Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > TV Talk
Reload this Page >

HELP! I NEED STAR TREK TECH INFO on...

TV Talk Talk about Shows on TV

HELP! I NEED STAR TREK TECH INFO on...

Old 10-03-01, 06:37 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Godfather
Thread Starter
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 57,598
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
HELP! I NEED STAR TREK TECH INFO on...

FOOD REPLICATORS...

How do they work? Do they need a substance to replicate from or does it work in another way.....

I don't remember ships having to have stores of "GEL" to make food from. But a friend said they do. I do know the replicators RECYCLE things like uneaten food and the dishes they were served on.

Elektra? Das? Somebody?

Last edited by Giantrobo; 10-03-01 at 06:45 PM.
Old 10-03-01, 06:45 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY
Posts: 29,706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
it's transporter technology
transporters convert matter into energy, beam the energy somewhere and turn it back into matter

replicators can either use energy and turn it into matter, or convert some base matter into energy then convert that energy into what ever you want made.
sometimes they show people putting their dishes back into the replicator where they are turned back into energy
also some think that the waste recycling system (toilets) simply convert the crap into energy for the replicators
Old 10-03-01, 06:47 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Godfather
Thread Starter
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 57,598
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally posted by mikehunt
it's transporter technology
transporters convert matter into energy, beam the energy somewhere and turn it back into matter

replicators can either use energy and turn it into matter, or convert some base matter into energy then convert that energy into what ever you want made.
sometimes they show people putting their dishes back into the replicator where they are turned back into energy
Yeah I was editing my post when you posted concerning the RECYCLING handled by relicators.

But what about ships having to store "GEL" to give the units something to wrok from? I don't think this is the case.

link?

Last edited by Giantrobo; 10-03-01 at 07:23 PM.
Old 10-03-01, 07:02 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: new england
Posts: 8,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't know for sure, but the boytoy says that it does needs some sort of matter as source material to work with.
Old 10-03-01, 07:05 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY
Posts: 29,706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
sorry no links, basing it on memory from episodes and the ST encyclopedia. I don't think they have to use stored matter, but I think they try to do so to use less power
On voyager they limited replicator use to save power (and give neelix a job )

Originally posted by Giantrobo


Yeah I was editing my post when you posted concerning the RECYCLING handled by relicators.

But what about ships haveing to store "GEL" to give the units something to wrok from? I don't think this is the case.

link?
Old 10-03-01, 07:23 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Portland
Posts: 8,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Are you going to build one?

Old 10-03-01, 07:25 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Godfather
Thread Starter
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 57,598
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally posted by renaldow
Are you going to build one?



If I had the wherewithal to build one, I wouldn't be hanging out on the 'Net all day
Old 10-03-01, 08:20 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Godfather
Thread Starter
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 57,598
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
oh well....I guess no one knows
Old 10-03-01, 08:24 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Godfather
Thread Starter
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 57,598
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Here's one theory form:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...d/replicat.htm

Replicators

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"How do replicators work?"

Replicators are based on transporter technology. A sample object is first "scanned" into the memory of a computer. Because even a simple object takes up an enormous amount of memory, the object is only resolved at a molecular level, not a quantum level. Further, the data must be compressed using a lossy algorithm, meaning that small, undetectable approximations are made to the data. This gives the computer a pattern to create a duplicate of the original. (TNG TM)

Starships have a small supply of bulk material that is constantly recycled into needed materials and items. When a request is made at a replicator terminal, the waveguide conduit system on the ship relays a small amount of bulk material to the replicator, which uses it to create the materials called for in the pattern. The object is then beamed in at the terminal.


"Can replicators transmute elements?"

Yes... sort of. There have been occasions on the show where some required element cannot be replicated. The Tech Manual talks about "quantum transformational manipulation", so they can do some quantum twiddling to get new elements. However, it also says that the energy costs are high for all forms of replication, and that food, since it's usually just different arrangements of the same basic things (water, proteins, lipids), is more practical to replicate from bulk matter than to store.

In TNG "Night Terrors", when a certain substance is needed, Data says "We no longer have the power to reproduce complex elements in the replicator." This is evidence for the above.


"What about gold-pressed latinum?"

See above about energy costs and certain elements. It may be that 24th century technology can't transmute, say, elements above 140, and that latinum (in gold-pressed form) is a stable metal somewhere up there. Or, alternatively, it could take *exactly* the same amount of energy to replicate as it takes to mine / manufacture, making it a good standard for monetary transactions.

Another theory is that replicators are not able to replicate gold-pressed latinum, or else it wouldn't be so important to the Ferengi and other profit-motivated races. If we go with the theory that it doesn't create matter from energy, but gets the matter from bins filled with various elements, then one would need gold and latinum raw materials from which to make the gold-pressed latinum in the first place, so nothing would be gained.


