The Official Babylon 5 Season 2 thread
05-14-03, 01:09 PM
#26
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How do the Babylon 5 books fit in with the series?
Are they considered canon? Are they connected with a particular season? Are they to be avoided until I watch the whole series?
Are they considered canon? Are they connected with a particular season? Are they to be avoided until I watch the whole series?
05-14-03, 01:15 PM
#27
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I've read the Centauri Prime trilogy and the Psi Corps trilogy. Both trilogies are considered canon and both are worth reading if you're a fan of the show, but not until after you've seen all five seasons.
Centauri Prime trilogy (written by Peter David) starts its first chapter as a scene from the end of season five and continues from there in the storyline/timeline.
Psi Corps trilogy (written by J. Gregory Keyes) starts with the discovery of telepaths and creation of Psi Corps in the first book, but the second two books take place after season five.
Centauri Prime trilogy (written by Peter David) starts its first chapter as a scene from the end of season five and continues from there in the storyline/timeline.
Psi Corps trilogy (written by J. Gregory Keyes) starts with the discovery of telepaths and creation of Psi Corps in the first book, but the second two books take place after season five.
05-14-03, 01:16 PM
#28
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Not time yet.
The only books worth reading:
#7 and #9 from the "original series"; 1-6 and 8 don't really belong.
The Bester Series and The Centauri Prime series.
Both series should be read after you finish the 5 seasons.
#7 and #9 can be read sometime after season 3 or 4...
don't bother with the other ones.
The only books worth reading:
#7 and #9 from the "original series"; 1-6 and 8 don't really belong.
The Bester Series and The Centauri Prime series.
Both series should be read after you finish the 5 seasons.
#7 and #9 can be read sometime after season 3 or 4...
don't bother with the other ones.
05-14-03, 03:09 PM
#29
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The best (and only) one that I read was the one about the events that happened after Comd Sinclair was reassigned from B5
For Sinclair fans it is a must read, an overall excellent book I have read it twice I liked it so much. Jms even said it was a fodder book but he owed it to the Sinclair fans as closer. I think it was number 7, 8 or 9 titled "to dream in the city of sorrows"
For Sinclair fans it is a must read, an overall excellent book I have read it twice I liked it so much. Jms even said it was a fodder book but he owed it to the Sinclair fans as closer. I think it was number 7, 8 or 9 titled "to dream in the city of sorrows"
05-14-03, 09:38 PM
#31
DVD Talk Hero
The books are as follows (with canonical works in bold):
The original nine Babylon 5 novels from Dell:
1. Voices, by John Vornholt
2. Accusations, by Lois Tilton
3. Blood Oath, by John Vornholt
4. Clark's Law, by Jim Mortimore
5. The Touch of Your Shadow The Whisper or Your Name, by Neil Barrett, Jr.
6. Betrayals, by S. M. Stirling
7. Shadow Within, by Jeanne Cavelos
8. Personal Agendas,by Al Sarrantino
9. To Dream in the City of Sorrows, by Kathryn Drennan
All of these books are out of print from Dell. The only two that are really considered to be "canon" are 7 and 9. As such, both of these have been reprinted by Del Rey, B5's new publisher. The other seven aren't really important. "Shadow Within" gives some backstory about the Sheridans and Morden, and the events that lead up to the series. "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" tells what Sinclair was doing during the bulk of the second and third seasons, up until that book was published. And as such, "To Dream..." should not be read until you have seen the third season. There be spoilers.
Del Rey Trilogies:
The Psi-Corps Trilogy, by J. Gregory Keyes
1. Dark Genesis: The Birth of the Psi-Corps
2. Deadly Relations: Bester Ascendent
3. Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester
Legions of Fire Trilogy (aka The Centauri Prime Trilogy), by Peter David
1. The Long Night of Centauri Prime
2. Armies of Light and Dark
3. Out of the Darkness
The Passing of the Technomages, by Jeanne Cavelos
1. Casting Shadows
2. Summoning Light
3. Invoking Darkness
All of these trilogies are considred to be canon and should be read only after you have completed the entire series. MAJOR SPOILERS therein.
Other Del Rey books:
In the Beginning by Peter David. Adapts the prequel movie of the same name. Not sure how canonical this is, but Peter David has added some new "details" to the film.
Thirdspace by Peter David. Also adapts the telefilm of the same name.
A Call to Arms by Robert Sheckley. Ditto.
And the comic books:
DC Comics ran a Babylon 5 comic book for eleven issues. It had two major four-issue story arcs, a minor two-issue arc, and a standalone issue that focused as a recruiting ad for the PsiCorps. I'm going to say that the first two "major" arcs are canonical, as JMS was involved with the first one and the second one gives some backstory to a third season plot element.
