first episode i ever watched of angel and only watched it to see faith. was this a terrible episode to get in on? and is this show seeing signs of ending along with buffy? also are there usually little things like angel's phone call connecting the 2 shows? i watch buffy and do not recall many after season 4.

Not really. Willow called at the start of last season to tell Angel Buffy was alive but that's about all I can remember.

Oh man I think I called it. I said something to the effect of Cordy is under someone's power and slept with Connor to get his sperm. And to think I was mocked for guessing that.

Angelus is officially smarter than all the good guys. Combined. He realized the phones in LA can, in fact, call Sunnydale. Good for him.

Faith! That's all I have to say about that.

EvilCordy is creeping me out. Just... ew.

Angelus taking out the Beast didn't surprise me too much. He's always been a backstabber. And it makes sense to me that he'd want The Beast out of the picture, so that he could move up in the ranks.

Angel the TV show is much better than Buffy the TV show this year.

Some thoughts:

-I dont think that is the real Cordy. I think the real cordy is still in that other dimension.

-Faith kicked mucho butt

-Angel or Angelus? considering that angelus has yet to kill anyone and has killed a vampire and a major beast, maybe its angel after all?? maybe he knows that cordy is evil and is just going along to see what he can find out about her.

-Connor being impressed with the slayer was kinda cool.

-Wes rocked too

I'm thinking Angelus, because I don't think Angel would have fed off of Lilah's corpse. And if he were only pretending to be evil, he would have found some way to make sure everybody knew Angel(us) didn't kill Lilah, and to keep an eye out because there was an enemy in the Hyperion.

::Sigh:: The return of Faith was all that I had hoped. She retains her kick ass and take names attitude, but with an air of calm that she never had before. I guess prison does change people. Although, really her rehabilitation began before all that. I loved what she said about Angel never giving up on her. If Eliza wasn't going to go off and have a non-Whedon career, I would love to see her work with Angel. Ah well. That's not gonna happen.

Absolutely adored Wes saying he was "five by five". Bits of continuity make me a happy fangirl. Connor showed more spirit and verve tonight, although he still annoys me. I enjoyed his fascination with Faith the Vampire Slayer. (Man, was that odd to hear.)

Cordelia is so very evil and wrong. I just cannot believe that is really Cordy. I'm hoping this is some bizarre offshoot of the First's wicked plan. Unfortunately, we are all too aware of her very corporeal being via sex with Connor. And speaking of evil, I am confused as to the logical reason for Angelus killing the Beast. Was there one and I missed it? I did get a phone call right about then. Stupid people who don't listen to my mandated "Don't call me at these times". Anyway, about him killing the Beast...was it just because he figured it out and wanted to test his theory? Was it because he likes to be Numero Uno on the "To Fear" list? Just curious and it certainly didn't ruin a fine episode for me. I'm sure I'll suss it out when I re-watch.

But Lilah, oh Lilah. You have long been my favorite villain. I will miss you, o' gloriously nasty one. Your line "There's a signed dollar bill in your wallet that will prove different" brought a tear to my eye. You're right. Wesley couldn't save you, but then he didn't try very hard either. You weren't his prize so his eyes were never really on you. [This is the part where it's weird that I'm talking to a fictional tv character, huh?]

As I have said in all of my episodic thoughts, I continue to adore this show and long for its renewal.

I remain perplexed and I like it here. Ignorance is bliss and there is none better to agree than me.

ITA with all the reasons you listed.

~wis

I agree w/ people regarding Cordy - I don't think that it's really her either.

Angelus' backstabbing last night was classic - great TV, imo.

If you were watching it for Faith, you may want to watch the first season DVDs to see how she fits into the Angel world. The first season probably isn't as good as last year and this year, but in the Angel world, it has some history you probably need to make some of this stuff make sense. I think it also gets you introduced to how Angel, Cordy, Wes, Faith, and Gun (&Liliah?) fit into the Angel world. It doesn't introduce you to Fred or Conner, though. It also gives more info on the Powers that Be.

There were a lot more crossovers and references back then, too. Not as many recently.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...01#post3020601

Phase one is complete.

Anyway, liked the episode. Really tired of the scenes with "Cordy" though, particularly kissing The Beast. It was pointless and gratuitous. Some of Faith's scenes were awkward, but mostly it was very effective. Wesley's invoking the "5 x 5" was great. I also like how they made an effort to explain why they asked Faith for help and not Buffy. Even though it was hardly convincing on any level, at least they tried.

das

is Angelus really supposed to be a way better fighter than Angel ?

Faith totally rocks!

i so badly want to see the entire cast of Buffy and Angel together in an episode just one last time !

Are you talking about the fact that Angel never gave up on Faith, but essentially did give up on Buffy?

Ever watch a show that puts a big smile on your face throughout most of the episode? That was last night's episode of Angel with the return of Faith.

But while watching it, I have to say that we are waist deep in a live-action comic book soap opera. This show is now a guilty pleasure for me.

