Recent Amazon Price Error: You'll be charged unless you return!!
01-05-07 | 04:13 PM
#576
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From: Malvern, PA
Originally Posted by leeta
Beyond, the point that they have no right to place additional charges on the card, I think they run into problems by demanding the return of unopened merchandise when they waited until after most people received their orders to even email them.
Even if Unilateral Mistake could be applied, how can Amazon require the packages to be returned unopened when they were didn't even send out an email about the problem until the evening of Dec. 28th, when they knew about it on the 23rd???
Even if Unilateral Mistake could be applied, how can Amazon require the packages to be returned unopened when they were didn't even send out an email about the problem until the evening of Dec. 28th, when they knew about it on the 23rd???
01-05-07 | 04:31 PM
#577
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Originally Posted by BrentLumkin
I filed a complaint with the BBB, and the response they submitted was pretty much the "copy & paste* email once again. I replied to the email asking for an actual response instead of being sent that same thing once again, and here is what they replied back with:
Hello again from Amazon.com.
Please note, we will not be sending any information differing from
what you have received thus far.
As stated, if we do not receive the return of the items by January
28th, we will charge your credit card for them.
Please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] if you
have any further questions.
Regards,
Jennifer L. Hanner
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com
Please note, we will not be sending any information differing from
what you have received thus far.
As stated, if we do not receive the return of the items by January
28th, we will charge your credit card for them.
Please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] if you
have any further questions.
Regards,
Jennifer L. Hanner
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com
01-05-07 | 05:15 PM
#579
DVD Talk Legend
Please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected] if you
have any further questions.
Regards,
Jennifer L. Hanner
Executive Customer Relations
have any further questions.
Regards,
Jennifer L. Hanner
Executive Customer Relations
01-05-07 | 06:54 PM
#580
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
"You are welcome to remove your credit card information from your
account, however, as previously mentioned, if you decide to keep the
items or we have not received the items you wish to return by
January 28, we will charge your credit card for any unreturned items
in a manner consistent with the terms of the promotion.
...
Unfortunately, we will not be able to offer any additional insight
or action on these matters.
We've appreciated your business and hope to have the opportunity to
serve you again in the future.
Best regards,
Danielle L.
Amazon.com Customer Service"
Given this fiasco, their random price increases (Forbidden Planet), their history of playing games with prices, their bullshit "sourcing fee" for some books, I definitely think Amazon will move to the bottom of my 'order from' list.
They f*cked up. They're not standing by it.
I bet for damn sure if I send the guy I just sold something on Amazon.com marketplace, a bill for more money in two weeks, Amazon would kick me off.
Let's get a scorecard:
How many people got a "We won't charge you any more, we're sorry" email, and how many got the "Tough shit" emails?
Oh, here's the previous email:
"Please note that according to our policy, being charged and shipping
the items completes your order but in this case I see that we have
not charged your correctly. Please know that this situation was a
result of technical error, and that in no way did we intend for this
to happen."
So that really *doesn't* complete the order.
account, however, as previously mentioned, if you decide to keep the
items or we have not received the items you wish to return by
January 28, we will charge your credit card for any unreturned items
in a manner consistent with the terms of the promotion.
...
Unfortunately, we will not be able to offer any additional insight
or action on these matters.
We've appreciated your business and hope to have the opportunity to
serve you again in the future.
Best regards,
Danielle L.
Amazon.com Customer Service"
Given this fiasco, their random price increases (Forbidden Planet), their history of playing games with prices, their bullshit "sourcing fee" for some books, I definitely think Amazon will move to the bottom of my 'order from' list.
They f*cked up. They're not standing by it.
I bet for damn sure if I send the guy I just sold something on Amazon.com marketplace, a bill for more money in two weeks, Amazon would kick me off.
Let's get a scorecard:
How many people got a "We won't charge you any more, we're sorry" email, and how many got the "Tough shit" emails?
Oh, here's the previous email:
"Please note that according to our policy, being charged and shipping
the items completes your order but in this case I see that we have
not charged your correctly. Please know that this situation was a
result of technical error, and that in no way did we intend for this
to happen."
So that really *doesn't* complete the order.
Last edited by tonyc3742; 01-05-07 at 06:56 PM.
01-05-07 | 08:05 PM
#582
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe
What about the aspect of Unilateral mistake? They could require that the items be returned, if the buyer refuses to pay the intended cost.
From the reporting in the associated threads here on DVDtalk, many, if not most, glitch orders did not ship until 2-3 days later. That seems like an entirely reasonable period of time for Amazon to decide to cancel the orders (an option which they have demonstrated their capability for on numerous occasions over the last 5 years or so in cases of other pricing errors) or to let the orders ship out and chalk it up to a cost of doing business (as they have done occasionally when the error was caught early on).
