JTH182

So, can I sue Warner Brothers because they stole my idea? From 2008:

https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk...ml#post8823928

dex14

SmackDaddy

If you look carefully, looks like he's chewed his fingernails off, thus the dried blood. I hope they keep his presence in the background for the next one and then unleash him in the third (escape from Arkham and bent on revenge). I wonder, how much of his look is a result of whatever happened between them a year earlier.

Also, wanted to add that I'm glad that this wasn't a kill the villain and bring on the next that is the common for this genre. It will be interesting to see Batman fill up Arkham and having history with those villains.

Why So Blu?

Sort of like John Doe in Seven but those were razorbladed off.

Hokeyboy

Love everything about the scene. EVERYTHING.

But yeah, it didn't really serve any purpose except to introduce Joker. The themes and ideas introduced here were repeated elsewhere, and I think more effectively.

IBJoel

It reminded me of a character in Smokin' Aces who chewed off his fingerprints.

Also, heard someone mention that the scarring and patchy scalp seemed like the result of someone who took a chemical bath and that is making me a little more OK with it.

Mike86

Eh… the patchy hair still looks pretty dumb even if the explanation is good. It feels like they try so hard to do something extreme in hopes of topping Ledger, and it just doesn’t pay off.

Leto looked like a buffoon, Phoenix was kind of a knockoff Ledger. This is a weird combination. Has some Ledger aspects with goofy aspects like patchy hair and if it’s true about his fingernails.

Hopefully they’ll change the look a little bit since this is only a deleted scene.

Toddarino

It was a nice change of pace after Leto’s Joker pimp and Phoenix’s not really the Joker.

IBJoel

Oh it's definitely still not GOOD. But I'm just a liiiiittle more accepting

Why So Blu?

I read something yesterday that said this version of Joker is a combination from all the Jokers of the past, which also includes the Man Who Laughs. You have the Heath Ledger version, Jack Nicholson version, the video game versions, etc., which is why he has this whole elephant man thing going.

Rob V

Took my son to see this Friday evening and loved it. Best Batman yet... I found myself physically smiling several times during the fight scenes and the new Batmobile scene. Great film.

Trevor

Went in expecting to love it. Found nothing original or innovative. It was passable entertainment. At least it was a step up from Snyder’s take.

SmackDaddy

Just curious, what were you expecting? Did you not find Batman doing actual detective work interesting/new (for this character on film)? It's also arguably the most grounded version we've had (Nolan stretched "grounded" on many occasions).

Draven

The more I think about the movie the less I like it. The Batmobile was the best part (and early on I thought that looked lame).

I'm ready for them to mix it up - let's unmask Batman and reveal Bruce Wayne and see what that world looks like. It's the number one thing I love about the MCU - they said "fuck it" with the secret identities, starting with the first Iron Man. Hiding who he is in 2022 is the most boring thing about the character.

This was just a return to dark, brooding Batman that've seen again and again. And the "detective" work wasn't anything to write home about - kinda just showed how bad the Gotham PD was at their jobs.

Runaway

What was the main catalyst in the last Spider-Man again? Please remind me.

Why So Blu?

The more I think about it the more I love it. Shit was awesome and is currently my #1 of the year. Dark and brooding? Which other live action Batmans have been dark and brooding?

Of course, jizzing at the MCU stuff. Figures. Stick to that. You're just not Batman material.

Rob V

They were mostly corrupt.

Draven

“Batman” material. I’ve been a Batman fan since seeing 1989 in theaters and reading various books over the years. I’ve seen every other Batman movie in theaters too. I’ve earned as much cred to have an opinion as anyone.

Runaway

Even if The Batman was your first experience with Batman, you can have an opinion, still after seeing No Way Home it sounds kind of funny, if you say the MCU doesn't use secret identities. That was the whole point of the movie and while most of them aren't living in secret the "Civil War" started because some wanted to work in secret and others didn't.

Michael Corvin

This will be super unpopular but this was pretty mediocre at best. Saw it earlier and am not feeling the love everyone else has for it.

