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Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Old 10-19-10, 12:15 PM
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Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20019993-71.html

"The music industry was asleep at the wheel and didn't have the balls to sue every fresh-faced, freckle-faced college kid who downloaded material. And so now we're left with hundreds of thousands of people without jobs. There's no industry."
This part is awesome:

"Make sure your brand is protected. Make sure there are no incursions. Be litigious. Sue everybody. Take their homes, their cars. Don't let anybody cross that line."
Yeah, Gene, nail all of these thieving, entitled assholes who think they steal other people's work and get away with it. (Link)
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Old 10-19-10, 12:53 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Currently GeneSimmons.com automatically redirects you to Pirate Bay.

I wonder what ChaimWitz.org does...
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Old 10-19-10, 03:57 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

I was sort of hoping he was doing a new reality show where he took on the Somalian Pirates. (because Family Jewels is kinda boring now)
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Old 10-19-10, 05:38 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Actually, the original artist was paid to let Nick, "Borrow," his work. It was done quietly, but he was paid.

The bottom line is this - Gene is right. People illegally downloading music has almost completely destroyed an entire industry. A lot of people are out of work because of it, and a lot of artists have lost millions of dollars in income because of it.

That's not cool. That's not OK.

Bands can't make any real money on albums any more, and very few bands make enough money on tour to put any money away for the future.

The quality of music that we're going to hear in the future is going to drop considerably as people who need to make money can't afford to make music on a full time basis. Music will be come a side gig for most people as they have to work, "Real," jobs to pay the bills. Less time spent working on songwriting and performing skills means lower quality almost every time.

The current state of the music industry is pathetic. The future looks even worse.

Last edited by B5Erik; 10-19-10 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 10-19-10, 06:20 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Actually, the original artist was paid to let Nick, "Borrow," his work. It was done quietly, but he was paid.

The bottom line is this - Gene is right. People illegally downloading music has almost completely destroyed an entire industry. A lot of people are out of work because of it, and a lot of artists have lost millions of dollars in income because of it.

That's not cool. That's not OK.

Bands can't make any real money on albums any more, and very few bands make enough money on tour to put any money away for the future.

The quality of music that we're going to hear in the future is going to drop considerably as people who need to make money can't afford to make music on a full time basis. Music will be come a side gig for most people as they have to work, "Real," jobs to pay the bills. Less time spent working on songwriting and performing skills means lower quality almost every time.

The current state of the music industry is pathetic. The future looks even worse.
If I had a band today with let say the talent of THE BEATLES I would do this.
A) Put my home made cheap videos of my bands music on YOUTUBE for free.
B) Play for free at parties to expose my band and let others video tape my band for free. So they could put us on the web for free.
C) I would have a website that you could download my songs for 50cents.
All the money would be coming to the band.
After all this is done I'm sure record compaines will want to sign us up.
Now I get a entertainment lawyer and get a deal unlike THE BEATLES record deal where they got a lame deal.
So the reason for crap music today is not the pirates, but the talent.
Today a band with talent can be discovered easy.
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Old 10-19-10, 06:20 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

With the exception of a few superstars, bands never made money on albums. And there is more diverse, high-quality music coming out today than ever.

I don't condone piracy, and it's clearly had an impact on the revenues of the major labels, but I'm not sure it's had any imapct at all on the artistic output of musicians.
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Old 10-19-10, 06:44 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

My brother is in a band that is working with a producer who has ties to major labels. He told me that he won't be able to afford to stay in the band if they sign to a major label because he makes more money working his regular job than he could with a major label and doing touring (and he can't pay his bills taking that kind of a pay cut).

Sure, it's easy to get a YouTube video out there - but making money off of it is hard. Once your song is on the internet people can get it for free, so why would they pay for it?

Apparently, stealing is OK as long as it's done on the internet.
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Old 10-19-10, 06:48 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Maybe Gene can start up a fund for out of work music industry folks with money from KISS tickets and merchandise. I mean shit, how much money can 4 guys spend?
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Old 10-19-10, 06:54 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Maybe Gene can start up a fund for out of work music industry folks with money from KISS tickets and merchandise. I mean shit, how much money can 4 guys spend?
Well, they just donated about a quarter million dollars to Wounded Warriors to help wounded soldiers get better rehab.

But, seriously, stealing is stealing. Illegally downloading music is the same as shoplifting CD's.
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Old 10-19-10, 06:59 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
People illegally downloading music has almost completely destroyed an entire industry. A lot of people are out of work because of it, and a lot of artists have lost millions of dollars in income because of it.
Is it really because of illegal downloading or is it more because of no good music being around anymore? Or is it because record labels are very stupid in who they are signing these days. A combination of all three?

