thegame370

Dont know if anyone has mentioned this yet but....What a tremendous, quick-fast, gangsta ass beat down Locke gave ol' patch eye!!!! That was great! Then he gave him such a in ya face grin as he and Ben walked off to see Jacob. Damn he betta not die

alpha540

re-watching this episode again, i'm thinking that ben doesn't die in this season after all because there are just too many unanswered questions about ben's past. i'm thinking that they never showed us what happened to annie, why richard told ben to be patient, why richard so quickly accepted ben, ben's purge plan and so on. then again this is coming from a huge ben/michael emerson fan, so i'm a bit biased.

alpha540

yeah she did (2nd trimester is 4-6 months). well, now we know why ben is wasting everyone's time with fertility tests and such.

alpha540

yup.

IDrinkMolson

Any connection to the bones/dharma suits in the polar bear cave when Locke got Echo, and the grave pit?

I'm still not buying the Juliet is on the Losties side. If she is, there was no need to take Sun to the Staff hatch. She could have just left Ben a recording. I think she's playing both sides right now, covering her ass both ways.

If it is future Locke I would have told myself, Shoot Ben NOW!!! So, I don't think it's Locke.

It looked to me that Ben shot Locke because Ben created a monster and Locke was going to force him out, after the Mikhail fight, killing his dad, etc.

Sawyer was shot in the arm and healed. And, apparently the Others don't think zombies will rise up. They sent Dale's wife to a Viking funeral.

It appears that Naomi is not affiliated with the Others.

I picked up on the Ben's mom dying thing too. And, my first thought was, we're not in Hurley's head, we're in Ben's head and he's making this all up.

Seantn

Did Ben's daughter know that he would try to kill Locke? Is that why she told Ben "If you're going to see Jacob, you'll need this", and handed him a gun?

Deftones

So, if the producers say that everything on the show is within the realm of possibility and could happen in real life, I'm confused by the Jacob stuff. It can't be a ghost. That would make them liars. If Ben's crazy, how did Locke hear and possibly see someone there?

alpha540

well, we don't know if tom is one of the original hostiles or was recuited by ben. and while the hostiles, didn't want dharma on the island, they sure don't mind using their facilities.

alpha540

when did they say that? they said that everything on the island could be explained scientifically/bordering on michael crichton-esque pseudoscience.

hardercore

They initially said that everything could be explained scientifically, but later changed their stance on that (in one of the podcasts) to pseudo-science. So they are allowing themselves some liberties in the science-fiction realm of things.

Deftones

Initially they did. I don't podcast or follow the show outside of what's on TV, so I'd not known they changed their stance. That's major weaksauce.

alpha540

i don't know if this has been brought up before but i thought it was an interesting theory. found this over at the abc board. basically whatever's happening on the island is the philadelphia experiment with some slight changes. check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment

hardercore

Closeup of Locke (Greenish-blue eyes)


Closeup of Ben (Greenish-blue eyes)


Closeup of Jacob (Dark, brown eye)

The Zizz

Regardless of whether that is plausible, it's not a Catch-22

hardercore

"Sort of" a Catch-22. I know it's not an actual Catch-22 -- It's hard to think of any really good examples of a Catch-22 bar the one presented in the book, but the argument here was that both instances/occurences depend entirely on the other to exist, so it's a logically impossible situation.

The Zizz

But isn't your theory a logically possible situation, not an impossible one? There are 2 instances / occurrences that depend on the other to exist, but your theory is that both indeed exist, not that it's impossible for one of them to exist and thus impossible for the other to occur. There could be some circularity involved (x only if y, and y only if x), but a catch-22 deals, as you stated, with impossibility, and not circularity. (In a catch-22: x only if y; if y, then not x (therefore x cannot obtain)).

hardercore

Ok. The verdict, then: it's not a Catch-22. Glad that's established now.

Grasping the concept of a Catch-22 is really hard. None of the Catch-22's in the episode "Catch-22" (being Desmond's reason for the trek in the first place, and the Charlie sacrifice/Penny meeting situation) were of the "x only if y; if y, then not x" nature either. Yet they still found it apt to name an episode by it.

I was just putting it out there that with all the talk of Locke=Jacob that Locke may have somehow been hearing himself. Yeah, calling it a Catch-22 was probably the wrong idea, but my intentions were for the point of discussion to really be whether or not Locke somehow heard himself. Not debating to the death whether it fits the hard-and-fast definition of a Catch-22.

DVD Josh

I do not believe that the close up of the eye was Jacobs. I think it's Locke.

hardercore

I don't know whether or not you were trying to be sarcastic here, but Locke's eyes are clearly light green, and the eye shown is clearly not. They didn't want to reveal Jacob's face which is why they framed the eye only, or the silhouette only.

orangerory

So did Locke killing his dead have anything to do with Henry killing his own dad? Like was it some kind of test to lead the others?

Struz

It looks like Jack's eye to me.

heavy liquid

I think it's too difficult to tell who it is based solely on the eye color. The close up of the eye is in dark surroundings with very little light being reflected from the eye, unlike those shots of Locke and Ben. I think it could just as easily be Locke as it could be Ben.

But I have to agree with Struz... based on the shape and features, it looks like Jack's eye to me, too.

MoviePage

I have felt since season 1, and still feel, that Locke is somehow a major key to the whole thing. Of all the Losties, he's certainly been the most important to the overall progression of the story. You could even make the argument that he has been the central character of the show, in fact. No way he dies.

dsa_shea

He is the one that found the hatch/Swan and trekked to the Pearl as well. He also discovered the Black Rock if I'm not mistaken. He has been an integral part of the show and a great character to watch. I like the fact that he shows the many sides of humanity that we don't get from other characters like Jack, Charlie, Claire, etc.

cleaver

If Jacob = Mikhail it would make a lot of sense to me. He's come and gone as he pleases, he looks similar to Jacob, it would explain his coming back from the dead and not being psised at Locke about it.