Amazon might argue that because the glitch occurred right at the heart of the busiest time of the year for them, that 3 days wasn't enough time to cancel the orders. But then they would have to reconcile that claim with their ability to correct the glitch so rapidly. On one hand they were able to code, test and deploy public-facing custom software but on the other hand they were not able to code, test and run a basic database query. They are going to need a wookie to get away with a claim like that.
01-05-07 | 08:52 PM
#583
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Originally Posted by LBCrazyFool
I paid for 2-day shipping so if I decide to return the DVD's, do you think Amazon will reimburse me for the original shipping costs and not just the return costs?
If you can get in contact with a CSR rep over the phone who knows what they're doing, you can most likely get a reimbursement if you kick up enough of a fuss.
Though good luck trying to actually chase it up and get an accurate, sensible response if you decide to persue a refund.
Any question I've asked about initial postage refunds as well as return shipping reimbursement has been completely ignored. And I don't intend to just wave off the loss of $37.88 (and $85 in customs charges) for items I don't get to keep.
I'll try emailing Executive Customer Relations, see if they can answer coherantly and let you know what they say.
01-05-07 | 10:02 PM
#584
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by BrentLumkin
I sent emails to both David Streitfeld and Troy Wolverton. David said that he would look into it, and Troy said that he forwarded my email as well, as stated above. Both of them replied to my emails within minutes. I wasn't expecting that at all.
01-05-07 | 10:07 PM
#585
DVD Talk Legend
Not from Troy. DS told me that while we here are more than likely right, and if pressed Amazon would more than likely be forced to side with us, Amazon would win this fight. His reason was that the only way Amazon actually back off is if the public court of opinion went against them, and word got out about it all and they just had to make it right by us. However, he said, with the glitch being where some people got items for free, or at almost no cost at all, he said he didn't think the public would be all that outraged over all of this, and that they might side with Amazon, even if they aren't in the right on this one.
Truth be told, I don't blame him for what he said, as that's all true I'd say. You're not going to get too many people that isn't directly affected by all of this to get all that outraged over the whole thing.
Truth be told, I don't blame him for what he said, as that's all true I'd say. You're not going to get too many people that isn't directly affected by all of this to get all that outraged over the whole thing.
01-05-07 | 10:22 PM
#587
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally Posted by BrentLumkin
Truth be told, I don't blame him for what he said, as that's all true I'd say. You're not going to get too many people that isn't directly affected by all of this to get all that outraged over the whole thing.
01-05-07 | 10:35 PM
#588
DVD Talk Legend
I was affected by this, so I'm not one of those other people, but I admit I can understand the other side. This situation is different because for some people, the final total was $0.00, and even those that did end up paying something still didn't get charged the listed price, other than the listed price on the invoices and emails.
If this was a screw-up on Amazon.com where items were actually listed on their site for $0.00 or some other crazy price, I highly doubt that Amazon would be trying to do what they are doing, since that price would've been listed on their site. This is just different from a normal stated misprice.
Now, that doesn't mean that I believe that what Amazon is doing is right, or even legal. They did list the prices we were offered as the final total on the site at checkout, in all of the emails, and then in the physical invoices. They did cancel some orders, but not all of them. They did ship out orders well after the glitch was corrected.
No, I don't agree with what Amazon is doing at all, and I'm quite ticked off over it. I'm just saying that I can see the angle that they're trying to come at us from.
If this was a screw-up on Amazon.com where items were actually listed on their site for $0.00 or some other crazy price, I highly doubt that Amazon would be trying to do what they are doing, since that price would've been listed on their site. This is just different from a normal stated misprice.
Now, that doesn't mean that I believe that what Amazon is doing is right, or even legal. They did list the prices we were offered as the final total on the site at checkout, in all of the emails, and then in the physical invoices. They did cancel some orders, but not all of them. They did ship out orders well after the glitch was corrected.
No, I don't agree with what Amazon is doing at all, and I'm quite ticked off over it. I'm just saying that I can see the angle that they're trying to come at us from.
01-05-07 | 11:22 PM
#589
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Bottom line here is talk to your credit card company, I did and have been told that I can dispute any additional charges without issue as I have the following:
1. Original Email confirmations dated.
2. Online Account order confirmations
3. Shipping invoices received with product.
So, I am not worried, let them charge away, it only costs them more and more money. If you dispute an unauthorized charge and they get charged back, correct me if I'm wrong, but they eat transaction fees in these situations b/c the card companies do NOT treat them as refunds, they treat them as unauthorized charges and the honus is on the merchant.