Starting with one of the biggest praises being Batman finally being a detective but, when in this ridiculous run time was this? He stood around a couple crime scenes and did have more interactions with cops but what did he detect exactly? He was always one step behind. I mean once they figured out Riddler had 500 followers why didn't they comb through his social media feed immediately? Bats didn't find his magnum opus video until 10-15 minutes later in the film. He guessed a couple riddles early on, so props? I guess? He found the murder weapon in the bat cage. Cool? The murder weapon that the random cop had to clue Batman into earlier in the film so he could pull up the carpet to reveal LEDs in the floor? The detective work in this was probably on the same level as Bale's Batman who did his work behind the scenes vs. standing around making it look like he was working.

Other than that I think most of my gripes stem from the fact that most of everything in this film has been done before and likely better. Jeffery Wright was fine, Oldman was better. Serkis? Also fine... Irons was better. Pattinson also fine, I enjoyed Affleck more. This Batman was kinda one-note and had zero range of emotion or charisma at all. Emo Spider-man did the emo thing better. Kravitz was also fine but even Hathaway was better by a slim margin. At least Bale and Hathaway had some chemistry together, Pattinson and Kravitz had zero chemistry together and acted like every scene was the first time on set together. Action scenes were, again...fine. This is one area where Snyder shined. Batman in the Snyderverse moved and fought like Batman should. This Batman was back to being stiff like Keaton's. Riddler felt like a marriage of Scarecrow and Bane and wasn't all that interesting until the reveal which came way too late. With the late reveal it meant we had zero scenes with Riddler & Batman throughout the film which kinda sucked especially seeing how powerful they were together at Arkham. It's far more interesting when Batman interacts with the villains throughout the flick, like in every other Batman movie. I also wasn't a fan of the army jacket & garbage bag face look. It looked ridiculous.

Then there is the overall look of the film. That meme above is pretty damn accurate. There wasn't a single scene in the entire movie set during the day. The sun apparently doesn't exist in this Gotham. Either that or the entire film took place of the course of a single night. Hell even the hospital was about as well lit as the alley where Thomas and Martha got shot. The entire movie dark for dark's sake.

Last complaint, Batman has a rogues (plural) gallery and we're already at Joker.. again? Jeezus, give him a rest. They show Arkham and they could literally have ANY Batman villain in there and we get the tired Joker. Sigh.

That's not to say it was all bad. There were definitely some things worthy of praise, first of which was the score. One of my favorite scores in recent memory. I also loved the use of Nirvana's "Something in the Way" to add to the moody feel of the film. Colin Farrell as Penguin was great. The waddle was pretty funny. Dano as Riddler was solid once we got to meet him 2.5 hours in. John Tuturro was fantastic. The Batmobile chase was amazing. Not seeing Thomas and Martha shot again is also a positive.

So yeah, not great but not bad. Solid 5/10.

*edit - at the very end of the credits where you get to the "thanks" and "trademarks of..." there is one for Oreo. "Oreo is trademark of..." Where in the movie were there Oreos? The gas station robbery somewhere? Kinda silly.

Draven

With the first MCU movie, Tony Stark revealed his identity to the world (even though there is time in the comics when they went through elaborate means to hide his identity). That set the standard.

And Civil War happened because some of them didn’t want to be under government control.

And as much as I love No Way Home, the identity thing could very well be a Sony thing. No other MCU character is hiding theirs.

Runaway

Ant-Man does, so did Black Panther outside Wakanda which is a hidden country, Ronin was a secret identity and while Wandas identity wasn't a secret, she manipulated a whole town to hide, even before herself.
Yes, secret identities aren't such a big thing in the MCU, but they still exist. You making it way to eas for yourself to pin Spidey on Sony, just to defend your hypothesis.

Why So Blu?

The point was that you're so far up the MCU's jock you can't give The Batman credit without sliding in some comment about why they can't cover some of the story points like the MCU did. Again, when it comes to The Batman fuck the MCU.

Draven

The point I'm making is that in Iron Man, the MCU made it clear that secret identities were not important. I am simply saying I don't understand why Batman continues to make them a big deal. In fact, this movie goes to ridiculous lengths to hide his identity. As I've said before, I can't believe a paramedic or a cop wouldn't have tried to remove his mask to help him after a bomb exploded directly in his face. What's the point of that? It would be interesting to see them have to deal with his identity being revealed.

All I was saying is that I think secret identities for super heroes are tired and I'd prefer to see something different with the Batman franchise. And my example is how well it works in the MCU. Tony Stark can still be a billionaire playboy AND publicly Iron Man. You're the one who then came off the top ropes to say I don't have Batman cred.

Artman

You'll have to see it again... funeral scene...flooded Gotham...