Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
10-20-10, 08:04 PM
#51
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
I'm not going to say illegal downloading isn't hurting the industry, but I can never shake the feeling that there are numerous occasions where illegal downloading is used as an excuse for poor sales.
10-20-10, 08:23 PM
#52
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
iTunes seems to be doing just fine. 
Here's my take: back in the day, consumers would hear a song on the radio, and they would go out and buy the full album (singles were available but typically not purchased). $10-$15 to the record company. Then they'd get home and find that most of the album was poop.
Now, they just buy the songs they like. $1 to the record company.
Here's my take: back in the day, consumers would hear a song on the radio, and they would go out and buy the full album (singles were available but typically not purchased). $10-$15 to the record company. Then they'd get home and find that most of the album was poop.
Now, they just buy the songs they like. $1 to the record company.
10-20-10, 08:36 PM
#53
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
I recall some CDs being around $18 at Camelot Music which was one of the few places that had a decent metal section in the '80s. At least I was able to get a free CD when I purchased 20 or so discs. I think I redeemed two or three cards before Camelot suspended the program in the early '90s.
10-20-10, 08:57 PM
#54
DVD Talk Limited Edition
10-20-10, 09:32 PM
#55
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
I agree that illegal internet downloads need to be stopped somehow.
Look at the alternative, there are proposals to add $5 (or some similar amount) per month to everybody's internet connection then make all music downloadable (legally) for "free". Would you want to be forced to pay $60 for music you may or may not listen to?
Or the arm of the music industry that shakes down small businesses for playing the radio loud enough for customers to hear. They are stepping up efforts to collect $300 to $10,000 from each business that dares to play music by record company clients (basically anything you hear on the radio).
There has to be a way to slow down or stop illegal song file sharing.
Look at the alternative, there are proposals to add $5 (or some similar amount) per month to everybody's internet connection then make all music downloadable (legally) for "free". Would you want to be forced to pay $60 for music you may or may not listen to?
Or the arm of the music industry that shakes down small businesses for playing the radio loud enough for customers to hear. They are stepping up efforts to collect $300 to $10,000 from each business that dares to play music by record company clients (basically anything you hear on the radio).
There has to be a way to slow down or stop illegal song file sharing.
10-20-10, 09:42 PM
#56
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
Or the arm of the music industry that shakes down small businesses for playing the radio loud enough for customers to hear. They are stepping up efforts to collect $300 to $10,000 from each business that dares to play music by record company clients (basically anything you hear on the radio).
10-20-10, 09:56 PM
#57
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
Saying CDs cost $20 in the 80s is a fallacy. Even as early as 86/87 I remember paying no more than $14-15 a pop. If 23 years later they still cost $14-$15, it means they've dropped dramatically in price. Assuming a 3.5% annual inflation, that $15 CD in 1987 would cost $30 now. A "$20 CD" would cost $44 in today's dollars. Meanwhile, shipping, overhead, distribution and marketing costs have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY.
This was back when you had to go to a mall store like Musicland or Camelot in order to get anything obscure that Wal-Mart and K-Mart didn't carry. This was well before discounters like Best Buy started appearing and going after music consumers, and a good decade before internet sales.
I also know for a fact that the mall stores would frequently inflate the prices of recorded music well beyond MSRP. I remember seeing a copy of Metallica "Garage Days Re-Revisited EP" (marked on the cover as "The $5.98 EP - DO NOT PAY MORE") and the store had it stickered at $9.99, the same as a full price album.
10-20-10, 09:58 PM
#58
Banned by request
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
I agree that illegal internet downloads need to be stopped somehow.
Look at the alternative, there are proposals to add $5 (or some similar amount) per month to everybody's internet connection then make all music downloadable (legally) for "free". Would you want to be forced to pay $60 for music you may or may not listen to?
Look at the alternative, there are proposals to add $5 (or some similar amount) per month to everybody's internet connection then make all music downloadable (legally) for "free". Would you want to be forced to pay $60 for music you may or may not listen to?
10-20-10, 10:13 PM
#59
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
The unfortunate aspect would be me never fully absorbing an album. I would probably listen to something once, and then move on to the next album. I do that enough the way it is.
10-21-10, 07:39 AM
#60
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
I found out he had a Deviant Art account where he had posted an apology to all the fans. His account has been deactivated for a year or so. Tite Kubo the creator of Bleach had discovered the copied art because a lot of Americans had been writing to him.
10-21-10, 08:03 AM
#61
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
I also know for a fact that the mall stores would frequently inflate the prices of recorded music well beyond MSRP. I remember seeing a copy of Metallica "Garage Days Re-Revisited EP" (marked on the cover as "The $5.98 EP - DO NOT PAY MORE") and the store had it stickered at $9.99, the same as a full price album.
I added nothing to the topic there. But if you did buy that CD in 1987 you could sell it now for more than twice its MSRP.
10-21-10, 08:51 AM
#62
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
Well, I assume it would be a perpetual thing. You wouldn't get to opt in temporarily, grab everything within one month, and stop.