The entirety of the series was collected into two books:
The Price of Peace The first story gives some more information on Jeff Sinclair and takes place between the first and second season. The book also includes the PsiCorps recruiting piece.
Shadows Past and Present The lead story is backstory involving the pre-Babylon 5 adventures of Sinclair and Garibaldi. The second story is pretty much a throwaway involving G'kar and Garibaldi.
A few years later, DC also did another Babylon 5 series, a three-issue mini-series written by JMS himself, making it very canon:
In Valen's Name Huge, massive spoilers in this. I can't even describe the plot without giving anything away. Not to be read before viewing the fourth season.
There were also a number of short stories, published in various magazines. Some were written by JMS, others by authors of the novels. I'm not sure about the titles, authors, or appearances, though.
The original nine Babylon 5 novels from Dell:
1. Voices, by John Vornholt
2. Accusations, by Lois Tilton
3. Blood Oath, by John Vornholt
4. Clark's Law, by Jim Mortimore
5. The Touch of Your Shadow The Whisper or Your Name, by Neil Barrett, Jr.
6. Betrayals, by S. M. Stirling
7. Shadow Within, by Jeanne Cavelos
8. Personal Agendas,by Al Sarrantino
9. To Dream in the City of Sorrows, by Kathryn Drennan
All of these books are out of print from Dell. The only two that are really considered to be "canon" are 7 and 9. As such, both of these have been reprinted by Del Rey, B5's new publisher. The other seven aren't really important. "Shadow Within" gives some backstory about the Sheridans and Morden, and the events that lead up to the series. "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" tells what Sinclair was doing during the bulk of the second and third seasons, up until that book was published. And as such, "To Dream..." should not be read until you have seen the third season. There be spoilers.
Del Rey Trilogies:
The Psi-Corps Trilogy, by J. Gregory Keyes
1. Dark Genesis: The Birth of the Psi-Corps
2. Deadly Relations: Bester Ascendent
3. Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester
Legions of Fire Trilogy (aka The Centauri Prime Trilogy), by Peter David
1. The Long Night of Centauri Prime
2. Armies of Light and Dark
3. Out of the Darkness
The Passing of the Technomages, by Jeanne Cavelos
1. Casting Shadows
2. Summoning Light
3. Invoking Darkness
All of these trilogies are considred to be canon and should be read only after you have completed the entire series. MAJOR SPOILERS therein.
Other Del Rey books:
In the Beginning by Peter David. Adapts the prequel movie of the same name. Not sure how canonical this is, but Peter David has added some new "details" to the film.
Thirdspace by Peter David. Also adapts the telefilm of the same name.
A Call to Arms by Robert Sheckley. Ditto.
And the comic books:
DC Comics ran a Babylon 5 comic book for eleven issues. It had two major four-issue story arcs, a minor two-issue arc, and a standalone issue that focused as a recruiting ad for the PsiCorps. I'm going to say that the first two "major" arcs are canonical, as JMS was involved with the first one and the second one gives some backstory to a third season plot element.
The entirety of the series was collected into two books:
The Price of Peace The first story gives some more information on Jeff Sinclair and takes place between the first and second season. The book also includes the PsiCorps recruiting piece.
Shadows Past and Present The lead story is backstory involving the pre-Babylon 5 adventures of Sinclair and Garibaldi. The second story is pretty much a throwaway involving G'kar and Garibaldi.
A few years later, DC also did another Babylon 5 series, a three-issue mini-series written by JMS himself, making it very canon:
In Valen's Name Huge, massive spoilers in this. I can't even describe the plot without giving anything away. Not to be read before viewing the fourth season.
There were also a number of short stories, published in various magazines. Some were written by JMS, others by authors of the novels. I'm not sure about the titles, authors, or appearances, though.
05-15-03, 06:05 AM
#32
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Today's Episode: GROPOS
Summary: Babylon 5 gets considerable space problems when 25,000 Earthforce soldiers arrive. Led by General Richard Franklin, Stephen Franklin's father, they are to use Babylon 5 as a staging point for a risky military operation.
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Summary: Babylon 5 gets considerable space problems when 25,000 Earthforce soldiers arrive. Led by General Richard Franklin, Stephen Franklin's father, they are to use Babylon 5 as a staging point for a risky military operation.
Babylon 5 is now heavily armed, ready to take on a warship. Which raises the question: why wasn't it before? Mere shortsightedness on the part of the designers -- a station like Babylon 5 seems a natural target -- or something else? Even if there originally didn't seem any need to heavily arm the station, the attacks on the station in "Signs and Portents" and "A Voice in the Wilderness, part 2" should have demonstrated that B5 will come under attack from time to time.