Therefore, I think that emailing amazon and getting into the proverbial contest with a skunk is going to get you nowhere but frustrated. And it is curious as they say "no additional insight into this matter" is because I don't think they have any as you can debate all you want legality, but I side with the credit card companies on this one and believe Amazon doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Just my 2 cents.
1. Original Email confirmations dated.
2. Online Account order confirmations
3. Shipping invoices received with product.
So, I am not worried, let them charge away, it only costs them more and more money. If you dispute an unauthorized charge and they get charged back, correct me if I'm wrong, but they eat transaction fees in these situations b/c the card companies do NOT treat them as refunds, they treat them as unauthorized charges and the honus is on the merchant.
Therefore, I think that emailing amazon and getting into the proverbial contest with a skunk is going to get you nowhere but frustrated. And it is curious as they say "no additional insight into this matter" is because I don't think they have any as you can debate all you want legality, but I side with the credit card companies on this one and believe Amazon doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by tdubel; 01-05-07 at 11:25 PM.
01-06-07 | 03:50 AM
#590
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Originally Posted by Jah-Wren Ryel
From the reporting in the associated threads here on DVDtalk, many, if not most, glitch orders did not ship until 2-3 days later. That seems like an entirely reasonable period of time for Amazon to decide to cancel the orders
Now you can say, well then they lose out because they shipped them, and I think that argument has much validity (though also some problems of its own), but the 2-3 days thing should not be the factor. Remember, they did cancel several orders that hadn't gone into "shipping soon" status, so if it was as easy as just deciding to cancel the orders, they clearly would have done it.
Amazon might argue that because the glitch occurred right at the heart of the busiest time of the year for them, that 3 days wasn't enough time to cancel the orders. But then they would have to reconcile that claim with their ability to correct the glitch so rapidly. On one hand they were able to code, test and deploy public-facing custom software but on the other hand they were not able to code, test and run a basic database query. They are going to need a wookie to get away with a claim like that.
I'm not on amazon's side here at all, and I think (and hope) you guys should be able to keep your DVDs, but some of the reasons that people (not you personally) are using as justification for getting away with this deal border on the ridiculous.
01-06-07 | 06:39 AM
#592
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Originally Posted by legend42
It may seem reasonable, but we have little idea what that process actually entails. Just because an order doesn't physically ship for 2-3 days doesn't mean it can be easily recalled.
Now you can say, well then they lose out because they shipped them, and I think that argument has much validity (though also some problems of its own), but the 2-3 days thing should not be the factor. Remember, they did cancel several orders that hadn't gone into "shipping soon" status, so if it was as easy as just deciding to cancel the orders, they clearly would have done it.
Now you can say, well then they lose out because they shipped them, and I think that argument has much validity (though also some problems of its own), but the 2-3 days thing should not be the factor. Remember, they did cancel several orders that hadn't gone into "shipping soon" status, so if it was as easy as just deciding to cancel the orders, they clearly would have done it.
The fact that they did cancel some orders - and the cancellations occurred long before many other orders shipped further supports my point that Amazon can not claim the shipments as a unilateral mistake. They clearly knew what they were doing long before they did it.
As best as I can tell from reading the cited article about "unilateral mistake" - Amazon doesn't get to say "we knew, but it was just too expensive to stop the shipments in time, so we let it go anyway." Either they were ignorant of the mistake or not, with very little leeway in between.
I don't see why that's such an unreasonable claim. It makes perfect sense that fixing the glitch would probably be a fairly simple procedure, and certainly a hell of a lot easier than finding and recalling every order that had been placed using that promotion from a system that is processing *millions* of orders per day.
However, manually running a database query to produce a list of orders affected by the glitch requires significantly less testing because it is the kind of thing that gets run once, does not actually modify the database, and the end results are a list that is then used by one or more employees to manually cancel the orders. So errors in the results should not get past the human step, and any unintended consequences should be kept to a bare minimum.
01-06-07 | 06:54 AM
#593
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Well, I've just tried to get Amazon to send me a prepaid UPS shipping label so I can return (just in case) multiple orders in a single package. The CSRs frustratingly don't seem to understand any written or verbal communication and aren't returning anything beyond canned responses that don't resolve any of my messages.
01-06-07 | 08:10 AM
#594
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From: Northern NJ
Originally Posted by mnementh
Well, I've just tried to get Amazon to send me a prepaid UPS shipping label so I can return (just in case) multiple orders in a single package. The CSRs frustratingly don't seem to understand any written or verbal communication and aren't returning anything beyond canned responses that don't resolve any of my messages.