10-21-10, 09:18 AM
#63
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
I believe it was Hard Promises. Not sure, but it was a Petty album. MCA was going to raise the MSRP to 9.98 for albums and Petty was going to protest the increase by naming the album $8.98 so $8.98 would be printed on the cover.
10-21-10, 12:54 PM
#64
Banned by request
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
Simply put, if there were a $5 charge per month on my internet connection, and in turn I was allowed to download as much music as I wanted for free legally, I would make out like a bandit every single month.
10-21-10, 01:50 PM
#66
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
While you could say CD's are cheaper now by basically remaining the same price as they were years ago, the perception is they are overpriced. When you can buy a DVD of a movie at Walmart for $3-$4, yet its soundtrack costs $15 on CD, people will considered the CD overpriced, not the DVD underpriced.
I'm OK with $10 a CD for a physical disc with higher quality audio, but 256Kbps audio files should not be more than $5 for a full album. Charge the $1 or $1.29 for the popular singles, but let people buy the album for less than 1.29 x the number of songs or even $10.
I'm OK with $10 a CD for a physical disc with higher quality audio, but 256Kbps audio files should not be more than $5 for a full album. Charge the $1 or $1.29 for the popular singles, but let people buy the album for less than 1.29 x the number of songs or even $10.
10-21-10, 01:51 PM
#67
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
Let's say the automatic $5 charge was added on for everyone...
I'd love to be able to allocate my $5 to whichever artists that I choose. If I want to give Ringo less, it's up to me.
I'd love to be able to allocate my $5 to whichever artists that I choose. If I want to give Ringo less, it's up to me.
10-21-10, 02:54 PM
#68
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
That's right, and we've had pretty much a consensus on this here in the past. For many people, $10 is a psychological ceiling they're not willing to breach, except in cases where the musician's track record almost guarantees a certain level of quality; to wit, if I have loved _____'s past music, I'm willing to pay $12.99 or even $14.99 for ______'s new album. For me those exceptions are rare.
10-21-10, 03:25 PM
#69
DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,299
Received 1,812 Likes
on
1,130 Posts
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
Those things are certainly also part of the shift in sales of CDs/Music - but as someone who's worked in many parts of the industry for the last 25 years, I can say without a doubt that illegal downloading and P2P sites ARE the #1 contributing factor to the loss of CD sales. I've worked as a musician, a writer, in radio, in records stores and for record labels (as well as having many friends who did), and I've seen all the trends that have affected the industry over the years. None, were more damaging the the introduction of P2P sites, and a generation of people who decided they could just take what they wanted for free off the internet, rather than pay for it.
There was a time when, if a major artist was putting out a new releases, the store would get 300 to 500 copies for street date - and you'd often sell most of those in the first week, too. Now, it's more like 30 to 90 copies for the same caliber artist, and you're lucky if you sell half of them. And the prices are cheaper now than they were then, as well.
I know many friends, myself included, who lost their jobs working at record labels, because the entire branch closed for that area (in this case the Boston/New England market). And it wasn't just one label, either, it was most of them - WEA, UNI, SONY, BMG, EMD all shuttered their doors and closed up shop, transferring the work to the New York offices only . The few lucky people who did manage to keep some kind of job, now cover five times as much territory, and work out of their homes/cars.
As much as some folks want to deny it, I know from first hand experience how damaging illegal downloading was/is to this industry.
There was a time when, if a major artist was putting out a new releases, the store would get 300 to 500 copies for street date - and you'd often sell most of those in the first week, too. Now, it's more like 30 to 90 copies for the same caliber artist, and you're lucky if you sell half of them. And the prices are cheaper now than they were then, as well.
I know many friends, myself included, who lost their jobs working at record labels, because the entire branch closed for that area (in this case the Boston/New England market). And it wasn't just one label, either, it was most of them - WEA, UNI, SONY, BMG, EMD all shuttered their doors and closed up shop, transferring the work to the New York offices only . The few lucky people who did manage to keep some kind of job, now cover five times as much territory, and work out of their homes/cars.
As much as some folks want to deny it, I know from first hand experience how damaging illegal downloading was/is to this industry.
But I think you're missing the part that while we can all more or less agree the Illegal downloading isn't cool, the way the industry reacted, or in Gene's opinion.... didn't react, was just as hurtful if not more hurtful than any palefaced College student downloading the latest songs. The industry wasn't smart enough to come up with ways to deal with it. They didn't innovate. Well NOW they're trying new things after having their collective asses kicked, but it's too little too late.
10-21-10, 03:27 PM
#70
DVD Talk Godfather
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,299
Received 1,812 Likes
on
1,130 Posts
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
isn't the Porn Industry going through the same thing right now with people posting other studio's and performer's work on sites for free?
How are they dealing with this?
How are they dealing with this?
10-21-10, 06:07 PM
#71
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
10-21-10, 06:48 PM
#73
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)
This has been covered on AVN's website the past couple of weeks if anyone is interested.
10-21-10, 07:00 PM
#74
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)