I just can't get into Tool. It doesn't work for me on any level. I tried listening to Undertow again before unloading it on half.com, and it didn't do a thing for me. They leave me totally cold.

Oddly enough, I'll say that Tool produced the single greatest music video ever created, Sober.

And best drummer? Ummm, ever hear of Neal Peart?

I have always liked Tool begining when I first heard Sober way back in 1995. It wasnt until I saw them in concert in mid 1998 that I became...you could say obsessed? I guess the fact that I have over 40 of their live shows on DVD would classify me as obsessed

Anyway everybody has that one music act that strikes a cord in their life...that is what Tool has done for me. They are definetly NOT for everyone. I guess some people say they "peaked" at Undertow because that album was an in your face hard rock album with songs that are basically "wham bamm thank you mam". Lots of people like that type of arangement. They like to turn to a particular song for 5 minutes and be done with it, and thats fine. Well Tool doesnt do that anymore. Its funny because Undertow & Opiate are my least favorite of their albums. I think gilbert hit it right on the head earlier. Tool makes albums now. They no longer make separate songs, they make songs that blend togther to form 1 complete album. So it takes effort now to sit down for a whole album and just take it in. Obvisouly some, if not most, are not going to care for that. But for someone to say "they suck" is just an insult, when in fact you should be saying "they just dont do it for me". Save the "You Suck" type of comments who do nothing to contribute to the music industry.

I do remember the old Tool thread (Quaid), and back then I was very defensive like many Tool fans are about their band. Why is that? Its because lots of Tool fans get emotionally involved into this band, almost like a marriage. And when someone insults Tool they take it personally. I've kinda learned there will always be those who hate Tool and just love to piss those of us off because they know they can so easily!, sort of like Laker haters! . So there really is no reason to feed that Troll like mentality anymore. If you hate Tool...good for you!, but I will continue to love my favorite band

edited to add: I wasnt implying that you hated or were a Troll inVectiVe, but rather trying to explain why alot of Tool fans get a little defensive about Tool, since you were here back during that old thread

Death to prog rock!



Stop with the hitting! Gah! I'm sorry!

Actually, Tool were one of my favourite bands for close to 3 or so years, and I've had Undertow for 9 years at this point. I also thought Ænima was their best album for the majority of the time they were my favourite. I don't see what fans think decides who else is a fan, even if I no longer consider myself one in the most remote of ways.

Undertow is focused, it doesn't have many extremely weak points, and their song writing was at its apex at this point. Also, the production on this album is the best suited for the album it's on out of all of their catalogue.

Also, I've seen them in concert. They were one of the most disappointing live acts I've seen. I don't see anything about their live act that would make me think more of them as musicians. They play, for the most part, the songs verbatim to their recorded counterparts, and when they do extend them, it's so full of repetition that it's embarassing how long they'd rehearsed it.

Finally, I don't respect bands I don't like for what they are capable of. Well written music, and a good musician aren't consistantly correlated terms, and I'm not about to ignore bad music because it was written by someone with technical skill. The most remembered songs are by no means the most technically difficult, or challenging, but they are what's remembered, and looking back at Tool once they've disbanded, you'll find a sketchy band that could hit the mark if they wanted to, but were to preoccupied with agendas and misguided ideals of what warrents merit (overly long songs is not a guaranteed meal ticket, guys). Their singles will live on for those who do a little digging.

I've been playing guitar for 15 years and I have to agree. I'm not the greatest player or anything, but Tool's guitar/bass work is hardly complex, musical or difficult. I could also hammer out their music quite easily.

They're not a bad band at all, but they are pretty far from being "great musicians".

Just think these guys where doing sounds and FXs for movies like Terminater and Jurasic Park and decided to make a band for fun and look how they turned out,these guys make music for themselves and no one else,you dont like tuff $hit dont buy it or listen to it,IMO there the best rock band ATM,with all this weak $hit killing the radio waves its refreshing to play a good 10 minute Tool song to relax me,and live there just as good.

People who are saying they suck in concert because they play a 8 minute song and make it a extended 20 minutes dont know what there talking about,the last time I seen them in concert they only did this with 1 song and that was Reflections,you all act like they do this with every song they play.

So its obvious you prefer the "singles" mentality. What makes you think they havent "hit the mark"? What, just because you prefer the "singles" type of music & because this band doesnt conform to that? They have "hit the mark" above and beyond imo. I am so gratefull they DIDNT stick with that 1 type of sound like countless other bands do.

I'm fairly certain only one of them was doing mild art jobs for those films.

Also, bands don't make music for themselves. Once you get mass distro, you're making music for other people, and artists and fans that get frustrated that people don't like it should realize this. Art placed on a public spectrum, no matter what you think, is subject to all the opinions of those who are exposed to it. And by that same token, if you really believe your 'if you don't like it, avoid it' motto, I would suggest laying off complaining about the radio.

Also, the amount of time a Tool show is, from first song to last, divided by the number of songs played is sad.

Yeah, I really dont know where this is coming from either? The only songs I can think of where they have massivly extended them are...well none? If they are talking about Disposition, Reflection & Triad combination. That is true to the album. Those three songs were meant to be 1 long epic song. And the only others I can think of.... Jerk Off, Prison Sex, Stinkfist, Schism have only 1-3 minutes of bars added. Merkaba is an 8 minute piece they sometimes throw in there, but other than that they DONT extend their songs by 10 minutes as some say in here.

I don't see what "singles" mentality you're picking up on. Their best songs happen to be their singles, but that's not a mentality I'm subscribing to, it's what I have learned over the last 9 years. I've been through the phases of "Third Eye and Flood are their best!" but then again, I've grown up over that extended period of time.

I'd like to know what "'singles' type of music" is, or how they aren't conforming to it? Is it focus? Smaller lengthed songs?

