The Official Babylon 5 Season 2 thread
05-20-03, 08:06 AM
#51
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Hmmm. Sounds like a Wizdar comment about Enterprise? Perhaps the station’s scans of the ship at a distance would miss what a closer scan in the docking bay might reveal. [You better watch yourself. You’ll end up hypercritical like ole Wizdar. 
I’m not sure I buy the idea of multiple Koshes, interchangeable without “our” notice. I mean, the concept is fine, and I’ve got no real problem with that. But something will happen later that, in a way, denies the it. (Of course, there’s a way to explain that, I suppose.) Does the same physical Kosh return? I tend to think so. He can “talk” to his buddies if he wants, but I’m not buying the hive mind where all speak as one.
I’m thinking the “noise” could be like radio traffic. Why would he want to go home? So that he could have a F2F? Maybe so that he could have a little
with Mrs. Kosh and spend some time with the little Koshettes?
Think of Trek’s Q. If it was a different Kosh, we would know it, wouldn't we?
Interesting seeing "Bull" Shannon with hair, huh?
I’m not sure I buy the idea of multiple Koshes, interchangeable without “our” notice. I mean, the concept is fine, and I’ve got no real problem with that. But something will happen later that, in a way, denies the it. (Of course, there’s a way to explain that, I suppose.) Does the same physical Kosh return? I tend to think so. He can “talk” to his buddies if he wants, but I’m not buying the hive mind where all speak as one.
I’m thinking the “noise” could be like radio traffic. Why would he want to go home? So that he could have a F2F? Maybe so that he could have a little
with Mrs. Kosh and spend some time with the little Koshettes?Think of Trek’s Q. If it was a different Kosh, we would know it, wouldn't we?
Interesting seeing "Bull" Shannon with hair, huh?
Last edited by Wizdar; 05-20-03 at 08:33 AM.
05-21-03, 06:05 AM
#52
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Thread Starter
Today's Episode: There All the Honor Lies
Summary: Sheridan is assaulted by the Minbari Lovell, and is forced to kill him in self-defense. But a Minbari who witnessed the incident says Sheridan assaulted Lovell - and everybody knows Minbari do not lie.
Link
The second dig at Trek.
Londo holding up his doll, along with his line to Sheridan always cracks me up.
Summary: Sheridan is assaulted by the Minbari Lovell, and is forced to kill him in self-defense. But a Minbari who witnessed the incident says Sheridan assaulted Lovell - and everybody knows Minbari do not lie.
Possible Ranger sighting: When Vir and Londo are talking in the Zocalo, a man in what looks like a Ranger uniform walks by twice.
So after I'd read Peter's script, and decided to go with it, he (JMS) asked about Ivanova's line, "This isn't some kind of Deep Space franchise, this place is ABOUT something."
"Are you really going to use that?" he asked.
"Absolutely," I said. "It's fall-down funny."
Long pause. "You people really ARE dangerous over there, aren't you?"
So after I'd read Peter's script, and decided to go with it, he (JMS) asked about Ivanova's line, "This isn't some kind of Deep Space franchise, this place is ABOUT something."
"Are you really going to use that?" he asked.
"Absolutely," I said. "It's fall-down funny."
Long pause. "You people really ARE dangerous over there, aren't you?"
The second dig at Trek.
Londo holding up his doll, along with his line to Sheridan always cracks me up.
05-21-03, 06:48 AM
#53
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Okay, I need some season 2 advice here.
I have to do some research on a TV show for a class this summer and I need help choosing an episode. I wish I could do War Without End but the S3 box set won't be out in time. Any suggestions on which episode might be best? It could be a S1 episode as well but since this thread it devoted to S2, I figured I'd start there.
I have to do some research on a TV show for a class this summer and I need help choosing an episode. I wish I could do War Without End but the S3 box set won't be out in time. Any suggestions on which episode might be best? It could be a S1 episode as well but since this thread it devoted to S2, I figured I'd start there.
05-22-03, 06:28 AM
#55
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Thread Starter
Today's Episode: And Now for a Word
Summary: We see life on Babylon 5 through the eyes of ISN, supplemented by interviews, statistics and even a few commercials.
