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The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Old 03-07-19, 03:22 PM
  #26  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
It seems Torrance Libraries haven't partnered with these as of yet but it's in discussion. But I think My wife has an LA Card.

Hearing that the Libraries have to pay $3 per film on Hoopla made me feel weird. I mean, do they pay anything when they let you borrow discs directly from them?

Depends. They get funds from the city budget to purchase, or grants, etc. On the brightside of things, as far as Torrance library goes - last I checked, was that they have a pretty awesome Blu-ray collection. A colleague told me that they knew the librarian that was in charge of ordering media collection and that he was a big cinemaphile.

As far as Kanopy and Hoopla goes - I had to go to my nearest LA County branch and nearest LA City branch to get cards from.
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Old 03-07-19, 03:24 PM
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
That money probably comes out of the budget the city gives the library if I had to guess.

Discs are either bought with the money they're given or donated, so I don't think they have to pay anything for that.

Not necessarily donations. It takes time and money in order to get donations into the system that unless it's some high want or it's replacing a missing copy, will get passed on. Donations are usually funneled to the Friends of the Library organization, where proceeds are used to fund services, repairs, programs, and materials for the library.
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Old 03-08-19, 12:41 AM
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

I've been having some issues with Hoopla. I haven't used it since I got my library card about a month ago and set up an account, but tried watching something today and keep getting this message:

The collective daily borrow limit set by your library has been reached and will reset at midnight. Please browse and add titles to favorites so you can easily access them after midnight.
It says I can borrow up to 6 titles and have yet to borrow one yet. I don't know what this issue is.
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Old 03-08-19, 04:15 AM
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
It says I can borrow up to 6 titles and have yet to borrow one yet. I don't know what this issue is.
Look in the "Borrowed" section to see if anything is in there. Maybe it somehow linked your account to someone else. Is there a way to contact customer service?
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Old 03-08-19, 09:04 AM
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

I was looking to start digging in to the old school Disney catalog with my 5-year old last night and ran into the issue as well. This morning, I was able to borrow Babes in Toyland with no problem, so I'm guessing it was a glitch on hoopla's end.
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Old 03-20-19, 12:38 PM
  #31  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Interesting perspective on Kanopy. I can't verify the specifics here, but this person is saying that many titles are now restricted access only; meaning they show up in the app, but when you try to play them, a message comes up saying "your library has limited access" and you can apparently contact your library directly to access it.

These licensing fees that she mentions seem crazy to me. If this is legitimate, then this is really bad for libraries, I would think, especially in smaller library networks with less funding. Anyone here know how any of this stuff actually works in order to verify/dispute this claim?

edit: Kate is a lecturer at Harvard, for what it's worth.

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Old 03-20-19, 01:41 PM
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

It’s a nice service, but what’s the big deal if the library’s just stop offering it? If it costs that much they should drop it.
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Old 03-20-19, 01:58 PM
  #33  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

That's why I noticed they limit you to 6 "borrows" per month. Watching 1 TV episode also counts towards a "borrow" Probably to help limit the costs of the library.

I'm not worried about Kanopy in my area. It's the Orange County library system in my area and it's a huge network in Orange County, CA. If you live in a much smaller town, I can see this being an issue with their budgets.
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Old 03-20-19, 03:20 PM
  #34  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Interesting perspective on Kanopy. I can't verify the specifics here, but this person is saying that many titles are now restricted access only; meaning they show up in the app, but when you try to play them, a message comes up saying "your library has limited access" and you can apparently contact your library directly to access it.

These licensing fees that she mentions seem crazy to me. If this is legitimate, then this is really bad for libraries, I would think, especially in smaller library networks with less funding. Anyone here know how any of this stuff actually works in order to verify/dispute this claim?

edit: Kate is a lecturer at Harvard, for what it's worth.

https://twitter.com/Cinement/status/1108358008076189698
Is Kate an actual librarian or does she work for a library system? I have not clicked on her profile, so I'm just asking in general.