"What happens to the drinking glasses when they're done with them?"

The empty glasses, plates, etc, are put back in the replicator terminal (TNG "Timescape"), and returned as raw materials to the bulk matter store. It would make sense if they were only disassembled on the molecular level, as the energy needed to reform new glasses would be much lower than if they were broken down to the atomic level or quantum level.


"Why don't they use replicators to do instant ship repair?"

For minor repair, it might be feasible, but we rarely see any sort of repairs actually being done. When Geordi says "30 minutes at least, Captain", they might be replicating various components and using a transporter-effected swapout. Recall, however, that the transporters and replicators use a lot of power. The replicators go off-line in Alert situations, for example. It would be foolish to rely on such a system to repair the ship in emergencies, but it is doubtless used at other time.

For large scale repair, I think the TNG Tech Manual says it best: "... if you could make a starship at the touch of a button, you wouldn't need to..."


"Can you make two Datas with the replicator?"

No. It is not possible (with 24th century technology, at least) to replicate something at the quantum level. First, the amount of information needed to define a living, thinking being at that level of detail is incredibly large, far surpassing the computer capacity of any 24th century database. (TNG TM). Presumably, Data and other Soong-type androids which use positronic brains have components which function at a quantum, or sub-molecular level which cannot be easily replicated.

Secondly, there is no way to scan at quantum resolution without destroying the subject. The transporter ACB need not know the precise details of every particle being transported - where they are and what they are doing is enough. Further, attempting to retrieve such information from the ACB would destroy it.

To duplicate a living being, a hypothetical effect, which I call an Annular Confinement Beam-Splitter, would be needed. As the ACB was passed through it, along with a supply of raw phased matter, it would duplicate the ACB's contents in the raw stream.
Old 10-03-01, 08:47 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY
Posts: 29,706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
about gold pressed latinum,
latinum is a liquid, looks like mercury(episode where morn is storing latinum in his extra stomach), it is some how combined with (worthless in Quarks words) gold and made into slips, strips, bars and bricks
Old 10-03-01, 09:17 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: new england
Posts: 8,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Geez, I thought das would have been able to answer this by now. Where are you dude?
Old 10-03-01, 10:39 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by elektra
Geez, I thought das would have been able to answer this by now. Where are you dude?
Sorry about that ... I usually don't read threads that are in ALL CAPS, but I got curious with it being about Star Trek, so I just now stumbled in here. Looks like they have it all figured out though. The key to all of it is on the quantum level. A transporter beams quantum data - it doesn't copy it. A replicator copies approximated molecular data. As for "gel", who knows how it appears -- goo or solid -- but yeah, there's a reserve of base matter used to get things going, but for the most part, everything is replicated from recycled matter and energy. There's also a certain amount of preprocessing, as much of the required matter is of the same basic form. But most of that is already explained in the other posts, so no point in me rambling on about it all.

das
Old 10-04-01, 12:04 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Broomfield, CO, USA
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Now, if anyone can tell me how the doors work. I can never figure out how the doors know when to open and close. A person could be standing there with the door open. How does the door know they're not passing by? A little tidbit that always bothers me when I see it....
Old 10-04-01, 12:46 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 123,190
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
I never understood why they needed replicators on the original Trek. All they ate were those multi-colored cubes.
Old 10-04-01, 02:51 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY
Posts: 29,706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't think they had actual replicators on the original trek

Originally posted by Red Dog
I never understood why they needed replicators on the original Trek. All they ate were those multi-colored cubes.
Old 10-04-01, 03:01 PM
  #16  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by mikehunt:
I don't think they had actual replicators on the original trek

Oh yes they did (but they also had chefs, too ["Charlie X", STAR TREK VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY]--weird. The latter was probably nice for PR missions). In the mess hall, officers were often seen going to a section of the wall that usually had three or four panels. They would stick one of those square memory diskettes that were also oft seen on the bridge (in this case, presumably with detailed "how to create a chicken sandwich from bulk matter" instructions for the computer) into a slot, which was followed by a couple of seconds of blinking lights and "chirps" then, voila!, a hot chicken sandwich!

Also, to add to the original question--it was always my understanding (though unstated on the show, for obvious reasons) that the food was primarily generated from the molecular deconstruction, via transporter technology, of the human waste product on the ship. That's right, Spock was eating McCoy's turds. Maybe it was in one of the novels...? In any case, it's kind of a gross thought, but makes perfect sense when you really mull it over...