NOTE: At the end of the PSI Corp commercial a "subliminal" message flashes over the screen for just long enough to be legal. Though in France the laws were stricter, and the segment had to be cut.
I loved this episode. A complete departure from standard story telling and yet, still continues the overall plot.
Summary: We see life on Babylon 5 through the eyes of ISN, supplemented by interviews, statistics and even a few commercials.
NOTE: At the end of the PSI Corp commercial a "subliminal" message flashes over the screen for just long enough to be legal. Though in France the laws were stricter, and the segment had to be cut.
The fact that the Narn cruiser destroyed a similarly-sized Centauri ship in a one-on-one battle suggests that the two are fairly evenly matched technologically. If the Centauri are indeed crushing the Narn military, as denied by G'Kar, they must have far superior numbers, or frequent help from the Shadows.
One reason for keeping Babylon 5 around was conspicuously absent from Senator Quantrell's list: the planet below the station is one of the most strategically valuable places in the known galaxy, considering what lies beneath its surface (cf. "A Voice in the Wilderness.") Given that the planet's contents were entrusted to the Babylon 5 Advisory Council, it's in everyone's best interest to keep the station up and running.
"Subliminal" text during the Psi Corps ad: "The Psi Corps is your friend. Trust the Corps."
One reason for keeping Babylon 5 around was conspicuously absent from Senator Quantrell's list: the planet below the station is one of the most strategically valuable places in the known galaxy, considering what lies beneath its surface (cf. "A Voice in the Wilderness.") Given that the planet's contents were entrusted to the Babylon 5 Advisory Council, it's in everyone's best interest to keep the station up and running.
"Subliminal" text during the Psi Corps ad: "The Psi Corps is your friend. Trust the Corps."
05-22-03, 06:34 AM
#56
DVD Talk Limited Edition
This is a good episode. This one and A View From The Gallery really shows you can tell a story in a multitude of ways and still get your point across. I never catch the subliminal message, I'm going to have to rewatch the DVD.
05-22-03, 07:26 AM
#57
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One thing I love about this show is that every single episode contains some information that furthers the overall plot developments. There really are no "extraneous" episodes. Sure, there are some that contain momentous plot developments and are more important than others, but I haven't seen one completely useless episode.
Re: "And Now For A Word", I find it fascinating watching Delenn's emotional change since metamorphizing. Talk about character development. Between her and Londo
there's a lot going on with the characters.
Re: "And Now For A Word", I find it fascinating watching Delenn's emotional change since metamorphizing. Talk about character development. Between her and Londo
Spoiler:
05-22-03, 08:09 AM
#58
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Originally posted by Bandoman
One thing I love about this show is that every single episode contains some information that furthers the overall plot developments. There really are no "extraneous" episodes. Sure, there are some that contain momentous plot developments and are more important than others, but I haven't seen one completely useless episode.
Re: "And Now For A Word", I find it fascinating watching Delenn's emotional change since metamorphizing. Talk about character development. Between her and Londo
there's a lot going on with the characters.
One thing I love about this show is that every single episode contains some information that furthers the overall plot developments. There really are no "extraneous" episodes. Sure, there are some that contain momentous plot developments and are more important than others, but I haven't seen one completely useless episode.
Re: "And Now For A Word", I find it fascinating watching Delenn's emotional change since metamorphizing. Talk about character development. Between her and Londo
Spoiler:
heh heh heh --- the fun has only just begun.
05-22-03, 11:21 AM
#61
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Bando, would you prefer “hee hee hee”? 
Really? I’ll have to have another look. IIRC, it was there long enough to obviously not be a subliminal, but to look like it was. Perhaps to include the audience (us) as if we were part of what’s going on.
But, who can figure out the French anyway?
Originally posted by Chew
NOTE: At the end of the PSI Corp commercial a "subliminal" message flashes over the screen for just long enough to be legal. Though in France the laws were stricter, and the segment had to be cut.
NOTE: At the end of the PSI Corp commercial a "subliminal" message flashes over the screen for just long enough to be legal. Though in France the laws were stricter, and the segment had to be cut.
But, who can figure out the French anyway?
