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LOST -- "Ji Yeon" -- 03.13.2008

Old 03-14-08, 12:37 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by pinata242
But in this case, for Jin to be the father in the real world's eyes, the baby would have be born way late, right? Because the lie would have to say that (infertile) Jin and Sun conceived the baby on or before 9/22/2004. Of course this assumes a normal gestation period...

...ah, I see what you're saying. You're saying that maybe Sun is naturally giving birth early - early enough that the 37 days can be explained that way. Saying that it is the normal due date based on when Jin was still alive.

That's possible, but a little convoluted.
I'm saying she could have actually given birth early which would have made it more realistic that she conceived while Jin was still alive (even though he probably isn't dead). If she went full term then it would have been questionable.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:38 PM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by pinata242
^ I'm with you there. It's all possible. And the only thing I'm basing this off now is my assumption that the timelines are near in-synch. Meaning Sun's mid-late October conception, if carried to full term, would specifically preclude Jin from being the father unless she was way overdue.

That's all I know.
I guess I'm just confused as to something you are basing this on and just want to know this:

What date do you think the baby is born on? I'll take even a month/year.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:41 PM
  #253  
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We know the baby was conceived in mid-late October 2004, Island Time.

We know Sun gets rescued before the baby was born.

We know that her EDD would be mid-late July, 2005, Island Time.

I'm assuming Island Time ~= Real World Time.

Therefore, I'm placing my money on Ji Yeon's birthday to be mid-late July, 2005.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:44 PM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by achau9598
I don't know. He stopped and watched her intently. Didn't seem random to me.
Hey, you get a chance to see some vagina, you take that chance.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:45 PM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by pinata242
We know the baby was conceived in mid-late October 2004, Island Time.

We know Sun gets rescued before the baby was born.

We know that her EDD would be mid-late July, 2005, Island Time.

I'm assuming Island Time ~= Real World Time.

Therefore, I'm placing my money on Ji Yeon's birthday to be mid-late July, 2005.
And I'm fine with all of that. So then, you are saying, given the fact the baby appears to be early, a gestation period of 11 mos.? I think that's where you are getting 11 mos. from.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:48 PM
  #256  
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Although I think it's a pretty safe assumption, we don't know for sure (yet) that Michael gave Sayid and Desmond the "DO NOT TRUST THE CAPTAIN" note. Didn't those two let it slip to the helicopter pilot that Ben had a spy on the boat? Someone else, perhaps even the captain himself, could be setting them up.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:51 PM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by crooksha
Although I think it's a pretty safe assumption, we don't know for sure (yet) that Michael gave Sayid and Desmond the "DO NOT TRUST THE CAPTAIN" note. Didn't those two let it slip to the helicopter pilot that Ben had a spy on the boat? Someone else, perhaps even the captain himself, could be setting them up.
It could very easily have been the chick that later appeared to kill herself. After all, she was caught with the book upside-down - a sign that she was up to something.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:52 PM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by achau9598
It could very easily have been the chick that later appeared to kill herself. After all, she was caught with the book upside-down - a sign that she was up to something.
(quickly turns book right side up and whistles....)
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Old 03-14-08, 01:00 PM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
And I'm fine with all of that. So then, you are saying, given the fact the baby appears to be early, a gestation period of 11 mos.? I think that's where you are getting 11 mos. from.
No, I pointed out in post 229 that I miscalculated to come up with those 11 months. Throw that away, it's useless.
Originally Posted by pinata242
You're right here, I miscalculated. I was adding the 8 weeks she'd already occurred to the normal gestation - confused myself by thinking it was 8 weeks after the crash that conception occurred. Thanks for pointing it out so convincingly
I do contend now, however, that in order for Jin to be believed to be the father she has to carry the baby for 10+ months (unless there is a significant date differential between the island and real world, which *I* don't buy).
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Old 03-14-08, 01:05 PM
  #260  
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Originally Posted by achau9598
It could very easily have been the chick that later appeared to kill herself. After all, she was caught with the book upside-down - a sign that she was up to something.
I took that as foreshadowing her apparent craziness, but that makes sense too.
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Old 03-14-08, 01:09 PM
  #261  
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Barring any island/outside world time differences, if Sun went full term the baby would be born in July.

