Rob V

Unless there is some incredible twist (ie Snoke ain't dead), there's nowhere, plausible, to go with EP9 except a ROTJ type-scenario where "good" prevails, peace is restored (boring). If the arc was fully developed, Rey and Kylo could have teamed up against Snoke and a legion of the temple-fleeing Jedi Luke was training. But now the only bad guy is Kylo -- and he's not half the bad-ass Vader was.

Jay G.

Were you really expecting something different after watching TFA? I mean, even in your alternate scenario, it's still good vs evil, just against a different antagonist.

Rob V

Not expecting, but hoping for a little more creativity than I've seen so far.

Noonan

Assuming they have Leia pass in 9 I guess we have to assume that the whole Solo/Skywalker bloodlines will be killed off. And the future will be up to the whims of a rando who didn't want a Lightsaber to begin with and a former Stormtrooper who fumbles into winning situations a la Jar-Jar.

milo bloom

...did you mean that sarcastically?

Cause Luke was technically a nobody. He wasn't being raised as a Jedi, dude was a dirt farmer shooting at rats and initially resisted leaving Tattooine.

And Han was a former Imperial officer who always flew by the seat of his pants, admittedly relying on his charm to get him through, but certainly not one for planning things out.


History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

Noonan

Luke was the son of the strongest force user seen in generations and a princess. I'd hardly call that nobody, even if he didn't know his lineage.

I agree that the Solo name is only important in regard to the story, not the world the story takes place in.

gryffinmaster

I can only imagine the fan response if the trilogy finished in anything other than a triumphant ending.

Maybe Kylo Ren and Rey should take over the galaxy together ...

Noonan

I wish they would go that route but they won't. Way too much backlash if they take the female lead/star and have her turn or get killed.

davidh777

I thought Space Leia was ludicrous, but what did Fisher's passing have to do with it? Would they have said, "Hey, this gives us a chance to get rid of that idea that we thought was cool but now realize is stupid!"

I agree. It might've been more satisfying to her die on the bridge than off-screen, but that would've been a huge revision to the movie. I think in that case they had to go with what they had and figure it out later (and now it's someone else's problem anyway ).

stingermck

Ive seen it 4 times, and every time the audience has applauded when Kylo kills Snoke. It's a great scene.

Noonan

It's a great scene unless you think about the context of the SW universe and what is happening. Then it's absurd.

fujishig

I mean, if you think about it from a SW storytelling perspective, I get it (hey, that loose end wasn't tied up), but from a SW universe perspective, how was that not plausible? Especially considering how the Emperor went out, these guys aren't omniscient and they love goading their proteges.

Noonan

I guess it just comes from what the previous movies have taught me. Someone who's clearly that much stronger in the force wouldn't get punked like that by an underling. Can't really compare Vader to Kylo...Vader was on a whole other level when he took out Palps. Kylo is still young and in training. Snoke had him under manipulation throughout the WHOLE movie except for that one quick moment?

Everything we've been told about masters of the force goes against that scene.

stingermck

It's that Skywalker blood. Ain't nothing to fuck with.

Noonan

Meh...if that's the case Anakin should have been able to take out Dooku when he was still pod racing as a child.

mcnabb

What's going to be funny to watch when Episode 9 comes out, and JJ somehow shoehorns Snoke back into the movie (there is already a rumor he is not dead), and changes that Rey is not a nobody, along with countless other plot points he set up in TFA.

It will be a total role reversal as all of the fans who loved TLJ will be probably be complaining that JJ screwed up the Trilogy, ironically to the fans like me who said that RJ screwed up the Trilogy in TLJ. Which goes to my point that Disney gets the ultimate blame for letting these guys have carte blanche on these stories.

gryffinmaster

That scene got some gasps and light applause at my showing. Luke surviving the blast onslaught got a big pop.

My audience thoroughly dug it.

