glad they're getting back to the faith vs. science stuff, since we've had the science end of it crammed down our throats for the majority of this season. The conversation between Jack and Ben about "Doubting" Thomas was great.

Am I the only one who thought the girl from Simon's Butcher Shop (probably another apostle reference, BTW) might be Ben's sister?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Awesome episode. These Lost threads give me a headache with all the theories you all are coming up with.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

My first thought was, Sayid's handler works for Ben. Ben figured that was the only way he can get Sayid on the plane is to basically arrest him.

Another great episode. Ever since the time jumping started I've thoroughly enjoyed each episode.
Ben had great lines.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Regarding the people shooting at the Losties from the outrigger.

The outriggers had Ajira airline bottles in them.
The o6 came on that airline.
Jin appeared, with a rifle.
the losties got shot at with a rifle.
the o6 + jin shot at teh losties because they stole their damned boat and didn't realize the time jump thing.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Ah, good catch.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

No kidding. I thought the same thing - "No Kate, you don't get to break into my apartment and not tell me where my NEPHEW is." Completely contrived and just for the sake of drama.

I'm confused why it's so hard to get to the island. I assumed it had been still for a long time, but Eloise specifically said it was always moving, which means it moved while the Losties were on it and they didn't even know it. Yet Dharma could drop food and supplies on it on a regular basis.

And once again, no questions were answered beyond that Locke killed himself. We still don't know why any of this is happening, how the island could be "tricked" by the new plane, why they have to go back, why Jin was the only survivor of a massive explosion that apparently killed anyone who didn't have a big speaking part.

I'm still waiting for someone to ask "How can an inanimate object like an island 'not be done with us'". Everyone just accepts that like it makes any sense at all.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Another crazy theory...

Ben wanted to get back to the island to resume leadership of the Others. He actually did kill/injure Penny just before leaving on Flight 316.

Locke believed that he was destined to be leader of the Others. (I can't remember if Jacob told him that.) Somehow, this will eventually become true in the past. The island will allow the timeline to be corrected.

Through the purge, and other actions, Ben was able to become leader. But this was never supposed to happen. Daniel did say that the past could not be changed. But we do know he believes that Desmond is an exception.

Desmond will take his revenge and wipe out Ben, changing history and correctly establishing Locke as leader....

Just a little thought I had to connect the dots of the Desmond/Penny/Ben/Locke storyline.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

After thinking on this a bit, I'm going to go with Jack being the person that was returning to the island. Not intentionally though. I don't think that Jack was in the plane when Oceanic crashed. That would explain why he was away from the crash site. I think he was "sucked out" just like he, Kate and Hurley were in this episode.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

A few thoughts:

1. Are they for sure in the present or did they warp to the past that Jinn and the other were in? I tend to think they are in the past now and we'll get all of the answers about Dharma from this.

2. I think Claire and/or Christian appeared and took Aaron back to the island.

3. Ben got beat up getting Sayid captured.

4. Hurley knew about the plane from Charlie. That explains him bringing the guitar along.

5. As for the Electromagnetic issue, that is caused by the A-Bomb that is buried. Remember Jughead?

Anyone agree/disagree?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

It doesn't have to make sense. You just have to believe in it.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

The plane is definitely on the island. As others have mentioned, stuff from Ajira airlines was on the beach.

Also, I read elsewhere about an episode in a previous season where the Others were building a runway. Maybe the flight landed on this runway?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Which raises the question: Why did Ben have to "move" the island if it's moving all the time anyway?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Ahem. Just read past the "electro-magnetic" part. Call it exotic matter instead. ;)

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

^^^
I understand and it's an interesting theory. But why did Ms. Hawking insist that the island was always moving?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Hmm... maybe. We'll see.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

That was back during the Sawyer-and-Kate-in-cages/fish-biscuits period of the show. They would be dragged out to do slave labor for Mr. Friendly and The Others - moving rocks and such - and someone told Sawyer they were building a runway.

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

Yeah, but it was in a pair of outrigger canoes. Where did those come from?

Re: Lost -- "316" -- 2/18/09
 

In-joke: Hurley was reading a Spanish-language version of 'Y: The Last Man' written by current 'Lost' scribe, Brian Vaughan.