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Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Old 10-20-10, 08:04 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Rocketdog2000 View Post
As much as some folks want to deny it, I know from first hand experience how damaging illegal downloading was/is to this industry.
I'm not going to say illegal downloading isn't hurting the industry, but I can never shake the feeling that there are numerous occasions where illegal downloading is used as an excuse for poor sales.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:23 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
iTunes seems to be doing just fine.

Here's my take: back in the day, consumers would hear a song on the radio, and they would go out and buy the full album (singles were available but typically not purchased). $10-$15 to the record company. Then they'd get home and find that most of the album was poop.

Now, they just buy the songs they like. $1 to the record company.
Strongly agree! Tons of people nowadays don't buy albums, they just buy the singles that they like.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:36 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Saying CDs cost $20 in the 80s is a fallacy. Even as early as 86/87 I remember paying no more than $14-15 a pop.
I recall some CDs being around $18 at Camelot Music which was one of the few places that had a decent metal section in the '80s. At least I was able to get a free CD when I purchased 20 or so discs. I think I redeemed two or three cards before Camelot suspended the program in the early '90s.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:57 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by wm lopez View Post
By the 20th century music wasn't all that good so didn't buy much
So music died in 1900 in your world? How old are you??
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Old 10-20-10, 09:32 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

I agree that illegal internet downloads need to be stopped somehow.

Look at the alternative, there are proposals to add $5 (or some similar amount) per month to everybody's internet connection then make all music downloadable (legally) for "free". Would you want to be forced to pay $60 for music you may or may not listen to?

Or the arm of the music industry that shakes down small businesses for playing the radio loud enough for customers to hear. They are stepping up efforts to collect $300 to $10,000 from each business that dares to play music by record company clients (basically anything you hear on the radio).

There has to be a way to slow down or stop illegal song file sharing.
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Old 10-20-10, 09:42 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Heat View Post
Or the arm of the music industry that shakes down small businesses for playing the radio loud enough for customers to hear. They are stepping up efforts to collect $300 to $10,000 from each business that dares to play music by record company clients (basically anything you hear on the radio).
And then you will have small business owners who want to protect the fees they have to pay to the RIAA by preventing people from listening to their own music.
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Old 10-20-10, 09:56 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
Saying CDs cost $20 in the 80s is a fallacy. Even as early as 86/87 I remember paying no more than $14-15 a pop. If 23 years later they still cost $14-$15, it means they've dropped dramatically in price. Assuming a 3.5% annual inflation, that $15 CD in 1987 would cost $30 now. A "$20 CD" would cost $44 in today's dollars. Meanwhile, shipping, overhead, distribution and marketing costs have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY.
I can remember in the late 80s and early 90s that single CDs could cost up to $18.99 and $19.99.

This was back when you had to go to a mall store like Musicland or Camelot in order to get anything obscure that Wal-Mart and K-Mart didn't carry. This was well before discounters like Best Buy started appearing and going after music consumers, and a good decade before internet sales.

I also know for a fact that the mall stores would frequently inflate the prices of recorded music well beyond MSRP. I remember seeing a copy of Metallica "Garage Days Re-Revisited EP" (marked on the cover as "The $5.98 EP - DO NOT PAY MORE") and the store had it stickered at $9.99, the same as a full price album.
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Old 10-20-10, 09:58 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Heat View Post
I agree that illegal internet downloads need to be stopped somehow.

Look at the alternative, there are proposals to add $5 (or some similar amount) per month to everybody's internet connection then make all music downloadable (legally) for "free". Would you want to be forced to pay $60 for music you may or may not listen to?
$5 per month for unlimited legal downloads of any music commercially available? I would abuse that puppy till it was crying in the corner for me to stop.
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Old 10-20-10, 10:13 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
$5 per month for unlimited legal downloads of any music commercially available? I would abuse that puppy till it was crying in the corner for me to stop.
Oh, definitely. My modem would probably start on fire.

The unfortunate aspect would be me never fully absorbing an album. I would probably listen to something once, and then move on to the next album. I do that enough the way it is.
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Old 10-21-10, 07:39 AM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Actually, the original artist was paid to let Nick, "Borrow," his work. It was done quietly, but he was paid.
is this really true? I think he only might of paid them after the people that he copied found out about it.

I found out he had a Deviant Art account where he had posted an apology to all the fans. His account has been deactivated for a year or so. Tite Kubo the creator of Bleach had discovered the copied art because a lot of Americans had been writing to him.
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Old 10-21-10, 08:03 AM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
I also know for a fact that the mall stores would frequently inflate the prices of recorded music well beyond MSRP. I remember seeing a copy of Metallica "Garage Days Re-Revisited EP" (marked on the cover as "The $5.98 EP - DO NOT PAY MORE") and the store had it stickered at $9.99, the same as a full price album.
You're right that mall stores sold titles at above MSRP, but in this case the list price of the "Garage Days" CD was $9.98. In the US, the title on the cover was changed from "The $5.98 E.P." to "The $9.98 C.D." The initial run of "Do Not Pay More" cover stickers were probably the same as those on the LP.