EDIT - I just read the tweets - looks like it may be isolated to small systems in small towns. I should also say that I have not accessed my Kanopy, so I can't confirm if I got that message. My library system does not subscribe to Kanopy but LA County and Los Angeles Public Library (yes, they're two separate systems) do have it. That's where I get the bulk of my Knaopy needs.

Last edited by Why So Blu?; 03-20-19 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 03-20-19, 03:29 PM
  #35  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

She's "A Canadian film doctor. Lecturer at Harvard. Film, media & philosophy. Co-host: The Lodgers: A Twin Peaks Podcast. Cinema Scope contributor."
Location: Boston/Canada/Telluride...

I was hoping someone might have further insight (as a librarian or some other profession involved) to either confirm or dispute her claim (which I guess is what her local library told her?), but it seems like that's not going to happen.

It just seems like a $150 fee for any film that gets streamed 3+ times (in a year? in a month?) could put a lot of public libraries in the red if use of the app picks up steam. I like Kanopy... it's a good service. It would be nice to know what their actual terms are.

edit: I realized I didn't post the whole thread. It's only a couple posts, but anyway, I'll just paste it here.
Of course the last part is not specific to Kanopy, but the notion of “free” movies is quite frustrating when what’s happening is a switch away from libraries paying a one-time fee to own a copy vs paying for the right to rent access to it in perpetuity.
My library has now deactivated access to many films I want to see - particularly experimental or repertoire films - in order to guard against them being charged for it it seems. You have to reach out to the library directly to request it.

they seem available but when you press play you get a message saying your library has limited access to this film.

I’m definitely not an expert in this area. Just felt compelled to say something when I saw Kanopy tweeting about providing ‘free’ movies....
I think it's important to know if Kanopy is ripping off public libraries but hey free movies!

Last edited by Dan; 03-20-19 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 03-20-19, 03:37 PM
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
She's "A Canadian film doctor. Lecturer at Harvard. Film, media & philosophy. Co-host: The Lodgers: A Twin Peaks Podcast. Cinema Scope contributor."
Location: Boston/Canada/Telluride...

I was hoping someone might have further insight (as a librarian or some other profession involved) to either confirm or dispute her claim (which I guess is what her local library told her?), but it seems like that's not going to happen.

It just seems like a $150 fee for any film that gets streamed 3+ times (in a year? in a month?) could put a lot of public libraries in the red if use of the app picks up steam. I like Kanopy... it's a good service. It would be nice to know what their actual terms are.

edit: I realized I didn't post the whole thread. It's only a couple posts, but anyway, I'll just paste it here.


I think it's important to know if Kanopy is ripping off public libraries but hey free movies!
Since our library system does not offer Kanopy, I asked a colleague and she said that in theory, the library system can in fact do that to patrons. If it means that they have to pay more for licensing - it will eat up into the library's operating budget and they may cancel it at their discretion. LAC and LAPL are huge systems (more money), so they may weather the storm that an underfunded or smaller system may not.
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Old 03-20-19, 07:55 PM
  #37  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

This is exactly what I was worried about.
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Old 03-21-19, 06:25 PM
  #38  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Good afternoon,

Over the weekend, we became aware of an issue affecting the security of our platform. We promptly resolved the issue by Monday afternoon and are taking all necessary steps to maintain the security of our systems going forward. While our investigation is ongoing, at this stage, we believe significantly less than one percent of accounts have been affected.

The only thing as important as providing our Kanopy users with rich viewing experiences is protecting the integrity and security of your data. As our community continues to grow, we will always prioritize ensuring that our platform is entirely secure, regardless of scale.

We regret that these circumstances have affected the Kanopy community. While our analysis of the incident is ongoing, I personally assure you that we are doing everything it takes to protect against this type of event in the future.

Olivia Humphrey
CEO, Kanopy
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Old 06-01-19, 11:37 PM
  #39  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Well, it was fun while it lasted.
This is from the Harris County Public Library, which serves the entire Houston area, including my library down the street. This echoes exactly what was mentioned previously about Kanopy's licensing terms.