Faith breaking out of prison was just nuts. I still have no idea how Wesley walked away from that jump out of the window and landing on the cop car (even if Faith took much of the impact).

The beast throwing Faith around like a rag doll was tough to watch at times, and I have my doubts that Faith would have been able to do much against the beast had Angelus not intervined.

EvilCordy moving on to Connor for her next "beast/minion/protector/flunkie" was predictable turn. But I suspect Connor will get to try to kill Angel because his loyalties will be with the mother of his child, and not Angel and the gang.

I do think the actors (both Boreanaz and Carpenter) are enjoying being playing the bad guys. Their acting seems to be up a notch nowadays.

Faith rocked, and was drop dead gorgeous. But then again, when is she not? I know that's just my opinion, but hey, isn't that all that matters.
I also agree with another poster about Cordy and Angelus, interesting to see that the two leads of this series when it began are now its major bad guys. Shame other shows haven't tried a swerve like that before.

I absolutely loved every minute of this episode... well, every minute until the preggers plot twist. That's sort of cheesy, but the rest is so good I am wiling to ride it out. Plus, I just came off my first viewing of Buffy S3 and that storyline flows into this one perfectly. It was good timing to realease that when they did. There are SO many paralels there and it becomes more like a Faith arc than a Buffy one in a way. Anyhoo...

I am jumping on the "Angel-In-Disguise" bandwagon. I called it last night about half way through. True, he fed on Lila, but she was already dead. He might have done that just to throw everyone off what he really knew. I think he wants to draw attention to himself to keep everyone distracted and make the real Big Bad feel safe and get clumsy. Remember, Angel is a detective at heart. Plus, there are lots of Joss tricks that usually mean to throw you off. Like Angel continually almost killing a human and never quite going through with it. Like him letting the Beast bang on Faith when he wouldn't really touch her. Just remember how convincing he was when he and Buffy tricked Faith.

Just some food for debate.

Oh, and the call to Dawn was a great touch and a brilliant way to reference Buffy without saying her name. Made us giggle like kids.

I'd have to agree with the Angel/Angelus angle, he just doesn't seem as evil as he was back in the early Buffy run.

With the whole WB-related ban of even mentioning the word Buffy , I thought the phone call was awesome.

"Oh, it's the other one........"

nahhh, thats not the Real Cordy but where is the real one and why is she can not help in the other demension?

Loved the part where Wes was hearing Lilah talk to him. I really wish they hadnt killed here. I loved to Hate her. If they were going to kill anyone I wish it would have been the one dimessional Connor.

Time to bring Lindsay back.


Since there seems to be allot of people tuning into see Faith, maybe they will see that this show is good enough to keep watching and maybe the WB/FOX will see that this show deserves yet another season.

Drama nd action like this makes it better than crap like the Big screen Daredevil.

On person asked if the cast were going to join up and I think thats happening on the last episode of Buffy. Most of them anyway.

How in the HELL did Wesley survive falling THREE STORIES onto a car?

I guess I'd understand if Faith broke his fall - but he fell right beside her, not on top of her.

Otherwise - awesome episode!

I'm not, and if they do that I'm going to be very annoyed.

The reason is because we have seen scenes with Angelus being Angelus when no one else was around to see it. Specifically, when he first gets out and comments on how the demons are taking over. He was acting like Angelus and no one was there to see it.

That's why I buy evil Cordelia. Because I don't think we have seen her in a scene by herself since she came back.

And I'm hoping it actualy IS Cordelia, but I doubt ME has the cajones to turn a major character permanently into a bad guy.

Any numbers from last night yet?

BTW - I enjoy a good discussion on the whole Angelus/Angel angle as anyone else - but he's definitly Angelus and NOT Angel because sorry.

I was about to use that as proof myself, as well as the fact that he was acting like Angelus when he was alone. Also,

I guess they won't break the full news to Buffy about current goings on, and with good reason. I doubt she would react favorably to learning that Angel mated with Darla, produced a son, who in turn knocked up Cordy. On top of that Team Angel proceeds to bring back Angelus thus necessitating the return of Faith. Also, Cordy is now an evil b*tch.

In unrelated news, did you know that David Boreanaz read for the part of Superman in the new movie? He was allegedly all set to make a three picture deal but his shooting schedule with Angel would conflict.
Now, why would he turn down a plum movie role with a great future for a show that may or may not return? Could it be he knows something we don't about the future? At the risk of being flamed, I love the show Angel, but I think that DB is one of the few people I can picture as the Man of Steel. Certainly better than the current choice of Josh Hartnett!
Here's hoping that he didn't burn any bridges with WB over the character and leaves room open should the part open back up. Hey, with the way these Superman movies are moving, look for it to fall apart yet again before getting in the air (no pun intended).

Not to conjure a frightening mental image, but how about this for a Buffy/Angel spin-off








"Dawn Loves Connor!"
Follow the romance of two whiney lovers week in and week out as they try to battle evil in their own idiotic ways.!

Scary, ain't it!

3.7/ 5 for this ep.

Boreanaz is a better fit to play Batman, than Superman, anyhow.