Metallica can still sell millions. It is possible to have a platinum album these days.

And whenever I tell a friend to "check out the new album by soandso" and even provide a link, they don't even bother because they don't even have a clue as to how to download anything illegally (or even legally... some bands put their albums up for free... I'll give friends the link or tell them about it and they're clueless as to even what a "zip" or "rar" file is). In my circle of friends, it seems as though I'm the only one downloading anything.
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Old 10-19-10, 07:00 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

I'm against the illegal downloading myself. However, I have fresh music coming in weekly that I don't pay for, simply from small artists giving it away for free. This makes me purchase less music than I would before. Also, there are a lot more artists out there for me to spread my money around to, unlike before the internet when I would buy all albums from a relatively small selection of artists.
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Old 10-19-10, 07:04 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Well, they just donated about a quarter million dollars to Wounded Warriors to help wounded soldiers get better rehab.

But, seriously, stealing is stealing. Illegally downloading music is the same as shoplifting CD's.

Yeah sure. But where's the money for out of work music folks? Put your money where your mouth is Gene.

I agree that Illegal is illegal, but you can't blame all the Industry's woes on Music Downloading.

Plus you know what? FUCK rich guys for blaming their lack of MORE MONEY on Regular Joe's.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 10-19-10 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 10-19-10, 07:29 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Yeah sure. But where's the money for out of work music folks? Put your money where your mouth is Gene.

I agree that Illegal is illegal, but you can't blame all the Industry's woes on Music Downloading.

Plus you what? FUCK rich guys for blaming their lack of MORE MONEY on Regular Joe's.
Illegal downloading hurts bands/artists at all income/success levels. It's not just the high end guys losing money - it's the low end bands who can't make bupkis because they can only sell 5,000 CD's where they could have sold 50,000 just 10 years ago.
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Old 10-19-10, 07:40 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth View Post
Is it really because of illegal downloading or is it more because of no good music being around anymore? Or is it because record labels are very stupid in who they are signing these days. A combination of all three?

Metallica can still sell millions. It is possible to have a platinum album these days.
Like most other entertainment industries, I think that the music industry is looking at the death of the midlist, where you have the superstars reaping the lion's share of the public's attention and dollars.

People like Stephen King, J.K. Rowling, Stephenie Meyer and Dan Brown can sell millions of books, but midlist authors are, more often than not, struggling for sales and shelf space.

Likewise, the film industry is also looking for huge, star-powered payouts and b-movies and independent cinema finds itself struggling.

We also need to take into account things like video games, which I'm sure eat into the public's disposable income, and most kids would probably rather have "Call of Duty 43" than four music CDs.
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Old 10-19-10, 07:42 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Illegal downloading hurts bands/artists at all income/success levels. It's not just the high end guys losing money - it's the low end bands who can't make bupkis because they can only sell 5,000 CD's where they could have sold 50,000 just 10 years ago.
I think it's more of a combination of the record industry being slow to adapt to digital music, CDs having high prices, public backlash from the RIAA lawsuits, and the fact that in this economy, people are being far more thrifty with their entertainment budget.

So yeah, pirating hurts the bottom line at some point, but nowadays it's mainly just a convenient scapegoat for when album sales fall below the projected sales target. The film industry likes to do the same thing.
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Old 10-19-10, 07:52 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by GreenVulture View Post
I think it's more of a combination of the record industry being slow to adapt to digital music, CDs having high prices, public backlash from the RIAA lawsuits, and the fact that in this economy, people are being far more thrifty with their entertainment budget.

So yeah, pirating hurts the bottom line at some point, but nowadays it's mainly just a convenient scapegoat for when album sales fall below the projected sales target. The film industry likes to do the same thing.
CD prices are NOT high.

They were high in the early 80's when the technology was brand new ($30 per CD), but that price adjusted for inflation would now be over $65.

At an average of about $13 per CD right now prices (adjusted for inflation) have never been lower.

Overall CD sales are about 1/5 of what they were 12-15 years ago. That's mainly due to illegal downloading (stealing).
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Old 10-19-10, 08:15 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

the music industry should stop turning out tripe and give us product that is worth paying for. maybe that is the major problem.
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Old 10-19-10, 08:39 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

I'm shocked! SHOCKED! at where this thread ended up.

