Yeah, it really depends on what you consider a failure. Man of Steel made a lot of money, but was a steaming pile.

As much as I disliked MoS, and would prefer a Superman movie that my kids can actually watch/look up to, I really hope they don't fail because I like DC.

Wait, Timm's doing another DC cartoon? Eh, the movies can crash and burn then.

Don't care if they fail. Just DO NOT FUCK WITH THE FLASH TV SERIES.

Nope, but it won't topple Marvel so they'll probably reboot the whole thing in 3 years.

DC will do fine if they just get back to basics:

A fat Superman? Yes, back to basics is what they need. I need someone to look up to.

I don't think they'll fail but I don't see DC reaching the heights of the MCU. I think they're on pretty shakey ground and really need to knock the first couple films out of the park. Man of Steel was already met with mixed reviews but it technically came out before plans for a large cinematic universe were established so it can be discounted to some degree.

I think Batman V Superman will make money but like Man of Steel will probably be met with mixed reviews. The hype for it all around honestly doesn't seem as big as it should be in my opinion which could be a bad indicator. Casuals are going to go out and see it but I question it's long term success. Suicide Squad I think is going to be a film that mostly appeals to fanboys but probably not to a very wide audience. If Batman V Superman disappoints it'll be a hard sell for other character films going forward in my opinion.

I guarantee WB will lose their shit if BvS doesn't clear $300m.

I think 400m is the bar to be honest. But it's really about worldwide as well... it better do 1B+. Not sure if anything would happen if it doesn't clear those markers, except spend less on the upcoming solo movies.

I think the real danger is that WB will hit the panic button if one or two of the films underperforms.

And by that I mean doesn't meet their expectations, not that it doesn't turn a decent profit.

I think they're really going to be scrutinizing the DC performance against the Marvel performance. They're going to be comparing BvS to Civil War (Bats vs Supes against Cap vs Iron Man), and they're probably expecting Suicide Squad to compare to Guardians of the Galaxy.

I think there's a real danger that WB is going to scuttle the whole project if it doesn't do Marvel numbers right out of the gate.

And the DCEU already looks darker and grittier (and thus less "kid friendly") than the brightly colored and quip-filled MCU. I don't know if that will bite them in the ass when it comes to box office or merchandising.

I can see this too. They seem to be banking hard on Batman V Superman selling the rest of the DC films to come. If it underperforms even a little I think things could go south pretty fast.

Yeah and there's no way that either will compare. Particularly Suicide Squad in my opinion. Batman V Superman I can see making comparisons but DC and the versions of the characters they're using for this film have no history so in a way I can kind of see people not really caring too much. It'll just be another movie whereas Captain America: Civil War has build up and people have history with the characters.

Bingo. I've mentioned this a few times but no one has really replied. If you're a parent do you really think that you're going to take your kid to see Suicide Squad? Think about it for a bit, just the title alone having the word suicide is probably enough of a turn off for a lot of people and especially parents. On top of that the concept of the film is villains that are supposed to be heroes. The only people who are really going to get that in my opinion are fanboys.

I think the dark tone won't hurt Batman V Superman quite as badly initially. If its too dark and not kid friendly it could hurt the box office though in my opinion. Fact of the matter is as much as fanboys like to think these films are for them a huge chunk of who they're being targeted to is supposed to be kids and families who will go together. If they're too dark compared to the MCU I definitely think these films are going to be hurting.

As already stated; these movies will make a lot of money but I think they will be mediocre at best. I'm a huge DC fan but I have no confidence in anything their now producing. I will watch this but really looking forward to Captain America and everything else Marvel is doing.

I voted "no"

However, based on DVDtalk DC threads where bitching and moaning about what could be done better is king no matter what...and Internet Nerd Rage over WW not having a costume like Lynda Carter's and Superman being too angry, and the general PASSES given to any Marvel film no matter how mediocre (Iron Man films etc) they are. YES, DC will fail before it even fuckin' gets films onscreen.

I love the argument people try to use about those of us who like Marvel films giving them a pass. As if the films they're making aren't good and people are just saying they're good because they're fanboys. That's not the case at all really, Marvel has made a series of good to great films over the course of seven plus years and are still going strong. Some of the films are better than others but they haven't made a truly bad film.