If she is telling the world (post island) that it is Jin's baby, then the child would have to be born no later than mid-June otherwise people would start questioning the 10 month pregnancy. Ji Yeon could have been born a month early, June and this still works with the outside world. It's a very tight and clever timeline. Although docs would know if it was a premie.

There's no way of knowing without Ji Yeon's birthdate.

Last edited by Michael Corvin; 03-14-08 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 03-14-08, 01:10 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by pinata242

I do contend now, however, that in order for Jin to be believed to be the father she has to carry the baby for 10+ months (unless there is a significant date differential between the island and real world, which *I* don't buy).
Here's the only time line we can probably be certain of - 12/24/2004.

That's all we know for sure. We can probably assume about three more weeks for Sun, since that's all she had and she's still alive and the baby is OK. So that puts us in mid-Jan. 2005

So from that point forward, any date could have been the date of her flashback. It didn't have to be July, it could have been March, or hell, even June 2012. But the point is we don't have any info that would prove your theory, but much that makes it unlikely.

Ah Lost. It's replaced sports as #1 watercooler talk.
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Old 03-14-08, 01:15 PM
  #263  
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So to summarize, the outside world will think the baby is Jin's even though he "died" 9/22/04 because the early delivery will coincide with a normal 9 month pregnancy which dates back to sometime before the crash.

If the baby was on time or late, the outside world would figure out that the baby was conceived after the crash because of the date differences.

This is all assuming island time and real world time are approximately the same.
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Old 03-14-08, 01:37 PM
  #264  
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37 weeks is considered full term. At 42 weeks, most doctors will induce.
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Old 03-14-08, 01:59 PM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by Mercury&Solace
Bring on the flames....

Who gives a fuck about Zoe Bell, really. I am glad she is dead so I don't have to hear her damn name every week on here, everybody here on the edge of there seats waiting for her to arrive on screen. Who cares. You would think it's the 2nd coming of Christ or something the way people here on the Lost threads talk about her.

Other than that rant, I loved this episode. Lost rules all.
I couldn't possibly agree any more.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:10 PM
  #266  
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Based on last night, my guess is that Jin dies before they make it off the island, and that Sun and Hurley are using the 'fake death' tombstone to mourn him even though he is not actually buried there. And that the cover story is he died in the plane crash.

The other possibilites:

* The above, except that instead of saying Jin dies in the plane crash they claim he was one of the two who made it to the island only to die afterward - This would cover any potential maternity issues, but wouldn't explain why they are still using the old tombstone. Too cheap to get a new one?

* Jin is still alive on the island, and Sun & Hurley are staging the grave visit - My problem with this theory is why Hurley would say "let's go see him" when there is nobody else but Sun and the baby around, instead of "let's go do this" or something similar?

* Jin made it off the island as one of the Oceanic 6, but then died - Again, if this was the case, I doubt they would be using the old tombstone.

* Jin made it off the island and is still alive - Well, none of it makes sense if this is the case.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:10 PM
  #267  
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Re: Zoe Bell - at least they didn't have to hire a stunt woman for her jump into the sea.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:15 PM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by Mercury&Solace
Bring on the flames....

Who gives a fuck about Zoe Bell, really. I am glad she is dead so I don't have to hear her damn name every week on here, everybody here on the edge of there seats waiting for her to arrive on screen. Who cares. You would think it's the 2nd coming of Christ or something the way people here on the Lost threads talk about her.

Other than that rant, I loved this episode. Lost rules all.
Agreed. With all the excitement in these threads about her appearing, I was expecting her to be on screen longer than 2 minutes. Oh well, I'm sure we'll see her again.

Anyway, pretty solid episode. I have to admit, I didn't figure out that Jin's was a flashback until almost the end of the episode, but that was because I was expecting some twist to come along that fulfilled the spoilers I'd read. In retrospect, I'm an idiot for not catching on earlier.

The thing that seems silly to me is why did they put Jin's date of death as 9/22/2004? If they're going to lie about when he died, might as well make it a date that would allow him to be the father of Ji Yeon. That would have been in-line with the fake story that 8 people survived the crash, but 2 died on the island. It also would have eliminated ~90% of the posts in this thread.

Whatever, that's a moot point anyway. What I want to know is who the last of the O6 is. If it's Aaron, I'm going to be very disappointed.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:18 PM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by DRG
* Jin is still alive on the island, and Sun & Hurley are staging the grave visit - My problem with this theory is why Hurley would say "let's go see him" when there is nobody else but Sun and the baby around, instead of "let's go do this" or something similar?
For no good reason, I think he's still alive on the island, but this is the main thing making me not so sure...just makes no sense to say "let's go see him."

