This episode sucked hard. I mean, I know it's the world of "24" and all kind of wacky coincidences happen but they really pushed it over the edge, jumped the shark and into the concrete wall this episode. Start with Michelle's idiotic brother plot, which was telegraphed so a blind and deaf person saw it coming, and then the lame attack on the two at the end (right before, my wife said, "This is where they beat up the Middle Eastern guy"). Very sloppy work. The plot contrivances here play so obviously like elements thrown in by lazy writers to slow down the plot rather than actions happening naturally as a result of the plot. If it weren't so near the end of the season this episode would nearly single-handedly get me off watching this show. It's really gone downhill since they blew up the bomb, which might turn out to be season 2's pinnacle moment. I could care less about CTU intrigue and Alameda's love life and President Palmer's cabinet mutiny, and the main reason I watch the show, Keifer Sutherland, spent most of the episode strung up with a stick in his mouth.

Anybody with a jones for seeing naked men tortured had had a lot of fun this season...

At this point, who would you rather see doing porn, Michelle or Kim?

Michelle. Cutie-pie brunette good girls are always great to see when they finally cut loose

Plus, I don't know about E. Cuthbert, but Kim Bauer would almost certainly have the rigging fall and pin her underneath it, or be kidnapped by the craft services guy when they stopped for a cigarette break...

I couldn't believe how quickly this episode went. It harkened back to the early days of 24 and that sense of urgency that's been missing for quite a while.

I was sort of disappointed in Mike turning on Palmer (but I knew it for sure once he dismissed the "informant" so easily, and that Lynn left herself wide open for "detainment"). But I was wondering why Lynn didn't try her cell phone (I know she has to be carrying one on her person).

So, anyhow, the coup is on schedule.

Jack's torture was pretty brutal stuff. But I'm confident he'll be revived.

Things do look bad for Youssef and Kate, but I expect some law enforcement to show up in the nick of time, or Kate recovers and finds the gun and starts peppering rednecks.

It was a decent episode, not the worst of the series (think back to the amnesia angle of Season One for that). Great that there was no Kim. Why force her into the storyline when there is no place for her?

When the guy torturing Jack said that "You have a daughter", I thought "great, Kim get ready to be kidnapped AGAIN!". I really hpoe that I don't see Kim unless the last show, when she gets to see Jack again (or when her stumpy boyfriend kills her in a fit of rage - either would be good).

I have no words....

the plot holes at this point are astounding. I find myself nostalgic for a good amnesia arc. Someone last week said it was like improv writing and I am starting to believe it is true. It's like the Miller catfight commersial with the guys all sitting around going "..and then, the president finds out it's all been a hoax, but no one knows for sure, and then, his whole cabinet turns against him, and then, like, jack gets captured, and then, uh.., yeah, tortured, and then he dies, but he doesn't really die, and then, everyones all, like, freaking out and everyone's like all mad and stuff and we have a big chase and then *makes gun noises and bomb blasts with mouth* and then, like, there's kissing and her brother comes to CTU and so THEY are all like freakin out too, and then, uh, and then.... uh, yeah, that'd be cool..." "But none of that makes any sense, bob." "Nah, it'll be way cool!"

ugh....

I hope they don't kill off Yusef, I've been really loving his character. He is mighty fine to look at. I wouldn't mind seeing a whole show or movie about his secret agent character.

Does anyone know the actor's name?

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Keshawarz,%20Donnie

What's wrong with both?

Kim!

Kim by far. Michelle is a bit too mousy for me. Kim looked great in those Maxim, or Stuff, of FHM, or whatever magazine it was last year...

Decent episode. Not at all surprised to see Mike turn on the Pres.

I think everyone just need to stop nitpicking every single thing and enjoy the show for what it's worth. If you all know so much and can figure out everything that is going to happen then don't watch it since you already know.

I'd hate to sit next to anyone like this in a movie theatre or even want to see what they think a "good" show is. Just enjoy the show. "ugh"

They list his "24" credits as occurring in 2001. Neat trick, since the show wasn't created yet.

Applying the same logic, if you don't like the thread you don't have to read it or post in it...

We pick the show apart because it is so good and we expect so much from it. The fact that people care enough to discuss it to this length demonstrates the show's appeal, IMO.

The show debuted in Fall 2001. The year given by IMDB on TV credits is the year the show debuted, not the year the actor appeared on the show.

So...can anybody explain the "20,000 casualties" thing to me? Or am the only one who zones out during the "political intrigue" scenes?

The 20,000 casualties figure is just something to scare Palmer into launching the strike. It's sort of lame.

They were saying that by waiting, they would lose the element of surprise and thereby encounter a more prepared enemy in the "three countries". Somehow they translated that to 20,000 more casualties than if they strike now.

Early on in the episode, his advisors mentioned to Palmer that a delay in military action could cause an additional 20,000 troops killed.....

Okay...now I understand. I thought they were saying that 20,000 troops would somehow die if Palmer pulled out.

Cool episode. I have no problem with the show being lame or silly at times, I would expect that, in fact, that's what makes it what it is and one of the reasons I watch it. It makes me laugh much more than the show's creators probably would expect.

I think what annoys me the most is that we get these subplots that go nowhere, and have no influence on the main storyline whatsoever. Whether you are a fan of Tom Clancy or not, one thing he does successfully is introduce 6-10 different subplots and they all seem to tie in to the main storyline at the climax of the book. With 24, things are brought up and resolved for no reason at all, and they don't do anything but fill time. This isn't a soap opera where you're OK with different storylines that aren't related. I want to see Jack Bauer, I couldn't care less about the abusive father/husband or his whining daughter, the weird guy who lives in the cabin, the convenience store owner who gets shot, Kim's boyfriend who needs a kickstand, Michelle's brother, etc. Especially when they have absolutely nothing to do with the main story.

I like the show - but last night's lameness can not be denied.

From the brother incident - to the last minute beating up of Yuseff and Kate by random rednecks at 2 am (look, he's wearing a John Deere hat, he must be a racist redneck).

If I was in a script writing class and turned this in, I'd get an F - and deservedly so.