01-06-07 | 09:02 AM
#595
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From: IL
I'm not a lawyer, but I did play a defendant in a mock trial once. 
(... and I was acquitted)
I have been following this issue since the inception of the previous thread. I have not heard any mention about the fact that Amazon sent emails rather than contacting people versus other methods.
In any case, from a legal perspective, will an "email" stand up in court as a legal notice or as proper notification? I thought that the sender needed confirmation that the notice had been received, such as delivering the notice in person (like a subpoena) or via Return receipt or Signature for delivery.
I understand that the email was not meant to be a legal notice, but they have no guarantee that people received the email either. Would the email be able to stand up in court that people were provided proper notice and allowed time to comply to the terms of the request?
(... and I was acquitted)
I have been following this issue since the inception of the previous thread. I have not heard any mention about the fact that Amazon sent emails rather than contacting people versus other methods.
In any case, from a legal perspective, will an "email" stand up in court as a legal notice or as proper notification? I thought that the sender needed confirmation that the notice had been received, such as delivering the notice in person (like a subpoena) or via Return receipt or Signature for delivery.
I understand that the email was not meant to be a legal notice, but they have no guarantee that people received the email either. Would the email be able to stand up in court that people were provided proper notice and allowed time to comply to the terms of the request?
01-06-07 | 05:08 PM
#596
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From: Malvern, PA
Originally Posted by flix1
I'm not a lawyer, but I did play a defendant in a mock trial once.
(... and I was acquitted)
I have been following this issue since the inception of the previous thread. I have not heard any mention about the fact that Amazon sent emails rather than contacting people versus other methods.
In any case, from a legal perspective, will an "email" stand up in court as a legal notice or as proper notification? I thought that the sender needed confirmation that the notice had been received, such as delivering the notice in person (like a subpoena) or via Return receipt or Signature for delivery.
I understand that the email was not meant to be a legal notice, but they have no guarantee that people received the email either. Would the email be able to stand up in court that people were provided proper notice and allowed time to comply to the terms of the request?
(... and I was acquitted)
I have been following this issue since the inception of the previous thread. I have not heard any mention about the fact that Amazon sent emails rather than contacting people versus other methods.
In any case, from a legal perspective, will an "email" stand up in court as a legal notice or as proper notification? I thought that the sender needed confirmation that the notice had been received, such as delivering the notice in person (like a subpoena) or via Return receipt or Signature for delivery.
I understand that the email was not meant to be a legal notice, but they have no guarantee that people received the email either. Would the email be able to stand up in court that people were provided proper notice and allowed time to comply to the terms of the request?
I do not in any way claim to be an expert, but I am a lawyer if that means anything.
01-06-07 | 06:00 PM
#597
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From: S.S.F. CA
Thank you for writing back to us at Amazon.com.
I've reviewed our previous correspondence and your orders.
I sympathize with your frustration. However, please understand that
the information provided in our last message correctly represents
our policy at this time.
As previously mentioned, due to an error we did not charge you the
correct amount for the items you purchased. According to the terms
of the promotion, purchasing one DVD at the regular price entitled
you to a free DVD of equal or lesser value. Please note, you should
have been charged for one DVD, but both the DVDs you purchased using
this promotional offer were not charged.
You can view the terms of the promotion here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...nditions.html?
ie=UTF8&promo=ASBWFYDM3SJCA&merchantID=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Because these items have already shipped to you, you can either keep
the items and we will charge you the amount you should have been
charged or you can return the items - at no cost to you - to
Amazon.com within 30 days.
If you prefer to keep the DVDs you receive, please use the link at
the bottom of this message to send us a reply with your permission
to charge your credit card for the one DVD from each order. Of
course, your card will not be charged for the shipping costs
associated with the item(s).
If you decide to return the item, just visit our online Returns
Center for a shipping label and packing instructions.
Because CDs, DVDs, videos, software, and video games cannot be
resold after they have been opened, we cannot accept the return of
opened items for a refund (unless, of course, they are defective or
damaged). However, because of the circumstances surrounding your
order, I have made an exception in this one case and you can return
the opened DVDs by packing them on your own.
To print a return shipping label, follow these steps:
1. Go to the "Your Account" link at the top of our web site
(http://www.amazon.com/your-account).
2. Click "Return items" under "Where's My Stuff?"
3. Enter the requested information, including how you received the
item, the reason for the return, and the quantity.
4. You will then be able to print a pre-addressed return label.
You may choose to print a USPS return label, request a UPS return
label or, in some cases, request UPS pick-up of your return. The
return options will depend upon the items you are returning. If you
request a UPS return label, we will send you a personalized link via
e-mail; simply follow the link to print out your return label.
