That's why I specifically referenced this forum. I have no doubt there are far bigger morons elsewhere.

I'm going to act like that isn't a bias against DC because I still don't believe there is one. What examples do you have of Marvel and DC doing the same thing that Marvel is given a pass on? I'm genuinely curious.

I didn't read it that way at all, not sure why you thought that based on my reply since I never mentioned anything like that.

Sorry what?

We don't have the full plot to the film yet as to the change in heart of Tony to willingly give someone over to the government but as was pointed out he probably isn't happy with Steve for harboring a fugitive (Bucky).

Fair enough. I do think there are reasons to make the fight work and I'm sure that won't be the full plot of the film (although it is the damn title). I just wish they hadn't gone that route personally and just feel like it was a lazy way to get the two characters on screen together. It does feel like it was done out of desperation to try and get a film close to The Avengers put together without doing any of the build to get there. Especially the fact that they added in Wonder Woman on top of Batman and Superman.

You can kinda say they already pressed the panic button when they blinked first and moved from the May release date they were gonna share with Civil War (granted, they didn't know what they were up against for the longest time) which was what, after Guardians or Winter Soldier came out?They saw what Marvel had and knew that even with the two greatest superheroes in their camp, they had no chance.

Oh, I don't know...

"Iron Man and Cap coming to blows? Doesn't make sense, but I'll roll with it because Marvel."

"Batman fighting Superman? So fucking stupid. WB has no fucking clue what they're doing."

But but...Marvel is so established!

They are, which most certainly makes a difference here although I know you can't seem to see anything but DC hate Do you really think seeing these two characters on screen through 4 or 5 movies doesn't do anything in establishing the conflict in Civil War?

I'm not sure if Corvin was half sarcastic given the winky, but Iron Man and Cap trading arguments throughout previous movies resulting in them coming to blows here makes sense to me and isn't just some excuse. I don't think i've seen anyone really say "makes no sense, but Marvel" or to that effect. I've see some question the motivation and stance of each hero as evidenced here, but then again a lot of folks actually hate the comic Civil War too so I don't think there's been a universal "pass" given.

As for DC, I actually don't have any issues with Batman and Supes fighting here. I know there's been some complaints that Batman should be smart enough to know Superman's intentions but honestly as far as complaints about the movie goes I figure that was far down the list and not as universal as the dislike for say... Snyder, Eisenberg as Lex, too many characters, etc.

I think anything with Batman and/or Superman will do well. But I doubt anything with just DC's other superheroes will perform well, given how the popularity of their characters drops a lot after those 2 heavyweights.

One thing I do think DC has over Marvel is their supervillains are better and more popular, so I think them making "Suicide Squad" shows that DC agrees with this view.

Really? I actually think Wonder Woman has a chance to do really well.

But it's still here. even if it is in smaller doses based on what YOU have perceived.


I only need one

Avengers AoU - MASS DESTRUCTION

1. Hulk DESTROYS a city in a mad rage. Then Hulkbuster IM and Hulk both do considerable damage to the city as they fight it out. No way people didn't die. Yet no one was crying about how Iron Man should have lured Hulk into an empty field away from the city like they did for Man of Steel.

2. They raised and dropped a city... plenty of death and destruction. Again, no way anyone didn't get killed. I didn't hear anyone calling this "Death Porn" like they did for Man of Steel.

Yeah, like I said, Marvel films get a pass...


Just making sure you and others understand I'm not bashing Marvel films because i support ALL comics films..even when they suck like the Iron Man solo films.

Marvel isn't getting a pass. I'm really not sure where you're getting that from. As far as the events from Age of Ultron it seems clear that some of the fallout from those events is going to be addressed in Civil War.

Much like the wanton destruction in Man o' Steel is causing fallout in BvS. The danger is throwing too much in at once.

I have no idea what you mean by this. Looking back at the conversation I still maintain I don't really see anyone here call each other fanboys just for liking a DC movie at all like you said. That's all I was getting at.

I think a lot of that is how both sequences are framed. In the Avengers movies you frequently see Iron Man stop to save civilians or scan the building for people before he ultimately drops Hulk in to it. It also helps that the general Marvel tone is much lighter, and you still get those little Tony Stark quips. I haven't seen Man of Steel since buying it on Blu-ray (again, i'm someone that likes the movie), but I don't recall those civilian moments and with the sequence feeling much longer and having a wider range of destruction, I can see where the disconnect lies.

I can see why you see it as a pass, but I see it as each respective movie putting the audience in a different mindset and position leading up to and during each fight. A lot of it is simply the difference in tone between each property too.