05-23-03, 01:15 AM
#62
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Seeker
Bandoman - re characters changing over time...
Bandoman - re characters changing over time...
05-23-03, 06:06 AM
#63
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Thread Starter
Today's Episode: In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
Summary: Sheridan is shocked to learn that one of the crew of the Icarus, a science ship that exploded with his wife aboard, is alive - namely Mr. Morden. And a representative of the Ministry of Peace comes to the station to recruit personnel to the Nightwatch.
NOTE: What really happened to the Icarus is covered in the novel "The Shadow Within" by Jeanne Cavelos.
Link
A very important episode all around. Pay close attention to the exchange bolded above. Night Watch activities and Talia's detection also play an important role in the future.
Summary: Sheridan is shocked to learn that one of the crew of the Icarus, a science ship that exploded with his wife aboard, is alive - namely Mr. Morden. And a representative of the Ministry of Peace comes to the station to recruit personnel to the Nightwatch.
NOTE: What really happened to the Icarus is covered in the novel "The Shadow Within" by Jeanne Cavelos.
Delenn and Kosh tell Sheridan about the Shadows and the Vorlons:
D:
There are beings in the universe billions of years older than either of our races. Once, long ago, they walked among the stars like giants. Vast, timeless... they taught the younger races, explored beyond the Rim, created great empires. But to all things, there is an end. Slowly, over a million years, the First Ones went away. Some passed beyond the stars, never to return. Some simply disappeared.
S:
I'm sure this is all very interesting, but what does any of this have to do with Morden?
D:
Not all of the First Ones have gone away. A few stayed behind. Hidden or asleep, waiting for the day when they may be needed. When the Shadows come again.
S:
Shadows?
D:
We have no other name for them. The Shadows were old when even the ancients were young. They battled one another over and over across a million years. The last Great War against the Shadows was ten thousand years ago. It was the last time the ancients walked openly among us. The Shadows were only defeated, not destroyed. A thousand years ago, the Shadows returned to their places of power, rebuilt them, and began to stretch forth their hand. Before they could strike, they were defeated by an alliance of worlds, including the Minbari and the few remaining First Ones who had not yet passed beyond the veil. When they had finished, the First Ones went away. All but one.
S:
There's still one of them left. Where?
D:
(indicates Kosh, to Sheridan's great surprise) That is why Kosh cannot leave his encounter suit. He would be recognized.
S:
Recognized? By who?
K:
Everyone.
The Earth government has formed a new agency, the Ministry of Peace (nicknamed "Minipax" by its employees,) with the alleged goal of helping reduce internal tensions among the EA's populace. Its first visible action was to establish a program called the Night Watch, paying people 50 credits a week to wear black armbands and report suspicious people to the authorities so that troublemakers can be reformed before they disrupt the peace.
The Night Watch armbands seem more a tool of terror than of peace, reminiscent of the armbands worn by Nazis and other tyrannical regimes, a constant reminder to everyone that they're under observation. The program seems designed to cause people to turn in their neighbors, and it's probably naive to believe that people accused of suspicious behavior (or worse, suspicious "attitudes") will simply be put into therapy and released shortly thereafter. Combined with the Ministry of Public Morale (cf. "And Now For a Word") it suggests the Clark government is more interested in keeping the citizenry under its thumb than anything noble.
Talia was able to detect the Shadows without even trying. It's not clear whether her ability to sense the Shadows was typical for a P5 telepath, or a result of her enhanced abilities (cf. "Mind War.")
D:
There are beings in the universe billions of years older than either of our races. Once, long ago, they walked among the stars like giants. Vast, timeless... they taught the younger races, explored beyond the Rim, created great empires. But to all things, there is an end. Slowly, over a million years, the First Ones went away. Some passed beyond the stars, never to return. Some simply disappeared.
S:
I'm sure this is all very interesting, but what does any of this have to do with Morden?
D:
Not all of the First Ones have gone away. A few stayed behind. Hidden or asleep, waiting for the day when they may be needed. When the Shadows come again.
S:
Shadows?
