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the beginning of punk?

Old 07-21-10, 12:38 PM
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the beginning of punk?

Why is it that punk is always defined as starting with the Ramones, Sex Pistols etc. which came out of the Stooges, MC5, NY Dolls when what it really came from is 60s garage rock? I see this rarely acknowledged but who can deny a song like Social End Product by the Bluestars is not punk? By that I don't mean "proto-punk" either just as punk as anything from the 70s or 80s.



the angst, anti-government, and everything else that defined punk as punk is there but why is this still never acknowledged? It's just the tip of the iceberg as well, there's a shitload of songs from '66 alone that could fit this label. Is it just because nobody knows or cares about it? It came out a decade before the so called first wave of punk music.

Last edited by statcat; 07-21-10 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 07-21-10, 01:16 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

I see the punk ethos as challenging hippy culture and dinosaur rock. Therefore, I'd say Zappa and the VU. Not sure how those garage bands felt about the hippy culture since they were in the middle of it.

Who Needs The Peace Corps? -Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention

What's there to live for?
Who needs the peace corps?

Think I'll just DROP OUT
I'll go to Frisco
Buy a wig & sleep
On Owsley's floor

Walked past the wig store
Danced at the Fillmore
I'm completely stoned
I'm hippy & I'm trippy
I'm a gypsy on my own
I'll stay a week & get the crabs &
Take a bus back home
I'm really just a phony
But forgive me
'Cause I'm stoned

Every town must have a place
Where phony hippies meet
Psychedelic dungeons
Popping up every street
GO TO SAN FRANCISCO

How I love ya, How I love ya
How I love ya, How I love ya Frisco!
How I love ya, How I love ya
How I love ya, How I love ya
Oh, my hair is getting good in the back! Every town must have a place
Where phony hippies meet
Psychedelic dungeons
Popping up on every street
GO TO SAN FRANCISCO...

Hotcha!

First I'll buy some beads
And then perhaps a leather band
To go around my head
Some feathers and bells
And a book of Indian lore
I will ask the Chamber Of Commerce
How to get to Haight Street
And smoke an awful lot of dope

I will wander around barefoot
I will have a psychedelic gleam in my eye at all times
I will love everyone
I will love the police as they kick the shit out of me on the street
I will sleep...
I will, I will go to a house
That's, that's what I will do
I will go to a house
Where there's a rock roll band
'Cause the groups all live together
And I will join a rock & roll band
I will be their road manager
And I will stay there with them
And I will get the crabs
But I won't care

Last edited by CRM114; 07-21-10 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 07-21-10, 02:10 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Not sure how those garage bands felt about the hippy culture since they were in the middle of it.
"hippie culture" didn't really start creeping in until 1967, most garage bands prime was 65-66
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Old 07-21-10, 02:21 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

Punk or punk music?
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Old 07-21-10, 02:43 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

I've seen the term punk used for hardcore 50s rock n roll and the whole greaser/leather jacket/biker/switchblade scene.
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Old 07-21-10, 04:40 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

I think there are two different interpretations of what 'punk music' is: punk as a movement, identified by attitude and spirit; and punk as a musical genre, identified by a certain sound and style.
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Old 07-21-10, 04:48 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

The Bluestars aren't punk because punk was a reaction to the excesses of prog rock and heavy metal and the Bluestars predated all that. It's really that simple. Anybody who is knowledgable about the history of punk will tell you that the Ramones and other early punks were explicitly drawing on the garage rock of the mid-60s.

But if you like that stuff, check out the Nuggets compilations.
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Old 07-21-10, 05:27 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

The Bluestars, Sonics, etc. are to punk as M is to film noir. Yes, there's a clear progression from one to the other, but the point where the genre becomes recognizable is after the progenitor works.
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Old 07-21-10, 05:51 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The Bluestars aren't punk because punk was a reaction to the excesses of prog rock and heavy metal and the Bluestars predated all that. It's really that simple. Anybody who is knowledgable about the history of punk will tell you that the Ramones and other early punks were explicitly drawing on the garage rock of the mid-60s.

But if you like that stuff, check out the Nuggets compilations.
Sometimes it's mentioned but it doesn't get further inspection. It's the same old stooges, MC5, etc. mentioned as if they created punk rock. It's almost used like some broad unexplained footnote that nobody bothers to investigate if it is mentioned. It's all just musical barriers journalists and others have created to define music when honestly something can't be defined IMO.

I disagree on the nuggets compilations- there's lots of pop tracks, psychedelic tracks, etc., back from the grave, teenage shutdown, are where the kind of music I'm talking about is.
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Old 07-21-10, 07:12 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

surfin bird was the first song that sounded like punk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThquH5t0ow


edit...ok how do we embed here now?
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Old 07-21-10, 08:23 PM
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Re: the beginning of punk?

Originally Posted by chino77 View Post
surfin bird was the first song that sounded like punk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThquH5t0ow


edit...ok how do we embed here now?
How about this one from 1959


Last edited by statcat; 07-21-10 at 08:29 PM.
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