I think when Hurley said, "Goooooood," it was just because he didn't want to deal with the drama or be reminded of the island any more.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:19 PM
  #270  
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Originally Posted by DRG
* Jin is still alive on the island, and Sun & Hurley are staging the grave visit - My problem with this theory is why Hurley would say "let's go see him" when there is nobody else but Sun and the baby around, instead of "let's go do this" or something similar?
i know it's Hurley-speak, but he did use the word "like". i believe he said, "should we, like, go see him?". to me, Hurley is saying that because it's the only way they can "see" him..

for the time being, i believe that Jin is still on the island.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:30 PM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by Mercury&Solace
Bring on the flames....

Who gives a fuck about Zoe Bell, really. I am glad she is dead so I don't have to hear her damn name every week on here, everybody here on the edge of there seats waiting for her to arrive on screen. Who cares. You would think it's the 2nd coming of Christ or something the way people here on the Lost threads talk about her.
Ha, so true. Seriously, looking at her resume I don't understand why anyone thought she should have some major important role in the show. They needed someone to do a small bit of acting and jump into the water wearing chains.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:31 PM
  #272  
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I thought the "spoilers" guaranteed us that Jin was part of the Oceanic 6?
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Old 03-14-08, 02:39 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
I thought the "spoilers" guaranteed us that Jin was part of the Oceanic 6?
Yeah, no shit. I'd say I hope that people will stop smacking down other non-spoiler proposals based off of the "spoilers" but I doubt it...
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Old 03-14-08, 02:41 PM
  #274  
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Here's some info on historical "Captain Gaults" (from Lost wiki)

Captain Gault seems to be a captain for hire, and operates a different ship in each of the stories. Some take place in England, some in the United States, some in Havanna, and some in Europe. Gault himself is a morally ambiguous character who follows the pattern of many famous fictional criminals: although a law-breaker (he seems primarily interested in making money), he proves also to have a strict moral code. As the series progresses, we learn tantalizing bits of information about Captain Gault: he seems to be highly placed in a secret society; he has occult knowledge about arcane religious artifacts; he seems to be very knowledgeable about gemstones; he is a skilled amateur painter. In general, he reveals himself to have surprising resevoirs of specialized knowledge. Where he got all this knowledge is generally not revealed; we get only these tantalizing hints at the character's past.

The Captain Gault stories tend to follow several patterns. Most of the stories are about smuggling, usually involving a great deal of cleverness; often the plot centers around information that is known to Captain Gault but not provided to the reader. There is usually some kind of misinformation or even play-acting performed for the misdirection of customs officials. Sometimes the deception is in sleight-of-hand; sometimes it is in the Captain's choice of hiding place (which may be in plain sight). In many of the stories the customs officials or other law-enforcement personnel involved are told about the plot. Sometimes Gault's own confidants are fed misinformation so that they can reveal it, as part of the deception. The stories usually end with a smug Captain Gault explaining the plot, sometimes over dinner, and sometimes by letter.
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Old 03-14-08, 02:43 PM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by DRG
Based on last night, my guess is that Jin dies before they make it off the island, and that Sun and Hurley are using the 'fake death' tombstone to mourn him even though he is not actually buried there. And that the cover story is he died in the plane crash.

The other possibilites:

* The above, except that instead of saying Jin dies in the plane crash they claim he was one of the two who made it to the island only to die afterward - This would cover any potential maternity issues, but wouldn't explain why they are still using the old tombstone. Too cheap to get a new one?

* Jin is still alive on the island, and Sun & Hurley are staging the grave visit - My problem with this theory is why Hurley would say "let's go see him" when there is nobody else but Sun and the baby around, instead of "let's go do this" or something similar?

* Jin made it off the island as one of the Oceanic 6, but then died - Again, if this was the case, I doubt they would be using the old tombstone.

* Jin made it off the island and is still alive - Well, none of it makes sense if this is the case.
There's another possibility: Jin's alive on the island, but Hurley, Sun, etc. think that he's dead. Don't forget that we saw Locke get capped in the back and live through it. Jin could get shot/stabbed/whatever as part of a group of survivors trying to escape the island. Those that make it are sure he died, but the island does its magic and he fully recovers after they leave.
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