I added nothing to the topic there. But if you did buy that CD in 1987 you could sell it now for more than twice its MSRP.
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Old 10-21-10, 08:51 AM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
$5 per month for unlimited legal downloads of any music commercially available? I would abuse that puppy till it was crying in the corner for me to stop.
Well, I assume it would be a perpetual thing. You wouldn't get to opt in temporarily, grab everything within one month, and stop.
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Old 10-21-10, 09:18 AM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

I believe it was Hard Promises. Not sure, but it was a Petty album. MCA was going to raise the MSRP to 9.98 for albums and Petty was going to protest the increase by naming the album $8.98 so $8.98 would be printed on the cover.
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Old 10-21-10, 12:54 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Drexl View Post
Well, I assume it would be a perpetual thing. You wouldn't get to opt in temporarily, grab everything within one month, and stop.
Who said I wanted to opt out?

Simply put, if there were a $5 charge per month on my internet connection, and in turn I was allowed to download as much music as I wanted for free legally, I would make out like a bandit every single month.
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Old 10-21-10, 01:50 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Exactly.
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Old 10-21-10, 01:50 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

While you could say CD's are cheaper now by basically remaining the same price as they were years ago, the perception is they are overpriced. When you can buy a DVD of a movie at Walmart for $3-$4, yet its soundtrack costs $15 on CD, people will considered the CD overpriced, not the DVD underpriced.

I'm OK with $10 a CD for a physical disc with higher quality audio, but 256Kbps audio files should not be more than $5 for a full album. Charge the $1 or $1.29 for the popular singles, but let people buy the album for less than 1.29 x the number of songs or even $10.
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Old 10-21-10, 01:51 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Let's say the automatic $5 charge was added on for everyone...

I'd love to be able to allocate my $5 to whichever artists that I choose. If I want to give Ringo less, it's up to me.
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Old 10-21-10, 02:54 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post
I'm OK with $10 a CD for a physical disc with higher quality audio,
That's right, and we've had pretty much a consensus on this here in the past. For many people, $10 is a psychological ceiling they're not willing to breach, except in cases where the musician's track record almost guarantees a certain level of quality; to wit, if I have loved _____'s past music, I'm willing to pay $12.99 or even $14.99 for ______'s new album. For me those exceptions are rare.
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Old 10-21-10, 03:25 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Rocketdog2000 View Post
Those things are certainly also part of the shift in sales of CDs/Music - but as someone who's worked in many parts of the industry for the last 25 years, I can say without a doubt that illegal downloading and P2P sites ARE the #1 contributing factor to the loss of CD sales. I've worked as a musician, a writer, in radio, in records stores and for record labels (as well as having many friends who did), and I've seen all the trends that have affected the industry over the years. None, were more damaging the the introduction of P2P sites, and a generation of people who decided they could just take what they wanted for free off the internet, rather than pay for it.

There was a time when, if a major artist was putting out a new releases, the store would get 300 to 500 copies for street date - and you'd often sell most of those in the first week, too. Now, it's more like 30 to 90 copies for the same caliber artist, and you're lucky if you sell half of them. And the prices are cheaper now than they were then, as well.

I know many friends, myself included, who lost their jobs working at record labels, because the entire branch closed for that area (in this case the Boston/New England market). And it wasn't just one label, either, it was most of them - WEA, UNI, SONY, BMG, EMD all shuttered their doors and closed up shop, transferring the work to the New York offices only . The few lucky people who did manage to keep some kind of job, now cover five times as much territory, and work out of their homes/cars.

As much as some folks want to deny it, I know from first hand experience how damaging illegal downloading was/is to this industry.

But I think you're missing the part that while we can all more or less agree the Illegal downloading isn't cool, the way the industry reacted, or in Gene's opinion.... didn't react, was just as hurtful if not more hurtful than any palefaced College student downloading the latest songs. The industry wasn't smart enough to come up with ways to deal with it. They didn't innovate. Well NOW they're trying new things after having their collective asses kicked, but it's too little too late.
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Old 10-21-10, 03:27 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

isn't the Porn Industry going through the same thing right now with people posting other studio's and performer's work on sites for free?

How are they dealing with this?
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Old 10-21-10, 06:07 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Mikael79 View Post
So music died in 1900 in your world? How old are you??
I ment to say by the end of the 20th century. I did listen to 1940's to 1999 music and both black & white music and bought a lot of music during that time. So I have no guilt that we copy music for free.
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Old 10-21-10, 06:40 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Paying for porn.... that's so... quaint
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Old 10-21-10, 06:48 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
isn't the Porn Industry going through the same thing right now with people posting other studio's and performer's work on sites for free?

How are they dealing with this?
Just recently they started filing "John Doe" lawsuits against torrent users. With an interesting wrinkle... they're going after people who trade potentially "embarssing" porn like she-males and other fetishy type stuff, though not exclusively -- Hustler is going after people torrenting their recent Avatar knock-off.

This has been covered on AVN's website the past couple of weeks if anyone is interested.
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Old 10-21-10, 07:00 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Just recently they started filing "John Doe" lawsuits against torrent users. With an interesting wrinkle... they're going after people who trade potentially "embarssing" porn like she-males and other fetishy type stuff,
LOL! That's pretty funny!
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Old 10-21-10, 07:28 PM
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Re: Gene Simmons vs Pirates (and 4chan)

People, this is why you stick to private porn torrent sites and/or newsgroups.

EDIT: And proxies.
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