Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
04-04-15, 07:58 PM
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04-04-15, 09:27 PM
#77
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
04-04-15, 09:30 PM
#78
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
I'm with you. The flaws in Alien 3 are readily apparent, but they're somehow transcended by its sheer boldness and surprising depth. It's a dark, disturbing, cinematic nightmare with profound layers of redemption and loss.
04-05-15, 03:36 AM
#79
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
I wouldn't consider the Bluray DVD menu as part of the story but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not canon. Obviously FOX was in charge of how the new DVDs are presented and agreed to add that small bit to the Aliens canon. Just like how George Lucas or Lucasfilms made a Star Wars video game (The Force Unleashed) canon.
04-05-15, 07:15 AM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
But it doesn't count. A fucking menu? Was that info anywhere beyond the BD?
Whatever cut. It has always bothered me how some of the special effects just look bad. That stand out like crazy. They were working more w/ digital on this one and it just looks bad for my eyes.
I still haven't seen the Assembly Cut again. The pacing of the TC is really good though. Just flew by really well for me.
Whatever cut. It has always bothered me how some of the special effects just look bad. That stand out like crazy. They were working more w/ digital on this one and it just looks bad for my eyes.
I still haven't seen the Assembly Cut again. The pacing of the TC is really good though. Just flew by really well for me.
Last edited by Solid Snake; 04-05-15 at 07:43 AM.
04-05-15, 08:07 AM
#82
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
"Alien" was a much braver film:
- it used the biomechanical designs of H.R. Giger (which are so nightmarishly bizarre that it was a lot more risky to use that back then than you might think now)
- it left the original of the alien and the derelict ship unexplained
- it showed the chestburster in all of its gory detail
- it killed off all of the character aside from a woman, who alone kills the alien (maybe that seems like no big deal now, but that was a relatively new thing in 1979)
- it cynically had the company everyone worked for coldly send an order that the crew was expendable in the task of capturing the alien creature.
Every one of these was an innovation of the 1st film and each one ran the risk of turning out badly (and may have failed to work without such a talented filmmaker at the helm). I think "Alien" was so innovative for its time (1979) that it ran a high risk of flopping at the box office. (Ridley Scott's next film "Blade Runner" was similarly innovative and DID FLOP at the box office in 1982. It only gained its fandom later due to home video.)
Making something as new as "Alien" back in 1979 was very brave and risky, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to do anymore (preferring reboots and sequels these days instead of taking a chance on something daringly new).
The script for "Alien" is the best of any film in the series. It created the mystery of everything to do with the series: it gave us the derelict ship, the space jockey, the alien eggs, the facehugger, the chestburster, the acid blood, the alien creature itself. All of those are in its script. It also created memorable characters that I felt for when each was killed (unlike "Alien 3" in which the majority of the characters were virtually indistinguishable bald guys who died at the end like something out of a video game).
You did not read what I said about this. I did not say "Alien" had the best character development (I would say that "Aliens" had that), all I said was that "Alien 3" had the worst character development of these 3 films.
I've come around from initially hating "Alien 3" to now liking it. But it is still the runt of the litter (IMO) and both "Alien" and "Aliens" are better movies, so I disagree completely with that "Movie Defense Force" video claiming that "Alien 3" is the best of the series.
So are you saying that you think "Alien 3" is better than both "Alien" and "Aliens"? If not, then we agree (not disagree).
- it used the biomechanical designs of H.R. Giger (which are so nightmarishly bizarre that it was a lot more risky to use that back then than you might think now)
- it left the original of the alien and the derelict ship unexplained
- it showed the chestburster in all of its gory detail
- it killed off all of the character aside from a woman, who alone kills the alien (maybe that seems like no big deal now, but that was a relatively new thing in 1979)
- it cynically had the company everyone worked for coldly send an order that the crew was expendable in the task of capturing the alien creature.
Every one of these was an innovation of the 1st film and each one ran the risk of turning out badly (and may have failed to work without such a talented filmmaker at the helm). I think "Alien" was so innovative for its time (1979) that it ran a high risk of flopping at the box office. (Ridley Scott's next film "Blade Runner" was similarly innovative and DID FLOP at the box office in 1982. It only gained its fandom later due to home video.)
Making something as new as "Alien" back in 1979 was very brave and risky, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to do anymore (preferring reboots and sequels these days instead of taking a chance on something daringly new).