05-15-03, 08:18 AM
#33
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Josh-da-man - thanks for the detailed info on the books, and thanks to the rest of you who responded to my query. I'll just have to wait until I see the whole series before starting to read them, I guess.
Re: GROPOS. I like how they placed that bran' spankin' new weaponry on the station. I'm sure they'll need it soon.
Garibaldi should have banged that hot chica when he had the chance.
Re: GROPOS. I like how they placed that bran' spankin' new weaponry on the station. I'm sure they'll need it soon.
Garibaldi should have banged that hot chica when he had the chance.
05-15-03, 09:32 AM
#34
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Michael’s kind of an anti-hero. He doesn’t seem to get the chicks.
I really liked this one. More character development into Franklin. One of the things that sets this series apart from the rest, especially these days. We get to know what makes these people tick – they’re not two-dimensional. And they change with time and situations.
I really liked this one. More character development into Franklin. One of the things that sets this series apart from the rest, especially these days. We get to know what makes these people tick – they’re not two-dimensional. And they change with time and situations.
05-16-03, 05:23 PM
#35
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Thread Starter
Today's episode: All Alone in the Night
Summary: Sheridan is captured by an alien ship when he takes out a Starfury squadron to investigate an area where several ships have disappeared. Meanwhile Delenn is summoned to appear before the Grey Council to discuss her recent change in appearance.
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Summary: Sheridan is captured by an alien ship when he takes out a Starfury squadron to investigate an area where several ships have disappeared. Meanwhile Delenn is summoned to appear before the Grey Council to discuss her recent change in appearance.
Another way of looking at the dream sequence, more metaphysical, is that Sheridan entered a psychic continuum, an astral plane, for lack of a better term. That makes many of the comments less ambiguous:
* "We were never away. For the first time your mind is quiet enough to hear me." This is the first time Sheridan has been in a mental state to consciously recognize the plane; Kosh and everyone else have always been there to some degree.
* "You have always been here." Sheridan has always had some presence in this psychic world; he just hasn't been able to consciously recognize it.
* "The man in between" refers to someone between the physical and spiritual worlds. Perhaps the Sheridan in the sequence is Sheridan's spiritual side, and "the man in between" is Sheridan, searching for his higher soul.
* Ivanova and Garibaldi, as shown in the sequence, are either the projections into this other world of the real people, or are abstractions for something else (darkness and light?)
* Sheridan's Psi-Cop uniform may mean that the Corps plays a part in bridging the physical and astral worlds.
* "We were never away. For the first time your mind is quiet enough to hear me." This is the first time Sheridan has been in a mental state to consciously recognize the plane; Kosh and everyone else have always been there to some degree.
* "You have always been here." Sheridan has always had some presence in this psychic world; he just hasn't been able to consciously recognize it.
* "The man in between" refers to someone between the physical and spiritual worlds. Perhaps the Sheridan in the sequence is Sheridan's spiritual side, and "the man in between" is Sheridan, searching for his higher soul.
* Ivanova and Garibaldi, as shown in the sequence, are either the projections into this other world of the real people, or are abstractions for something else (darkness and light?)
* Sheridan's Psi-Cop uniform may mean that the Corps plays a part in bridging the physical and astral worlds.
05-16-03, 05:54 PM
#37
Banned
I always thought Kosh's comment about how Sheridan was "always" there, was sort of a general comment about everyone, rather than directed specifically towards him.
05-18-03, 07:59 PM
#39
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Bandoman,
All of your questions will be answered sooner or later. Some of them by the end of season two, some of them will have to wait until the end of season three!
All of your questions will be answered sooner or later. Some of them by the end of season two, some of them will have to wait until the end of season three!
05-19-03, 06:00 AM
#41
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Thread Starter
Today's episode: Acts of Sacrifice
Summary: G'Kar struggles to control the Narns on Babylon 5 as he asks the different ambassadors for help in the war against the Centauri. And Ivanova shows a representative from a new species around the station, so he may decide if humans are worthy of their presence.
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Summary: G'Kar struggles to control the Narns on Babylon 5 as he asks the different ambassadors for help in the war against the Centauri. And Ivanova shows a representative from a new species around the station, so he may decide if humans are worthy of their presence.
In keeping with his newfound importance, Londo's outfit has changed slightly; it is crisper, darker, with a slightly more military look.
On a more editorial note, this episode is arguably the first to drive home how different the situation is now than it's been in the past. The dark undercurrents that have always been present in the series begin to surface here, in the form of G'Kar's desperation, Londo's casual lack of concern over the killing and his calm assurance that the Centauri will defeat the Narn, Sheridan's loss of composure with G'Kar, and the general sense of hostility around the station.
The Lumati's arrogant attitude toward other species bears some resemblance to Star Trek's Prime Directive.