Submitted by admin on Thu, 05/30/2019 - 9:16am

Kanopy service will be discontinued (for HCPL) on May 31, 2019 at 11:59pm. Items that you have already checked out will become unavailable at that time. This was a very difficult decision based on our ability to afford a pricing model that charges for every check out. We apologize for any inconvenience to our customers. We will continue to explore alternatives to bring you the best public library digital content.
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Old 06-01-19, 11:48 PM
  #40  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Yep, it's a funding issue with some library systems. Hoopla Digital is the same way.
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Old 06-02-19, 12:15 AM
  #41  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

A state/county/city/whatever library funding issue, sure, but if the fees demanded are what they seem to be (hardly better in Hoopla's case and much worse in Kanopy's, than a digital rental from any other service), then Kanopy and Hoopla are just as much to blame for setting such terms while telling users "but it's free to you!"

Fuck 'em. Every library should dump their ass.
Fuck counties that don't fund their libraries well, too, but this seems to be a separate issue than that.
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Old 06-02-19, 05:59 AM
  #42  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Uh oh.
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Old 06-06-19, 01:19 AM
  #43  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Got to settle some fees this weekend, but loving the selection of Kanopy. I can't log in to see what my library offers specifically until I pay some fees but the overall selection looks good.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:29 AM
  #44  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
A state/county/city/whatever library funding issue, sure, but if the fees demanded are what they seem to be (hardly better in Hoopla's case and much worse in Kanopy's, than a digital rental from any other service), then Kanopy and Hoopla are just as much to blame for setting such terms while telling users "but it's free to you!"

Fuck 'em. Every library should dump their ass.
Fuck counties that don't fund their libraries well, too, but this seems to be a separate issue than that.

I wouldn't put the blame on the carriers. The studios basically said that this is how much you're going to charge libraries. It technically is "free" to the user, though. I'm lucky that I have almost half a dozen library memberships that all support both Kanopy and Hoopla, so no sweat off of my brow. The irony is that my actual library system that I belong to does not subscribe to either service. We did do a tester a couple of years ago and it was great but we never subscribed to it. I was never given an actual reason why just the standard "we'll take a look at it at a later time," which probably meant that we could not afford patrons renting movies/material for $3.99 a pop. I only found out about the rate when I asked and was given the exact details. It stemmed from this forum and a few posts back during the Twitter debate and how some library systems were dropping the service or those systems that already had it were having errors.
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Old 06-06-19, 10:47 AM
  #45  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

^ Yeah, that's a good point overall. Funny how you have all those memberships, but your actual library system doesn't support it. I still have a membership with my library back home, but I forgot my password so I can't use it for that.
In any case.. Harris County has re-added Kanopy for a limited time; 6 weeks. As they sort this out. Must have got some push back or an agreement from Kanopy to negotiate or something. I do think those rates are too high, though, so hopefully something positive comes out if it.

I tested out OverDrive recently, and it seems to work ok. The difference with that service is that the library buys a digital copy (or multiple copies) that can then be loaned out to users, one at a time. The upside is that it seems that they pay a one-time fee for the title, not recurring fees for every time it gets watched. I loaned out a copy of Tell No One but the audio was messed up. Contacted OverDrive and they've already responded, saying they'd get it fixed. I wonder if OverDrive discussion belongs in this same thread, since it's also a library-based service.
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Old 06-06-19, 11:35 AM
  #46  
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Re: The Kanopy and Hoopla Streaming Thread

^ Overdrive is mainly used for audiobooks and what not. We have 3 apps that we're friendly with for E-services. Cloud Library (formerly 3M Cloud Library), Overdrive, and Libby. Libby is my favorite because it is intuitive - one would think that Apple created it. The ironic part is that it's owned by Overdrive. I use Libby mainly for e-books and I can stack all of my library memberships to it and go back and forth. My system lets me check out up to 10 e-books at a time. Other systems may let you check out 5 up to 25. Licensing is different, as you mentioned.
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