It's not up to Gene to provide for struggling musicians; like everyone else, they have to make their way on talent, perseverance, determination, and luck. Gene does take time to discover and mentor new talent. Of course, I'm sure the 360 deals thrown their way are less than accommodating, but that's the industry these days...
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Old 10-19-10, 08:52 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
The quality of music that we're going to hear in the future is going to drop considerably as people who need to make money can't afford to make music on a full time basis. Music will be come a side gig for most people as they have to work, "Real," jobs to pay the bills. Less time spent working on songwriting and performing skills means lower quality almost every time.
I disagree. The best music has always been made by musicians who are hungry. People who perform for the love of music, not the love of money. Maybe poor folks can't afford auto-tune or engineers to master their recordings at '11' & sap all the dynamics out of them. Maybe those struggling still have the passion & time to churn out a masterpiece instead of trying to meet a contractual deadline.

Of course everyone should be paid for their work, but recorded music should be the promotional tool, not the end product. I think it's interesting that most struggling musicians happily give their stuff away free just to get themselves known, while the millionaires in their ivory towers act as if it's everyone's duty to buy their 'product'.

I happily purchase music by artists I love, but not a one of them happen to be on major labels.
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Old 10-19-10, 11:03 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
I'm shocked! SHOCKED! at where this thread ended up.

It's not up to Gene to provide for struggling musicians; like everyone else, they have to make their way on talent, perseverance, determination, and luck. Gene does take time to discover and mentor new talent. Of course, I'm sure the 360 deals thrown their way are less than accommodating, but that's the industry these days...

Of course. I'm just saying loudmouth fuckin' Gene and the industry cannot blame Illegal downloading for all their problems. Guess what? The whole fuckin' world is more or less in some kind of financial shitspin!!!

AND

Just like you say above, the INDUSTRY has to make their way on talent, perseverance, and determination, and luck. Not just suing and taking people's shit.

FUCK Gene $immon$

Last edited by Giantrobo; 10-19-10 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 10-19-10, 11:11 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
CD prices are NOT high.

They were high in the early 80's when the technology was brand new ($30 per CD), but that price adjusted for inflation would now be over $65.

At an average of about $13 per CD right now prices (adjusted for inflation) have never been lower.

Overall CD sales are about 1/5 of what they were 12-15 years ago. That's mainly due to illegal downloading (stealing).
It's a shame that it took illegal downloading for the prices to come down. Maybe the Industry shoulda thought about that before it was too late.

And mind you, I have never downloaded any song or film illegally so please don't think I'm defending folks who're clearly doing it without ever paying. Hell, I don't even buy digital media because I prefer cd's.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 10-19-10 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 10-19-10, 11:24 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
CD prices are NOT high.

At an average of about $13 per CD right now prices (adjusted for inflation) have never been lower.
I disagree. I think they are high and always have been high. To make 1,000 cds with a 4 color CD cover booklet is about $1,000. That's $1 a disk. In mass quantities (say that of a label like Geffen), the price per disk goes down even dramatically more.

If you add in money that goes to the artist, some for the label, and advertising, cds shouldn't be more than $7 tops.
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Old 10-19-10, 11:26 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Exactly, it took illegal downloading for the prices to come down. Around 99, used cd's were at 9.99 and that was considered a bargain; only after the Napster-Limeware-Kaazaa stuff did the prices of all cd's correct.

Add to that the fact that long before the creation of Napster, studios and artists loved to "complete" contracts by releasing Greatest Hit collections in order to satisfy deals. Pure money grabs over trying to make new material that will sell on it's merits. Classic example of what Eddie W is talking about is the awful final record the Cars put out just to finish their contract.
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Old 10-19-10, 11:32 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by gmanca View Post
Exactly, it took illegal downloading for the prices to come down. Around 99, used cd's were at 9.99 and that was considered a bargain; only after the Napster-Limeware-Kaazaa stuff did the prices of all cd's correct.

Add to that the fact that long before the creation of Napster, studios and artists loved to "complete" contracts by releasing Greatest Hit collections in order to satisfy deals. Pure money grabs over trying to make new material that will sell on it's merits. Classic example of what Eddie W is talking about is the awful final record the Cars put out just to finish their contract.

Boy I wonder what group has tons of GH sets? Hmmmm, could it be KISS?
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Old 10-19-10, 11:37 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Overall CD sales are about 1/5 of what they were 12-15 years ago. That's mainly due to illegal downloading (stealing).
What else has happened in those 12-15 years?

Video games took off in a big way with the Playstation (and later Xbox) being added to the Nintendo platforms.

Cell phones took off, and smart phones after that.

And we can't forget how DVD exploded onto the scene around that time, too.

It's entirely possible that young people - who are the primary consumers of music - chose to spend their disposable income on cell phones plans and video games instead of music?

We live in a free market economy, and there is only so much disposable income. There are going to be winners and losers.
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