On a more editorial note, this episode is arguably the first to drive home how different the situation is now than it's been in the past. The dark undercurrents that have always been present in the series begin to surface here, in the form of G'Kar's desperation, Londo's casual lack of concern over the killing and his calm assurance that the Centauri will defeat the Narn, Sheridan's loss of composure with G'Kar, and the general sense of hostility around the station.
The Lumati's arrogant attitude toward other species bears some resemblance to Star Trek's Prime Directive.
05-19-03, 08:31 AM
#42
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Everybody’s on the rag in this one. Cranky, cranky, cranky.
The “sex” scene with Ivanova is one of my all-time favorites.
I had the “pleasure” of skydiving with Paul Williams. He is as short as he looks. And flies like a turkey.
The “sex” scene with Ivanova is one of my all-time favorites.
I had the “pleasure” of skydiving with Paul Williams. He is as short as he looks. And flies like a turkey.
05-19-03, 09:54 AM
#43
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Originally posted by Wizdar
I had the “pleasure” of skydiving with Paul Williams.
I had the “pleasure” of skydiving with Paul Williams.
The Ivanonva sex scene was hilarious. I wonder whether the Lumati will ever figure out he was tricked, and if so, what the reaction/consequ3ence will be.
05-19-03, 10:18 AM
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Um, no. I’ve done many strange things in my life, but that would not be one of them.I don’t get the reference to the Prime Directive. Maybe that’s how those who are deprived of technology might see it. But all I saw was a race/species WAY to full of themselves.
05-19-03, 10:31 AM
#45
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Everytime someone asked them a question about their non-interference, I kept thinking about Trek. Franklin asking about helping out someone whose hurt, for example.
05-19-03, 01:57 PM
#46
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Originally posted by Bandoman
The Ivanonva sex scene was hilarious. I wonder whether the Lumati will ever figure out he was tricked, and if so, what the reaction/consequ3ence will be.
The Ivanonva sex scene was hilarious. I wonder whether the Lumati will ever figure out he was tricked, and if so, what the reaction/consequ3ence will be.
05-20-03, 06:04 AM
#49
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Thread Starter
Today's Episode: Hunter, Prey
Summary: The president's physician comes to Babylon 5 on the run from Earthforce special intelligence. They say he has classified information he plans to sell to alien governments, though Sheridan soon learns otherwise.
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Summary: The president's physician comes to Babylon 5 on the run from Earthforce special intelligence. They say he has classified information he plans to sell to alien governments, though Sheridan soon learns otherwise.
There may be a Ranger (cf. "The Coming of Shadows") in this episode, though it's very subtle. As Sheridan and Garibaldi reach the bottom of the stairs, just before Sheridan sees the red ribbon, a man walks by the two of them, wearing the same outfit as the Ranger from the aforementioned episode. Which might be coincidence, except that Garibaldi notices the man, even turns and watches him climb the stairs, before looking back at Sheridan, who is meanwhile occupied with the ribbon.
Further note: The constant jabber that occurs when Kosh speaks. It sounds like there are...many "voices" in it. If telepathy is common to Vorlons, then they may have some equivalent to a "hive mind", or at least constant and unbounded access to each other. If so, then why does Kosh periodically return to the Vorlon homeworld? Further, does the same physical "Kosh" return? Still further, if each Vorlon is to a greater or lesser extent all Vorlons, does it matter which physical Vorlon is present? Taken to the extreme, the tag "Kosh" is simply a convenient referent supplied by the Vorlon hive-mind to the folks at B5. (Of course, it may well be the ship that needs to return home, not Kosh at all.)
Further note: The constant jabber that occurs when Kosh speaks. It sounds like there are...many "voices" in it. If telepathy is common to Vorlons, then they may have some equivalent to a "hive mind", or at least constant and unbounded access to each other. If so, then why does Kosh periodically return to the Vorlon homeworld? Further, does the same physical "Kosh" return? Still further, if each Vorlon is to a greater or lesser extent all Vorlons, does it matter which physical Vorlon is present? Taken to the extreme, the tag "Kosh" is simply a convenient referent supplied by the Vorlon hive-mind to the folks at B5. (Of course, it may well be the ship that needs to return home, not Kosh at all.)
05-20-03, 07:31 AM
#50
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One question I have on this episode: why have attention drawn to Kosh's ship (and therefore, the scan) by having it leave? If B5's scanners registered only one lifeform, why not just have the doctor in suspended animation inside the ship and leave it docked?
No way the Vorlons would let the Earthforce special intelligence guys within 10 feet to do a more sustained scan anyway.
No way the Vorlons would let the Earthforce special intelligence guys within 10 feet to do a more sustained scan anyway.