It's no different from when those of us who enjoyed Man of Steel or any other DC film got called the same as if some of those films weren't any good.

True. But my point remains. The deservedly great momentum Marvel has is allowing even the not so great films to be held higher than they should be. But hey, if you like a film you like a film. Who cares what others think. I know I don't when it comes to DC films....

I'm a DC fan...but bottom line, I support ALL COMIC films and I want them ALL to be successful no matter what Comic company owns them.

But Marvel is stretching that history into places it hasn't earned, with Civil War being a prime example. The whole "He's my friend." "So was I." exchange plays great in the trailer, until you think about Cap and Iron Man's actual interactions over the course of a whole two movies.

"He's my friend." "Well I guess I was kind of an antagonist dickhead" is more apt, but I guess it doesn't hit the same notes.

I disagree I guess. We've only seen them in two films together yes but its implied that they have a history with each other not necessarily seen on screen that's happened since The Avengers. Plus by and large the storylines Marvel goes with are set up to some extent at least. Its better than Batman V Superman where there's literally no build and they just fight at the first opportunity.

I guess I disagree too, since the Iron Man films set Stark up as the kind of guy who will tell the government to go fuck themselves when they ask for his super suit, yet here he's turning on a friend to turn someone over to the government.

Superman vs. Batman works better without a history between the two. A flying god man shows up and starts using cities as his wrestling ring and the distrustful Batman has issues with that. Heroes fighting when they first meet is a long-standing comic book trope (largely established by Marvel).

I don't think i've seen that sentiment, at least here on this forum. As I mentioned in one of the other random DC threads where this has come up, everyone is entitled to their own opinion about a movie but the fact is that ALL of the Marvel movies so far has been critically received better then Man of Steel. It's not fanboyism or bias or giving passes to one company over another; nothing wrong with those that liked Man of Steel (which I do too), but let's not act like a lot of the negativity around the DCEU (I guess it's DC Extended Universe now) isn't pulled out of thin air.

Well, I can't account for what you have and have not seen any more than you can account for what I've seen or not seen. I have seen that sentiment in other places. Places far worse than dvdtalk.


First of all I never even said anything about Fanboys. Someone else brought that up. And it is giving passes when when all you hear about are issues with things that happen in DC films and practically the same thing happens in Marvel films and no one says a thing. I've seen this brought up in many places online. People are so much more willing to cut Marvel films some slack and that's fine. And that's fine... But let's not act like that isn't some bias against DC....

As I said before, with the exception of the Iron Man films, I love the recent Marvel Films as much as any other comic fan. So I'm not saying that Marvel hasn't had DESERVED success with good films. So for you and others to read it that way is a mistake.

Back on Topic...DC will be fine in spite of bias against what they do.

What Marvel has done has never struck me as "desperate". MoS seemed desperate - so tonally off from previous DC movies that it barely felt like Superman. Batman vs. Superman was okay at first, but then Wonder Woman gets shoehorned in. Then Doomsday. Then whoever else shows up. They haven't earned any of this.

Since Marvel set the standard with a very clear plan that they committed to, DC is forced to play catchup. And to me, it FEELS forced. The flipside is that DC is doing really well with their TV shows. But Arrow didn't start with The Flash and The Atom and Hawkgirl from day 1. Each show has been allowed to grow which then leads to the next show and the next show. I feel like Legends of Tomorrow was pretty earned as we have some history with most of those characters at this point.

So it's not that they are incapable of pulling this off - it's just that they should look to the TV shows to help develop their movies. I probably would have made a Wonder Woman movie after MoS. There is enough "they should make a Black Widow movie" sentiment floating around that it would have been really neat if DC was the first to the table with a female-led superhero movie. Then Batman vs. Superman would feel a bit more organic.

To be fair, the comics don't exactly give a compelling reason why Tony (and Reed and others) were selling out their friends either (and then they literally wiped away his mind to redeem him). In the context of the Civil War movie, though (and I have no idea what the actual plot points are), I can see the problems with just forgiving someone like the Winter Soldier and letting him go free.

Ok, fair enough. While I can understand the "desperate" label, I see it more as a cashing in on Comic Book Craze fueled largely by Marvel's momentum. It's a business...it's what businesses do.