You should include in your disclaimer that you have no idea what you are talking about and have very little knowledge of the rock music genre if you are going to make ludicrous statements like that.

Wow, really? I grew up listening to Montrose. My dad was a big fan of the Canadian band The Guess Who. Know any thing about them? One of my favorite 70s bands that helped kill disco. I'd like to think that I know at least a little about changing tides in music. You have your opinion of me and that's fine but I'm not ludicrous.
GnR has it's place. If anything, I was trying to say they were a transitional band that appealed to the masses. People were tired of hair metal and they filled that void until grunge came along. Grunge came along and they survived that too, kudos to them. If you don't want to see them as an "in between band" from 80s hair metal to early 90s grunge I have no problem with that.

I can see what Barth is saying.

During the 80s, "metal" was becoming more and more toothless and pop-friendly. Power ballads, bright colored, flashy clothes, guys with more hairspray and make-up than mid-priced hookers.

Then Guns & Roses comes along with AFD. It's a raw record, heavy (though not speed or thrash), filled with f-bombs (pop-oriented metal generally avoided tossing around anything more than radio-friendly innuendo). The band had tattoos, nose and nipple piercings (unusual for the time), and looked unkempt.

They sort of started pushing mainstream metal to be a bit edgier, and got lots similar and inferior bands signed, none of which really took off.

In that way I can sort of see how GnR might have primed the metal audience for grunge a few years later. (And, in the early days of grunge, before it was even called grunge, bands like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden were marketed as heavy metal bands before the record company marketing machine decided grunge was "alternative.")

^Thanks Josh-da-man. You summed up what I was trying to say only in a much more nice and neat way.

Seems like GNR succeeded largely due to their heavy rotation on MTV. And in those videos they did do something that seemed unique... looking enough like the hair metal bands, but playing songs that were more punk and classic hard rock than the poppy glam that was coming from Motley Crue and Poison. With that combo they were able to attract people that were into almost every hard rock/metal genre being payed on MTV and hard rock/metal radio stations.

Largely? I don't know about that. I think the music should get a little bit of the credit. Appetite for Destruction regularly appears at the top of the Billboard catalog album sales charts, and has for years and years. Somehow I don't think 16 year olds are still buying GNR albums because their parents saw the band on MTV a lot.

Nothing I posted was meant to say the music wasn't good. Just what boosted their popularity beyond the music back when the videos from AFD and UYI I and II were in heavy rotation and the singles were new releases.

I guess it was the way you phrased it. Saying that their success was "largely" attributed to MTV seems to be overstating things a bit. There were plenty of acts who got just as much face time on MTV as GNR, but are nowhere to be found today. Sure, MTV was a part of it (I don't think the tabloid appeal of the band can be overlooked either), but I think they would still have found some level of success on their own merits without the music videos.

Where did I post anything about today and the lasting appeal either way? If anything, the downfall of so many bands once the MTV era was over just proves the point. Even bad hard rock/hair bands from the era were getting constant rotation on MTV and had platinum albums. But only those that were good are still around today or even lasted after MTV switched to things other than music videos.

It's funny talking about how the videos being played on MTV helped GNR's popularity because at first, Geffen had a really hard time getting MTV to play "Welcome to the Jungle". As the story goes, as a last resort David Geffen personally had to call in a favor to Viacom to get them to play the video, a one time showing Sunday at 5 am. After it played, MTV starting getting phone calls requesting the video and it went on from there.

I can remember when Jungle first started airing not liking it much. Axl's voice takes some getting used to and his look in that video... eek. But by the third or fourth video I was in.

Exactly. The ones who were good have lasted. I take that to mean that GNR would have had success regardless of MTV.

Absolutely. How much immediate success, well never know. But I have no doubt they would have made it the same way similar bands back in the 70's did. Most of those 80's hair bands, not so much.

I guess they're touring again. I got a Pre-Sale announcement this morning that they're coming back and playing at T-Mobile Arena in November. I wasn't going to make the same mistake and miss them twice. Bought a couple of lower bowl, opposite end tickets for $125 + tax and service fees each. I could have gotten floor seats but they were double the price and the last time I got reserved floor seats there, I couldn't see anything.
Anyway, I'm psyched to see them for the first time since 1988!

