fujishig

Oh, cool, when can we expect it on Disney+?

On a side note, I know they censored it but I was surprised they put Splash on there. I realize Hanks first big break is noteworthy but it's not like they put up Pretty Woman or anything.

Giantrobo

I can attest to that. In person, he seems to not bath and it's just nasty. I have friends who used to be in "the biz" and they also have stories of Ron and his "expectation" that he has when it comes to getting pussy. When they heard of his arrest they were happy and not surprised at all.

Mabuse

As far as My Father the Hero: In 1994 I was 14 myself and didn’t feel an ounce of guilt ogling that cute butt.

Decker

Yeah that's a bad look, Babs.

Nick Danger

When I was 14, I bought two books of erotic photography called Dreams of a Young Girl and Sisters by David Hamilton. When I looked at them again when I was 20, I realized that the erotic poses were all done by 13-year old models. I felt queasy and threw the books away.

Four women came forward decades later in 2016 and said that Hamilton raped them when they were children. I'm not too surprised.

fujishig

Oh, definitely I don't feel like retroactive guilt for my teenage self or anything. But if I watched it now...

Josh-da-man

Ellis' accusers have put up a website detailing their experiences.

https://www.somanyofus.com/testimonials

Doesn't sound he did anything illegal (though that one says she was 16, and she doesn't say how old she was when he started asking for "nudes"), but it's skeevy as fuck.

It seems like he was targeting and preying on women who had low self-esteem, were fragile, or traumatized, and drew some kind of pleasure from stringing them along and emotionally manipulating them, even if it rarely resulted in actual sex.

It's questionable behavior at the very least, but the sheer volume of the women he was juggling is staggering. I have no idea how he found time to write.

I was a member of the Warren Ellis Forum at the time, and vividly recall the experience of #2, "R. N. Fox," and watching that drama play out was one of the things soured me on the WEF. I can't remember if I just stopped posting or if I was banned for some minor faux pas, but I lurked on the board until the end, watching the train wreck slowly unfold.

I wanted so badly to jump into the thread and say "Or you could just pay your fucking share of the rent instead of being goldbricking sponges," but the comment would not have appreciated by the mob.

The other side of that story, from "Sam" can be read on his twitter account here, which he related a couple of weeks ago, before the above site went live:

brayzie

So I'm reading R. N. Fox's account and I don't see what Ellis did to her. Maybe I skipped something, but she let her girlfriend put up a 24hr webcam, her girlfriend beat her up, and at one point the guy who they lived with had some dude bust down the door and evict them because they weren't paying rent.

So instead of admitting her and her girlfriend weren't paying they're share of the rent, she words it as them refusing to pay HIS utility bills. Why doesn't she put up a site naming the ex who beat her up, or the bouncer who beat her up?

If Warren Ellis did something illegal go to the authorities with it. If not...I don't see what they're going for. There's emotionally manipulative people everywhere. Bad relationships. Friends who act like users. But this is the new wave, to put every single person in your life who you feel did you wrong, on blast for the whole world to see?

Goonies85

Feel the same way. And it's...well...if you read that website that just went live a couple days ago, they're clearly trying to destroy Ellis. And I'm not judging, but reading some of those things...well...he must've met like a ton of people who were depressed/suicidal...it's just weird...I don't know...I don't wanna get suspended again but I'm just saying people should read that s*** then make up their own minds...I don't see what he did was in any way "illegal", unlike other people accused of stuff like this...

Josh-da-man

The main thing that fascinates me about the Warren Ellis hullabaloo is that, twenty years ago when he was running the Warren Ellis Forum, he went out of his way to welcome women, promote female creators, defend his female posters against creepy guys, and create a "safe space" for women on his board (well before the idea of a "safe space" entered the popular lexicon).

And yet, there now dozens (I've even seen the claim of over one hundred mentioned in a couple of places) of women, including collaborators, prominent posters, and moderators on his forum, who are claiming that he was a creepy asshole behind the white knight facade he put forth publicly.

brayzie

I've only read "R.N. Fox"s account but she sounds like a sketchy, deceptive person as well. Are all these people partying together, drinking and going to bars?