Last edited by Filmmaker; 10-04-01 at 03:05 PM.
Old 10-04-01, 03:25 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: 11.6 miles away from Orange County Choppers
Posts: 6,556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I do believe in undiscovered country they also hit a whole container full of mashed potatoes. SO....I believe it was the Vulcan
Spoiler:
TRAITOR!!!!
Old 10-04-01, 05:59 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Filmmaker
Originally posted by mikehunt:
[i]They would stick one of those square memory diskettes that were also oft seen on the bridge (in this case, presumably with detailed "how to create a chicken sandwich from bulk matter" instructions for the computer) into a slot, which was followed by a couple of seconds of blinking lights and "chirps" then, voila!, a hot chicken sandwich!
It always amazed me how close in size they were to a 3.5" floppy.
Originally posted by das Monkey
I usually don't read threads that are in ALL CAPS
Somehow they are inferior?

I think I may have the same problem with threads that have "please read" in them...

Last edited by Wizdar; 10-04-01 at 06:01 PM.
Old 10-04-01, 06:15 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Wizdar
It always amazed me how close in size they were to a 3.5" floppy.
Somehow they are inferior?

I think I may have the same problem with threads that have "please read" in them...
I didn't say that. It's just that if everyone used ALL CAPS to draw attention to their threads, it'd get really ugly in here. It's a personal choice, like not showing someone who runs on the baseball field on TV. I think this is just something that's developed over time for me. Typically, people who type in ALL CAPS don't have anything genuine to say and are just trying to get attention. Knowing Giantrobo's style, this doesn't describe him, but after 11+ years of posting on boards/BBSes/IRC, you develop a knee-jerk negative reaction to ALL CAPS, which is why, I didn't jump to click on this thread. Probably a flaw in my personality, but nonetheless, that's why I was slow coming in here and will likely be slow in any such thread.

das
Old 10-04-01, 08:51 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ok I think I learned way too much about transporters. Thou since I sim I may want to copy it for future use. With everyone's persmission of course
Old 10-04-01, 10:23 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 13,235
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
From the Updated and Expanded Star Trek Encyclopedia:

"Flashback" (VGR) establishes that replicators were not in use aboard Federation starships in Captain Kirk's day, suggesting the food slots on his ship were some kind of mechanical delivery or preparation system.


One can argue about retroactive continuity till your face turns blue, but it takes some of the romance and drama out of TOS if they were replicators. It just seems more "dangerous" to me if there were only a limited supply of certain foods on board. Like if everybody ate all the lobster up in the first month, and had to live on PB&J for the last six months of the mission. Can you say mutiny? Can you say drama? I knew you could

And going with the last bit of the above explanation, I seem to recall reading another theory about the food being dehydrated or something and the slots were re-hydrators, like the pizza thing in Back to the Future 2.
Old 10-08-01, 01:01 PM
  #22  
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Springfield MA
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That's impossible. No mechanical process could render the food in ONE SECOND. Of course there are so many inconsitencies you can't really debate it. In one ep there was a food replicator IN THE TRANSPORTER ROOM. No other ep had that. But when the general asked for chicken soup, amazingly one of the 4 cards in their hand happened to be for chicken soup And it was INSTANTLY delivered, hot and steamy. Even transporting a pre-made bowl of soup from another location to the food replicator would take longer than that as you know how long it takes something to dematerialize then materialize.

And don't forget that in Charlie X they were shocked that all of a sudden there were REAL turkeys in the system. If they are not replicators and they don't use real food, what do they use?
Old 10-08-01, 01:59 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: wishing I was in Vegas
Posts: 6,646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Riker
And don't forget that in Charlie X they were shocked that all of a sudden there were REAL turkeys in the system. If they are not replicators and they don't use real food, what do they use?
Thatís VERY interesting! Somebody needs to put that episode in and find out what the term is, cuz I remember somebody saying something to the effect that thereís turkeys in the food replicators.
Of course there are so many inconsitencies you can't really debate it.
Youíre new to Trek, arenít you.


Old 10-08-01, 05:46 PM
  #24  
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Springfield MA
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Wizdar
Thatís VERY interesting! Somebody needs to put that episode in and find out what the term is, cuz I remember somebody saying something to the effect that thereís turkeys in the food replicators.


Youíre new to Trek, arenít you.
Was that ep released on DVD yet? I'll see if I can find it on Morpheus or something...

And NO, I am not new to Trek, quite the opposite in fact. I've been a fan since the first ep I saw in the early 70s, have been to millions of conventions, was a member of Starfleet, etc, etc. Why would my TRUE statement that there are so many inconsistencies in Trek (that it even has it's own word: YATI) that you can't debate a subject because of conflicting information make me a Trek newbie?
Old 10-08-01, 05:58 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
didnt read the whole thread so not sure what the question is but they dont use real meat as in its not from an animal, it's synthesized.

there's an episode of TNG where they have feuding aliens on the ship and one delegation eats a member of the other one and says its okay cuz the enterprise eats meat, but they say it aint real meat

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.