Because the label is an authorized return label and contains coding
specific to the merchandise you are returning, I request to print
separate return shipping label for each order.
If you are not able to print the postage-paid return shipping label,
please mail your return to:
In this case, please make a note of your return shipping costs and
let us know the amount, so that we can reimburse you for this cost.
RETURNS CENTER - AMAZON.COM
1850 Mercer Rd., Suite 100
Lexington, KY 40598
USA
If you have further questions, please visit our online Help pages:
http://www.amazon.com/help
Once again, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused in
this regard.
Thank you for your understanding. We appreciate your business and
hope to see you again soon at Amazon.com.
Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question:
If yes, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-y?c=cyrhfgwy3420916008
If not, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-n?c=cyrhfgwy3420916008
Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept
incoming e-mail.
To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help
section of our web site.
Best regards,
Rajeswari.S
Amazon.com Customer Service
http://www.amazon.com
I've reviewed our previous correspondence and your orders.
I sympathize with your frustration. However, please understand that
the information provided in our last message correctly represents
our policy at this time.
As previously mentioned, due to an error we did not charge you the
correct amount for the items you purchased. According to the terms
of the promotion, purchasing one DVD at the regular price entitled
you to a free DVD of equal or lesser value. Please note, you should
have been charged for one DVD, but both the DVDs you purchased using
this promotional offer were not charged.
You can view the terms of the promotion here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...nditions.html?
ie=UTF8&promo=ASBWFYDM3SJCA&merchantID=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Because these items have already shipped to you, you can either keep
the items and we will charge you the amount you should have been
charged or you can return the items - at no cost to you - to
Amazon.com within 30 days.
If you prefer to keep the DVDs you receive, please use the link at
the bottom of this message to send us a reply with your permission
to charge your credit card for the one DVD from each order. Of
course, your card will not be charged for the shipping costs
associated with the item(s).
If you decide to return the item, just visit our online Returns
Center for a shipping label and packing instructions.
Because CDs, DVDs, videos, software, and video games cannot be
resold after they have been opened, we cannot accept the return of
opened items for a refund (unless, of course, they are defective or
damaged). However, because of the circumstances surrounding your
order, I have made an exception in this one case and you can return
the opened DVDs by packing them on your own.
To print a return shipping label, follow these steps:
1. Go to the "Your Account" link at the top of our web site
(http://www.amazon.com/your-account).
2. Click "Return items" under "Where's My Stuff?"
3. Enter the requested information, including how you received the
item, the reason for the return, and the quantity.
4. You will then be able to print a pre-addressed return label.
You may choose to print a USPS return label, request a UPS return
label or, in some cases, request UPS pick-up of your return. The
return options will depend upon the items you are returning. If you
request a UPS return label, we will send you a personalized link via
e-mail; simply follow the link to print out your return label.
Because the label is an authorized return label and contains coding
specific to the merchandise you are returning, I request to print
separate return shipping label for each order.
If you are not able to print the postage-paid return shipping label,
please mail your return to:
In this case, please make a note of your return shipping costs and
let us know the amount, so that we can reimburse you for this cost.
RETURNS CENTER - AMAZON.COM
1850 Mercer Rd., Suite 100
Lexington, KY 40598
USA
If you have further questions, please visit our online Help pages:
http://www.amazon.com/help
Once again, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused in
this regard.
Thank you for your understanding. We appreciate your business and
hope to see you again soon at Amazon.com.
Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question:
If yes, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-y?c=cyrhfgwy3420916008
If not, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-n?c=cyrhfgwy3420916008
Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept
incoming e-mail.
To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help
section of our web site.
Best regards,
Rajeswari.S
Amazon.com Customer Service
http://www.amazon.com
I guess they need authorization to charge me..and if I don't authorize it.....they're SOL.
01-06-07 | 06:24 PM
#598
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by U6C84
I finally e-mailed them..and this is the response I received. I haven't really read all the responses, but I'm sure other people have gotten something similar to this.
If you prefer to keep the DVDs you receive, please use the link at
the bottom of this message to send us a reply with your permission
to charge your credit card for the one DVD from each order. Of
course, your card will not be charged for the shipping costs
associated with the item(s).
I guess they need authorization to charge me..and if I don't authorize it.....they're SOL.
If you prefer to keep the DVDs you receive, please use the link at
the bottom of this message to send us a reply with your permission
to charge your credit card for the one DVD from each order. Of
course, your card will not be charged for the shipping costs
associated with the item(s).
I guess they need authorization to charge me..and if I don't authorize it.....they're SOL.