D:
We have no other name for them. The Shadows were old when even the ancients were young. They battled one another over and over across a million years. The last Great War against the Shadows was ten thousand years ago. It was the last time the ancients walked openly among us. The Shadows were only defeated, not destroyed. A thousand years ago, the Shadows returned to their places of power, rebuilt them, and began to stretch forth their hand. Before they could strike, they were defeated by an alliance of worlds, including the Minbari and the few remaining First Ones who had not yet passed beyond the veil. When they had finished, the First Ones went away. All but one.
S:
There's still one of them left. Where?
D:
(indicates Kosh, to Sheridan's great surprise) That is why Kosh cannot leave his encounter suit. He would be recognized.
S:
Recognized? By who?
K:
Everyone.
The Earth government has formed a new agency, the Ministry of Peace (nicknamed "Minipax" by its employees,) with the alleged goal of helping reduce internal tensions among the EA's populace. Its first visible action was to establish a program called the Night Watch, paying people 50 credits a week to wear black armbands and report suspicious people to the authorities so that troublemakers can be reformed before they disrupt the peace.
The Night Watch armbands seem more a tool of terror than of peace, reminiscent of the armbands worn by Nazis and other tyrannical regimes, a constant reminder to everyone that they're under observation. The program seems designed to cause people to turn in their neighbors, and it's probably naive to believe that people accused of suspicious behavior (or worse, suspicious "attitudes") will simply be put into therapy and released shortly thereafter. Combined with the Ministry of Public Morale (cf. "And Now For a Word") it suggests the Clark government is more interested in keeping the citizenry under its thumb than anything noble.
Talia was able to detect the Shadows without even trying. It's not clear whether her ability to sense the Shadows was typical for a P5 telepath, or a result of her enhanced abilities (cf. "Mind War.")
A very important episode all around. Pay close attention to the exchange bolded above. Night Watch activities and Talia's detection also play an important role in the future.
05-23-03, 08:56 AM
#65
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I love the Lurker's Guide. I go there to read about each episode after I watch it, and it really helps me pull together my thoughts and questions.
My favrotie JMS quote so far (re: "The Fall of Night"):
My favrotie JMS quote so far (re: "The Fall of Night"):
Spoiler:
05-23-03, 10:38 AM
#66
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Originally posted by Bandoman
I finished watching season 2 last night, and all I can say is: bring on season 3! NOW! (August seems so very far away.)
I finished watching season 2 last night, and all I can say is: bring on season 3! NOW! (August seems so very far away.)
05-23-03, 11:22 AM
#68
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by Bandoman
I finished watching season 2 last night, and all I can say is: bring on season 3! NOW! (August seems so very far away.)
I finished watching season 2 last night, and all I can say is: bring on season 3! NOW! (August seems so very far away.)
05-23-03, 02:42 PM
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How can you "could" if you can't because you don't? Have. Cable.
Never mind.
I think you can safely get away with watching the blooper reel now. There’s a great one of Londo.
I haven’t listened to the two JMS commentaries yet, but it’s a sure bet they are not spoiler free.
Never mind.
I think you can safely get away with watching the blooper reel now. There’s a great one of Londo.
I haven’t listened to the two JMS commentaries yet, but it’s a sure bet they are not spoiler free.
05-23-03, 03:11 PM
#71
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Bandoman
I finished watching season 2 last night, and all I can say is: bring on season 3! NOW! (August seems so very far away.)
I finished watching season 2 last night, and all I can say is: bring on season 3! NOW! (August seems so very far away.)
05-23-03, 03:35 PM
#72
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Originally posted by Wizdar
I think you can safely get away with watching the blooper reel now. There’s a great one of Londo.
I think you can safely get away with watching the blooper reel now. There’s a great one of Londo.
Spoiler:
What special features can I watch? Which disc has the bloopers? Do both seaons 1 and 2 have bloopers?
05-23-03, 04:27 PM
#74
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Bandoman
I've been avoiding all special features for fear of being spoilerized
What special features can I watch? Which disc has the bloopers? Do both seaons 1 and 2 have bloopers?
I've been avoiding all special features for fear of being spoilerized
What special features can I watch? Which disc has the bloopers? Do both seaons 1 and 2 have bloopers?