The script for "Alien" is the best of any film in the series. It created the mystery of everything to do with the series: it gave us the derelict ship, the space jockey, the alien eggs, the facehugger, the chestburster, the acid blood, the alien creature itself. All of those are in its script. It also created memorable characters that I felt for when each was killed (unlike "Alien 3" in which the majority of the characters were virtually indistinguishable bald guys who died at the end like something out of a video game).
So are you saying that you think "Alien 3" is better than both "Alien" and "Aliens"? If not, then we agree (not disagree).
04-05-15, 08:12 AM
#83
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
Alien 3 has a lot of good things going for it, but it also has quite a few glaring flaws. It just isn't on the same level as the first two. I feel like time has been kinder to Alien 3 because Fincher has become a critical/internet darling, and the Alien movies since have been even worse.
04-05-15, 08:41 AM
#84
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
Alien 3 has a lot of good things going for it, but it also has quite a few glaring flaws. It just isn't on the same level as the first two. I feel like time has been kinder to Alien 3 because Fincher has become a critical/internet darling, and the Alien movies since have been even worse.
04-05-15, 09:58 AM
#85
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
But it doesn't count. A fucking menu? Was that info anywhere beyond the BD?
Whatever cut. It has always bothered me how some of the special effects just look bad. That stand out like crazy. They were working more w/ digital on this one and it just looks bad for my eyes.
I still haven't seen the Assembly Cut again. The pacing of the TC is really good though. Just flew by really well for me.
Whatever cut. It has always bothered me how some of the special effects just look bad. That stand out like crazy. They were working more w/ digital on this one and it just looks bad for my eyes.
I still haven't seen the Assembly Cut again. The pacing of the TC is really good though. Just flew by really well for me.
04-05-15, 10:12 AM
#86
04-05-15, 03:16 PM
#87
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Thread Starter
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
"Alien" was a much braver film:
- it used the biomechanical designs of H.R. Giger (which are so nightmarishly bizarre that it was a lot more risky to use that back then than you might think now)
- it left the original of the alien and the derelict ship unexplained
- it showed the chestburster in all of its gory detail
- it killed off all of the character aside from a woman, who alone kills the alien (maybe that seems like no big deal now, but that was a relatively new thing in 1979)
- it cynically had the company everyone worked for coldly send an order that the crew was expendable in the task of capturing the alien creature.
Every one of these was an innovation of the 1st film and each one ran the risk of turning out badly (and may have failed to work without such a talented filmmaker at the helm). I think "Alien" was so innovative for its time (1979) that it ran a high risk of flopping at the box office. (Ridley Scott's next film "Blade Runner" was similarly innovative and DID FLOP at the box office in 1982. It only gained its fandom later due to home video.)
Making something as new as "Alien" back in 1979 was very brave and risky, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to do anymore (preferring reboots and sequels these days instead of taking a chance on something daringly new).
The script for "Alien" is the best of any film in the series. It created the mystery of everything to do with the series: it gave us the derelict ship, the space jockey, the alien eggs, the facehugger, the chestburster, the acid blood, the alien creature itself. All of those are in its script. It also created memorable characters that I felt for when each was killed (unlike "Alien 3" in which the majority of the characters were virtually indistinguishable bald guys who died at the end like something out of a video game).
You did not read what I said about this. I did not say "Alien" had the best character development (I would say that "Aliens" had that), all I said was that "Alien 3" had the worst character development of these 3 films.
I've come around from initially hating "Alien 3" to now liking it. But it is still the runt of the litter (IMO) and both "Alien" and "Aliens" are better movies, so I disagree completely with that "Movie Defense Force" video claiming that "Alien 3" is the best of the series.
So are you saying that you think "Alien 3" is better than both "Alien" and "Aliens"? If not, then we agree (not disagree).
- it used the biomechanical designs of H.R. Giger (which are so nightmarishly bizarre that it was a lot more risky to use that back then than you might think now)
- it left the original of the alien and the derelict ship unexplained
- it showed the chestburster in all of its gory detail
- it killed off all of the character aside from a woman, who alone kills the alien (maybe that seems like no big deal now, but that was a relatively new thing in 1979)
- it cynically had the company everyone worked for coldly send an order that the crew was expendable in the task of capturing the alien creature.
Every one of these was an innovation of the 1st film and each one ran the risk of turning out badly (and may have failed to work without such a talented filmmaker at the helm). I think "Alien" was so innovative for its time (1979) that it ran a high risk of flopping at the box office. (Ridley Scott's next film "Blade Runner" was similarly innovative and DID FLOP at the box office in 1982. It only gained its fandom later due to home video.)
Making something as new as "Alien" back in 1979 was very brave and risky, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to do anymore (preferring reboots and sequels these days instead of taking a chance on something daringly new).