I might check out the Vancouver show, but the whole Izzy thing has kind of soured me. This tour is like a convoy of Brinks trucks backing up to all 3 of these guys houses and you're telling me they couldn't cut Izzy in. It's greedy. He's as vital to the bands success as anyone, he deserves it. I dunno, I'll probably go, but its not the reunion fans deserve.

Here are the dates :

Guns N' Roses Extend 2017 North American Tour
Band adds ZZ Top, Deftones, Sturgill Simpson, more to select summer dates

By Jon Blistein
May 25, 2017
Guns N' Roses will embark on another North American leg of their massive Not In This Lifetime reunion tour. The stadium and arena run begins October 8th in Philadelphia and wraps November 24th and 25th with two-night in Los Angeles, the first show at the Staples Center and the second at the Forum

The trek also includes two-nights at Madison Square Garden in New York City and stops in Boston, Toronto, Chicago, Houston, Las Vegas and more. Tickets go on sale June 3rd via Live Nation while Citi cardholders will have access to pre-sale tickets starting May 30th at 10 a.m. local time and ending June 2nd at 10 p.m. AT&T will also host a pre-sale between June 1st at 10 a.m. local time and June 2nd at 10 p.m. VIP packages will be available as well.

Guns N' Roses have also added a date to their North American summer run, August 5th at War Memorial Stadium in Little Rock, Arkansas. That leg kicks off July 27th with the band's return to St. Louis, Missouri, the location of their infamous 1991 "Riverport Riot," when singer Axl Rose attacked a photographer in the audience.

Guns N' Roses have also announced a slew of openers for that summer trek with ZZ Top, Deftones, Sturgill Simpson, Royal Blood, Live and Our Lady Peace set to join the band on select dates. A full itinerary is available on the GnR website.

Guns N' Roses are in the middle of an international run that wraps up July 15th in Israel. The band reunited last spring, headlining Coachella before embarking on the Not In This Lifetime tour.

Guns N' Roses North American Tour Dates

October 8, 2017 – Philadelphia, PA @ Wells Fargo Center
October 11, 2017 – New York, NY @ Madison Square Garden
October 15, 2017 – New York, NY @ Madison Square Garden
October 22, 2017 – Boston, MA TD @ Garden
October 26, 2017 – Cleveland, OH @ Quicken Loans Arena
October 29, 2017 – Toronto, ON @ Air Canada Centre
November 2, 2017 – Detroit, MI @ Little Caesers Arena
November 6, 2017 – Chicago, IL @ United Center
November 10, 2017 – Houston, TX @ Toyota Center
November 14, 2017 – Tulsa, OK @ BOK Center
November 17, 2017 – Las Vegas, NV @ T-Mobile Arena
November 21, 2017 – Oakland, CA @ Oracle Arena
November 24, 2017 – Los Angeles, CA @ Staples Center
November 25, 2017 – Los Angeles, CA @ The Forum

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Staples and The Forum -- if I had to pick one of those venues for a live show I would say The Forum is a much better venue for live music than Staples.

One night at the Staples Center and one night at the Forum. Why?

Pack up all that shit just to go ten miles and set it all up again. Dumb.

We finally agree on something.

I agree, if Izzy had been a part of this, I would have bought tickets no questions asked. But without him it just doesn't feel like a true reunion, in many ways he was the heart of GNR, I was really disappointed when he left the band back in 1991 (but understand why he did it).

I imagine with three professional sports teams using the facility at that time, and with no NBA or NHL schedule yet officially set, it would be hard to ensure more than one day per week when the venue won't be in use. That's a Friday and Saturday night and I doubt there is a single weekend all regular season where there isn't at least one night game in Staples.
As far as why not play the Forum both nights? I assume there must be a ton of revenue to collect from all those luxury boxes at Staples.

No, we also agreed that Audrey Hepburn was insanely fuckable.

Exactly! That's why all the pop stars (like Taylor Swift and Adele) have their Staples concert in like August to avoid the sports. There is soooo much money to be made at Staples but the Forum has the history and new look feel. Why not do both anyways. As another has said, the Forum just sounds better for music and it's why I got my tickets there.

The Hairplugs Tour. Gonna be sweet - for those who refuse to leave 1989.

I have heard this statement many times before & while I don't disagree with it, its not as if there werent any bands like GnR prior to GnR. There were many popular non hair hard rock bands before the grunge era. Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, just to name a few. Why does GnR get all the credit for the hair metal/grunge transition?