Okay, here's the account of one of the sixty women, "Hannah:"

Are you kidding me? That's it?

I've just read "Jhayne's" story now.

Isn't that what most writers do? Write stories based on their own personal experiences, relationships, conversations, etc? "Holmes" seems like a somewhat generic last name but that particular part was stupid and wrong for him to do in regards to that point.

And at some point he somehow introduced her to a prostitute she knew. And when Jhayne wanted this prostitute to move in with her, Ellis apparently told her it was a bad idea, that she'd probably take advantage of her or be robbed. Sounds like some good advice to me.

That said, Ellis sounds emotionally manipulative, but I don't see how from this account how this is like #MeToo. You have Harvey Weinstein sexually assaulting and raping women. Then you have this 32 year old comic book writer who's flirting with a bunch of women online, and who are flirting back with him. I sympathize with anyone who's been emotionally manipulated or hurt by someone. And obviously Ellis sounds fucked up.

But I've also know women who've told me how they were victims of sexually abuse or assault. Some women who have been beaten up by their partners. A friend of mine was being sexually harassed by a co-worker. I'm not reading any of that so far from Ellis's accusers.

brayzie

Hollywood "Moments" From Not Too Long Ago

1. Adrian Brody forcing a kiss on Halle Berry at the Oscars (2003)

No self awareness whatsoever by that Academy member, Lisa Churgin describing it as "Moments like that are the best." You'd think this would be at least taken down from the official Oscars YouTube channel in light of what's been going on. Instead it's titled "Favorite Oscar® Moment-Adrian Brody Kissing Halle Berry." And Halle Berry was married to Eric Benet at the time, who was also in the audience. Why would you as a man force a kiss on a woman? That wouldn't fly in the real world, but it's somehow okay because it's "Hollywood"? It's also subconsciously fuels white supremacist/racism notions of black women being sexualized objects for white males.

She was later asked about it on What Happens L!ve With Andy Cohen in 2017.


The host is just grinning when Berry was asked about it. Halle Berry says it wasn't planned, she knew nothing about it, and said "I was like, 'WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING!?" And the host continues to grin. The audience is laughing and clapping. Obviously Berry at this point in time is indicating that it wasn't an okay thing to do but This jack ass interviewer, smiling and giddy, asks, "How was the kiss?"
Berry replies, "I don't know, I was too busy asking, 'What the fuck was going on?"

"That-is-awesome. That is amazing. I love that," says the host.

2. Scarlett Johanson groped on the red carpet by E! interviewer (2006)

That's completely inappropriate. And for some reason a lot of people didn't think anything of it. The interviewer also asked other women at the Golden Globes if they were wearing underwear down there, what kind of underwear they were wearing, and he specifically asked Eva Mendes "“Is it bikini down there, completely bare, your body hair?”

1. Paul Rudd gropes and fondles Eva Mendes's breast on stage at the Independent Spirit Awards (2010)

It doesn't matter that Eva Mendes said that this was a scripted bit. This is disgusting. Latin women are already overly sexualized in the media. Of the three films I've seen with Mendes, two of them have her butt ass naked while her romantic partner and the leading man is fully dressed in the scene. It's gratuitous and unnecessary considering how it seems nothing more than eye candy for the straight males in the audience. So it's especially disgusting that a white male actor would think it's appropriate to grope a Latina actress's breast at an awards ceremony. Just reinforcing the stereotype of Latinas as sexual objects, not to mention the subtext of Latinas as sexual property of white males. It's not surprise that there's a problem with sexual harassment and sexual assault in Hollywood, when this is what's shown as permissible in the mainstream.

The entertainment industry and the public, as a whole, didn't question any of this as it's happening at the time, right in front of their faces, so it's no surprise that behind closed doors this other shit is going on.

Ash Ketchum

At least in that last one, if you watch it, the tables were turned and Rudd got some embarrassing payback when Rosario Dawson leaped up onstage and grabbed his crotch. And held it!

Coral

The last one I don't have a problem with as it was consensual between two adults.
You can call it gratuitous and pushing a stereotype - but the topic is "Sexual Harassment/Assault in Hollywood" and it was neither.