For what it's worth, I never understood people whining about the death count thing myself and I'm sure I mentioned as much in the Man of Steel reviews thread too - just saying I can see a difference between the two.

That's cool, I never assumed you did. I've basically been arguing the same thing for everyone calling for DC hate and bias, you could just swap Iron Man with Man of Steel in your sentence. I feel like most people want to see these comic book movies succeed whether it be Marvel or DC.

Yeah in the fight between Hulkbuster and Hulk it at least appeared that Tony was trying to protect civilians. Same thing at the end of the film all the heroes were trying to help the civilians. In Man of Steel Superman was so caught up in the fight with Zod that he didn't seem to care about anyone else or the destruction they were causing. He made sure Lois was alright was about it.

Add in that Tony's main objective was to somehow contain Hulk.

His fight literally starts w/ a failed attempt at containment. Then leading into Stark trying to take him down. Next tries to fly him away. Hulk stops that. Stark throws out some mist, sleeping gas or whatever he was using. Hulk doesn't take it. Again... leads into a fight that Stark isn't really winning. Finally Stark just drops him while also taking out some structure beams to lessen the surrounding damage from his final attempt at taking down Hulk.

Tony NEVER not thinks about everybody else. He's limited in that fight based on where he is. He's trying to minimize the destruction and for the most part succeeds cuz his plan is to take Hulk out of the equation as fast as he can. The fight itself is rather short and for the damage did? It's actually pretty low. Stark was very smart in what he did.

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I like MoS to a point. But... Snyder can't direct emotions or logic too well. It has to look cool. He's all visual, no heart. Which is awkward cuz Supes is very much about heart. Whatever we do get is mostly sold from the solid cast he has and not by Snyder evoking depth through his imagery so much.

I'm not talking about a pass by script writers. I'm talking about harsh criticism, or a lack thereof by Fans and others.

I get it...you guys claim you don't see it here on dvdtalk. Fine. But I have seen plenty of this bias and pass giving in other forums/comic pages.

Well, again... I never said anything about people calling others Fanboys. Not sure where you got that.


Fair enough. But I still don't agree that the scenes were all that different between the two films. As far as tone, it was a hard tone for a hard film. We know DC has dark films and dark shit happens in dark films.

Well, I'm sure all that will be addressed in BvS. I suppose that will make it all "ok"....sigh.

Tony BUYS THE BUILDING he's about to destroy with the Hulk and the entire end sequence of Ultron is them trying to get every single person out of the city.

Where is the equivalent of that in MoS? Superman kills Zod to protect one group of people after participating in the deaths of literally thousands of people.

Because of this exchange earlier where you said you get "called the same" in reference to fanboys.

There was still mass death and destruction in both films. And understand that i have NO problem with death and destruction in either film. The fact that fans needs to see people being evacuated is silly to me. I would always understand that the city authorities or military is doing that. i don't need to see the hero doing it because in my mind he/she is already doing what they can to save a city.

Lesson learned DC writers/Superman...KILL THE BAD GUY EARLIER.

The Hulk's rampage is probably one of the things that's going to start the "Civil War," and seems to be the reason Banner took off to parts unknown at the end of the film.

I don't know I just have a hard time viewing Superman as heroic during the final fight. I mean he's caught up in taking down Zod but in the midst of it causes a hell of a lot of damage to Metropolis and as we hear from the Batman V Superman trailer thousands of lives were lost. Its not so much about needing to see people evacuated its more about Superman being so wreckless. I am glad that is being addressed in Batman V Superman but I think that's a major issue I and others have with destruction in Man of Steel as opposed to Age of Ultron. The Avengers at least seemed like they were trying to protect people even if not everyone survived.

That was literally the lesson I felt MoS was selling when I walked out of the theater. If only Superman had killed Zod as soon as he could, the innocents wouldn't have been threatened in that museum or whatever. Next time just snap his neck as soon as you can. Of course, in comics and in Injustice, Superman taking a life to prevent the loss of more lives usually leads to him feeling like he has to control everything and take over, because he knows best (or exile himself and cause a split personality).

Or just yell and skip to coming in and working at the Daily Planet.

But I'll still see the movie, eventually (and hey, Marvel doesn't get priority either, I JUST watched Winter Soldier this month...)

I don't think DC fail. These comic book movies are still mostly trying to appeal to the mainstream crowds. I don't think the average consumer cares as much about destruction porn or a darker Superman as the folks posting on forums like this. Man of Steel was the #3 selling Blu Ray of 2013 and went on to make over 100 million dollars in home video sales. BvS will be huge and so will Suicide Squad. While there will be the occasional misstep(Green Lantern) WB will continue to make successful DC movies for years to come.