The script for "Alien" is the best of any film in the series. It created the mystery of everything to do with the series: it gave us the derelict ship, the space jockey, the alien eggs, the facehugger, the chestburster, the acid blood, the alien creature itself. All of those are in its script. It also created memorable characters that I felt for when each was killed (unlike "Alien 3" in which the majority of the characters were virtually indistinguishable bald guys who died at the end like something out of a video game).
You did not read what I said about this. I did not say "Alien" had the best character development (I would say that "Aliens" had that), all I said was that "Alien 3" had the worst character development of these 3 films.
I've come around from initially hating "Alien 3" to now liking it. But it is still the runt of the litter (IMO) and both "Alien" and "Aliens" are better movies, so I disagree completely with that "Movie Defense Force" video claiming that "Alien 3" is the best of the series.
So are you saying that you think "Alien 3" is better than both "Alien" and "Aliens"? If not, then we agree (not disagree).
I'm not 100% agreeing the the Movie Defense Force video, I just think it's an interesting perspective.
And if Alien 3 is the runt of the litter, where do you rank Alien Resurrection? (Or maybe we're on the same page in that I don't even count A:R at all).
As for the characters: I think Clemens and Dillon are far more fleshed out and realized characters than Brett, Lambert, Kane, and Parker. And as for all the nondescript bald british guys getting ripped to pieces by the aliens, no one makes that complaint against the tons of generic soldiers in Aliens getting attacked. How much do we know about Spunkmeyer, Frost, Ferro, ext.? Prisoners Morse and Golic had relatively more depth than they did.
I like Alien 3 on its own terms and despite its flaws. They couldn't make a science fiction film today with its cojones. And I don't think it's 100% fair to pit it against Alien and Aliens since the the studio wasn't screwing with Scott or Cameron the way they were with Fincher.
Last edited by PatD; 04-05-15 at 03:32 PM.
04-05-15, 03:44 PM
#89
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
04-05-15, 03:53 PM
#90
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
I really dig the production design for AR. And Ron Perlman. That one bothered me the most though as a kid cuz of the clones. That shit was fucked up back in the day to me and it still bothers me now.
I'll see the both cuts on that one too. Cuz it's the longer cut I remember the most but I honestly don't remember the differences between the two. I could check it out but I like to see it for myself to see if there's a feel for it in its difference.
I'll see the both cuts on that one too. Cuz it's the longer cut I remember the most but I honestly don't remember the differences between the two. I could check it out but I like to see it for myself to see if there's a feel for it in its difference.
04-05-15, 04:03 PM
#91
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
I really dig the production design for AR. And Ron Perlman. That one bothered me the most though as a kid cuz of the clones. That shit was fucked up back in the day to me and it still bothers me now.
I'll see the both cuts on that one too. Cuz it's the longer cut I remember the most but I honestly don't remember the differences between the two. I could check it out but I like to see it for myself to see if there's a feel for it in its difference.
I'll see the both cuts on that one too. Cuz it's the longer cut I remember the most but I honestly don't remember the differences between the two. I could check it out but I like to see it for myself to see if there's a feel for it in its difference.
04-05-15, 04:05 PM
#92
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
I loved the visual aesthetic too it. At the time Jeunet had done City of Lost Children (I want a Blu-ray of that now!) and there are certain shots reminiscent of it. It also helped that the great Darius Khondji shot it. He had also shot Se7en. The making-of documentaries on the Anthology set are great and shed light on AR.
04-05-15, 04:06 PM
#93
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
Like an after the fact type of thing, I accept the extended as a Jeunet film. Not sure if I totally think of it as a Alien film though.
I'll see the TC tomorrow.
I'll see the TC tomorrow.
04-05-15, 04:30 PM
#94
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cGxVhIRP4Hk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
04-05-15, 04:55 PM
#95
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
Nice to see some love for Alien: Resurrection.
04-05-15, 05:09 PM
#96
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
"When you are making a movie you are making something that is going to last forever, especially now with the internet. So there is always going to be a shitty Alien movie out there. A shitty Alien movie with my name on it." - Joss Whedon
04-05-15, 05:14 PM
#97
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
04-05-15, 05:29 PM
#98
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Thread Starter
Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)
Oh, I have no love for Alien Resurrection (it's EASILY the suckiest of the Weaver-Alien movies and just a pie fight away from being a full blown farce).
I was just doing a mitzvah. (It *is* better than AvP1, AvP2, and Prometheus)
I was just doing a mitzvah. (It *is* better than AvP1, AvP2, and Prometheus)