I also never said they should stick with one type of song, at all, in any capacity, anywhere in my posts.

They played about 12-14 songs during their 2002 shows. Each show was 2hrs. How is that sad?

Well maybe "singles" is the wrong word. I'm thinking songs that are around the 5/6 min mark, which Undertow had the most of.

Ten minutes a song? That's not something to be happy about.

Also, I like the songs that are focused. Being long for the point of being long shows in a lot of their stuff. It has nothing to do with preferring a specific time for any song I listen to.

Who says they arent focused? What songs are you talking about? Can you give me some songs as examples?

The majority of Lateralus meanders. They demonstrated on both Undertow and Ænima (specifically "Stinkfist," their best song) that they can encapsulate the same twists and turns in smaller avenues, yet they choose to pad and pad for, seemingly, the ability to comment on how full the CD was with 'content'.

You like the Undertow era Tool, I like the current Tool era. what more is there to say? Your opinion is that Stinkfist is there best song, my opinion is that Third Eye/The Grudge are their best songs. You like songs that obviously get to the point pretty fast, I dont. Is there anything else to say?? Your opinion doesnt make you right, my opinion doesnt make me right. Music is subjective my friend.

I happen to agree with MJKTool that Tools best music is displayed on their latest efforts(Aenima and Lateralus). The thing I like most about Tool is that they have continually progressed as a band, and you can hear this in every album. With every album they keep getting better and better, and I can't wait to hear what their next album will sound like. I think a lot of rock bands today should learn from Tool in this respect. They shouldn't be afraid of taking risks and experimenting a little more with their music. Not comforming to the usual 3-5 minute radio song formula.

I like them. When they pop on the radio, I'll usully listen. I think more than anything, their live performances are amazing.

Just a quick thing to add about "padding" - not the DVDTalk kind, but the songwriting kind - I mentioned before that I think Length For Length's Sake is the guiding philosophy behind that looooooooong, drawn-out quiet part in "Ticks & Leeches." Cripes, that tune started out as the thrashiest, most immediate number on the album. Anyone care to convince me that the overall impact would have been diminished if, for instance, the quiet part was cut to about 90 seconds as opposed to its IIRC 2:30 duration?

And that's NOT to suggest that "I'm right when I say they pad!" I agree that music is quite subjective. Like how mordecai maintains that "Stinkfist" is their best song - does anyone remember a certain ([BANNED]?) DVDTalker who used to say it was one of their worst?

I also have to say that judging songs by their length is totally ridiculous. If we go by this assumption we are basically saying that classic songs like "Shine on you Crazy Diamond" by Pink Floyd, "Kashmir" by Led Zeppelin, and "The End" by The Doors are bad songs because they are too long, which is a completely ridiculous statement.

I doubt I could convince you about anything regarding Tool

I've always dug that break as like a "calming before the storm type of thing". Its almost like that song NEEDS a break...again my opinion

Oh fun. This reminds me of the sweet Metallica thread, only now I'm playing the part of MJK and he is playing my part. Good times!

Anyway, I'm a huge Tool fan, not as huge as Metallica, but in some ways the songs hit harder in a spirtual sense to me.

First of all, Tool is not for everyone, bottom line. It's really deep, and very focused, and extremely tight. And at the same time, very unsettled, vague and sometimes even loose to interpretation. Some people just aren't ready for them in my opinion, or don't grasp what is being said/played.

I think that each member of Tool is pure genious, and has really taken their instrument to amazing levels including Maynard with his voice.

Tool is not a singles band, they don't write for MTV or radio, if MTV and radio except what they have created then fine, if not, too bad that is the way it is.

I'm with MJK and prefer Aenima and Lateralus over Opiate and Undertow (which are great as well).

MJK hit it right on the head with his statement about Tool making albums not songs. The first time I heard Lateralus it was clear to me that it was really one piece of music, divided only by "tracks" on the disc. Aenima is similar in nature, and could be seen as on piece of music as well.

Song length is a moot point, who cares. I love long epic songs that take me to many places, the rise and fall like waves of ocean water. To me, that is music, something that hits you hard then brings you way down and then hits you again, never suspect to it.

If you don't like long songs, then don't listen to Tool. If you don't like complex and deep songs then don't listen to Tool, if you don't like to try and find meaning or reason behind songs, then yup you guessed it, don't listen to Tool. Why? Cuz that is what they do.

For what it's worth, my favorite Tool song is "Eulogy" followed very closely by "The Grudge"

Eulogy is just unreal, and cuz I love it so much, I'm gonna put the lyrics right here for all to read.


"Eulogy"

He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.

So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart.
We'll miss him.

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.

So loud.
You sure could yell.
You took a stand on every little thing
And so loud.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.

Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Don't you ****in lie.

Don't you step out of line.
Don't you ****in lie.

You've claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy?

You had alot to say.
You had alot of nothing to say.

Come down.
Get off your ****in cross.
We need the ****in space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies. [sic]
Goodbye...

WOW!

Oh and everyone should see them live, it's unreal, and cannot be described in writing, you've got to be there.


Tool

Note to mod(s): I'm about to "discuss a [BANNED] (I think?) member" in a way that I'm not sure is appropriate. Feel free to edit the hell out of this.
__________
I did. [BANNED] members are not to be discussed. Maybe you can edit your original post to amend the reference to something less specific. I've deleted a follow-up for the same reason. [Benedict]

I dont know about The Patient being the best on the album....maybe 2nd or 3rd though

Tool is a sweet band. I have seen them twice. I think they are as close to a modern version of Pink Floyd as you can get. They are not a singles band by any means. Whenever I start listening to a cd I almost always end up playing the whole thing. I think they and their fans would do just fine if their music was never heard on the radio. I do think the last 2 studio cds represent them the best.