All these examples I keep seeing of unacceptable behavior and still no one seems to care about Demi Moore making out with a 15 year old kid in the 80s.

brayzie

The point is that it it cultivated and attitude where this type of behavior seems permissible. It’s exploitive and gross to treat a woman like that. And it just helps the public believe that stuff like the other two examples is normal.

Where are the parents when that was going on?

The problem is many people, mostly guys, are going to say “lucky kid,” “he was enjoying himself,” etc.

If it was an adult male actor doing that to a 15 year girl, those people’s opinions would probably change. We have a thread in The Other subforum where female sex offenders are rated hot-or-not, so society’s attitude in general is really twisted as well.

Ash Ketchum

Are we sure the Paul Rudd/Eva Mendes one was "consenting"? Maybe he wasn't supposed to touch her at all and just did it anyway, hence Rosario Dawson's reaction. I don't know.

brayzie

Exactly.
For all we know, Mendes might do an interview a year from now saying how she felt pressured to go through with it, how the producers of the awards show convinced her to do it, how she felt violated, there was skewed power dynamic, etc. Actresses, singers and celebrities who had initially consented to sexually explicit or suggestive situations for their career only to come out years later and say that it was a traumatic experience.

Alicia Keys opens up on being “manipulated” and “objectified” by photographer when she was 19 “I swear that I’ll never again let someone rob me of my power"

And not only that, but what kind of message is being sent? Even if someone, a woman co-worker consented to something like that, you absolutely could not do that in the work place. But Hollywood.

GoldenJCJ

Hollywood is that weird grey area that doesn’t exist in a more black/white work environment. In Hollywood, many times actors’ jobs are to kiss, show breasts, roll around with each other while almost completely nude, etc.

In movies, actors sign legal contracts that state how much nudity to show, who they kiss, etc. but there’s also always been that underbelly of Hollywood where actresses are pressured to do those things, while technically consenting, are agreed upon because there are a million other girls who will step in to do it if they don’t.

brayzie

I get that, except none of three examples were them playing roles in a movie or television show.

That itself is a problem. If an actress consents to showing nudity, doing a sex scene, or worse, a rape scene, most people are okay with it. It's not real, it's just art. It's her choice. It's "empowering." Don't be a prude. Etc.

Then the public acts surprised when they read headlines like this:

‘Last Tango in Paris’ director admitted Marlon Brando committed rape on camera - The San Jose Mercury News

Josh-da-man

This is from CDAN, so it's probably bullshit...

https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2...hollywood.html



I'm trying to imagine how, in the 60s, that would have gone down if Johnny Carson was actually anally raped by an angry actor backstage at The Tonight Show. (The host is obviously Johnny Carson, and the sodomizer is probably Sonny Tufts, though I don't think I've ever heard of him until now.) I can't imagine they would press charges because they wouldn't want it in the papers. Would the media have even touched that back then? Or would they just vague it up as an "assault?"

Coral

It was mentioned earlier that it was scripted and it looked totally scripted (including the boob grab) - so my comments were based on that.
If the boob grab wasn't scripted and consent wasn't given, then it's obviously not cool.

Coral

There's obviously a double standard going on. And it's not just from the men, the women too. Why aren't women calling out Demi Moore for that? Even women seem to be less vocal about female high school teachers banging young students.

And the double standards goes beyond sex, and many people seem to have no problem with it.
How many times have you watched a sitcom where a female physically assaults a man and it's played off for laughs? I'm not sure there's a single sitcom that it didn't happen at least once. However, if a man did that to a woman - then it becomes a "very special and important episode" that opens up the discussion about abuse... and it certainly wouldn't be a main male character that did the abuse since fans would turn against him and he'd be written off the show.

Ash Ketchum

The comments on that item are pretty funny.

Giantrobo

Careful. This is dangerously close to "Porn Actors can't be raped/molested". None of what you say makes it ok. But you know this...

fujishig

On the subject of Demi Moore: I had never seen that video before all of this Weinstein stuff happened, and when I did I did find it disturbing. But was that video released a long time ago and we just noticed it or something?

I agree that as a society we have a different reaction when a man does something to a woman as opposed to vice versa, but for me at least, if either party is underaged it immediately goes into the disturbing category no matter what.