I won’t be at all surprised if Rey is actually somebody, and Kylo Ren either had bad info or, more likely, was outright lying to her to get her to turn. That’s precisely what both of us took away from that scene.

kefrank

I doubt anything is going to change your mind, but you're trying to apply consistency to a franchise that is not all that consistent about this stuff in the first place. Even so, I thought it made plenty of sense and worked really well in the context of what we had learned in TFA and up to that point in TLJ:

• Kylo Ren is extremely powerful in the force and learned specifically from Snoke how to extract information from people's minds (so he has a solid understanding of how this "mind connection" part of the force works).
• Snoke revealed that he was responsible for the force connection conversations between Rey and Kylo Ren and talked specifically about what he "saw" in Kylo's mind.
• Kylo Ren, having been recently dressed down by Snoke ("take off that ridiculous mask") and now further recognizing how Snoke has been manipulating him, sees an opening to use Snoke's powers and arrogance against him: by masking his intentions being read by Snoke as ostensibly about striking down Rey. Star Wars doesn't typically have a lot of layers to it, but in this instance there's a nice little layer of Ren using a "mental mask" to defeat Snoke after Snoke had just shamed him into removing and destroying his physical mask.
• In a bit of irony, this is all of Snoke's training of Kylo Ren finally "clicking" for him as he becomes what Snoke supposedly wanted him to become.

Noonan

I get everything you're saying but that scene completely took me out of the movie. I actually said WTF out loud in the theater. I guess I'll just have to assume Kylo is even stronger in the force than we were led to believe...until Ep 9 of course, when he's beaten by Rey :/

Maybe it's the PT and how they portrayed Anakin at Kylo's age. IMO, even age, Anakin should be the strongest force user across any of the movies. But he wasn't able to do anything like that with Duuko, Greavas...etc and lost a battle to Obi-Wan due to his ego. I guess Kylo is just very lucky that his personality hasn't gotten the best of him yet?

GuessWho

Or, he honestly believed what he saw (ie bad info) because it's true form a certain point of view.

His vision may have rightfully shown him who raised her ... but not everyone is raised by their biological birthparents.

kefrank

It probably helps that I pretty much ignore the PT at this point. That said, the PT doesn't portray Anakin at Kylo's age. Kylo is 30. Anakin is roughly 23 when he gets cut down by Obi-Wan.

fujishig

Plus Anakin is basically trained by those wimpy jedi. I'm pretty sure if Anakin trained in the dark side for most of his adult life (and not crippled like he was after the lava) he would have been able to do crap like force lightning and stuff. I mean Darth Maul couldn't have been that old and he fought two jedi to a standstill before plot armor took over.

Snoke could easily be a clone or alien who could survive being cut in half (didn't Maul survive being cut in half?) or even some kind of Sith force ghost if they really wanted to bring him back.

Just please don't bring back Phasma only for her to be punked a third time by Finn.

Timber

What? Ben is a Skywalker at the height of his powers. Vader was a broken down (literally) old man. He was bested by his son, who was barely trained and according to Yoda not even a Jedi yet. Vader/Anakin was at his lowest point power wise when he took out Palps.

Edit: and who was manipulating who? Kylo already was planning on trying to pull Rey over with him so him killing Snoke wasn't a spur of the moment decision.

milo bloom

My wife and I both agreed immediately after the movie that Kylo is an Unreliable Narrator (tvtropes warning).

Does Rey have to come from a Skywalker or other known Jedi family to become important? Certainly not, but so much was built up in TFA, that it can't be just nothing. There's got to be something, but we need to be prepared for it be really out of left field.

Yeah, of all my issues with this film, Kylo Ren taking a level in badass is actually something I liked. Dude has raw power, and he's not an idiot. The opening bit where Snoke gives him crap over the helmet and then Kylo smashes it, never hiding himself again was honestly one of the best parts of the movie.

And I love your idea of the "mental mask", that's actually pretty deep for a SW movie.

Dan

That's how I took it. As I recall (I've only seen it once), he said it in a "well, you're nobody. So what do you think about that?" sort of tone where it could be easily implied that he's trying to break her spirit a bit. Rey may not be a Skywalker, and I agree that she doesn't even have to be, but if they reveal in IX that she's a Kenobi or something? I wouldn't be surprised.