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Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

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Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Old 04-02-15, 03:11 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

^^
Nope. Queen laid the egg. Graphics to the A3 Blu ray menu back me up on this. It's canon.
Old 04-02-15, 03:14 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

I think it was said the comic adaption had the embryo move to Ripley but Newt was the facehugger's vicitm and the other embryo moved to the dog. Yeah... that seems dumb. I think the simple explnation is that there were two eggs, two facehuggers and the facehugger didn't get to Newt.
Old 04-02-15, 03:20 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

"It is impossible for me to harm or by omission of action, allow to be harmed, a human being." - Bishop
And he's a machine that can be re-programmed or have hidden directives.
Old 04-02-15, 03:22 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by PatD
If you watch the menu graphics to the Alien 3 Blu ray it spells out the official story of what happened. The queen had one last egg that she had inside her--the queen facehugger that can infect two organisms--and it was laid before it stabbed Bishop and went toe-to-toe with Ripley in the powerloader.

I don't see why that's such a massive stretch of the imagination. (I mean it's no more a stretch than the rest of what goes on in these movies)

(And I'm glad someone pointed out the sound of the egg opening at the very end of Aliens. CANON.)
I'll look at the menu, because I have no memory of that.
Old 04-02-15, 03:50 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
I'll look at the menu, because I have no memory of that.
Just to be clear: it's in the Blu ray menu. Let the animated menu play out. Just keep watching it all the way through. It's in the smaller graphic that plays out with footage from Aliens and Alien 3 threaded together. It seems pretty logical to me. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Last edited by PatD; 04-02-15 at 03:55 PM.
Old 04-02-15, 04:48 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Just saw the animatic and that's pretty neat. Yeah, i'll go with that. I also noticed in the assembly cut the giant facehugger one of the guys that hangs the buffalo asks about. Thing is huge. I'm sure that's the one that they initially shot for the opening. I don't remember if there's one next to the dog, though. Still, keen eyes there PAT!
Old 04-02-15, 05:07 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Also decided to watch the Alien 3 Wreckage documentary. Excellent.
Old 04-02-15, 09:43 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

The sound of the egg opening at the end is in both cuts of Aliens?
Old 04-02-15, 09:57 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by PatD
^^
Nope. Queen laid the egg. Graphics to the A3 Blu ray menu back me up on this. It's canon.
The problem with that is that it's "canon" out the visual of the films. It doesn't really count. It's like saying the prequel comics to movies that have them really count. It doesn't work like that exactly.
Old 04-03-15, 10:34 AM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

I always liked the original Alien 3 design from Giger:





Old 04-03-15, 04:58 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

The face with the human lips looks creepier, but how much different is it from the actual design shown in the film? The only other difference I notice is that the arms look slightly more elongated.

Never mind.

I see the contrast now.
Old 04-03-15, 05:33 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

This is from Roger Ebert's website regarding the positive aspects of Alien 3:

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/76672771" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Unloved - Alien³ from Scout Tafoya on Vimeo.



And this one amps it up with a ballsy argument that Alien 3 is the best of the series (no joke):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rHbBvuo4Yak" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

They're both worth a look if you have the time or inclination.

Last edited by PatD; 04-03-15 at 05:40 PM.
Old 04-03-15, 05:57 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

No. Alien 3 has a lot going for it but it's nowhere near the best of the three. The first Alien film had the completely new and different at the time design work of HG Giger. The film really lived up to its title due to his work.

Does Aliens Special Edition count? If it does I would say that the relationship between Newt and Ripley, and Ripley's back story is more meaningful than anything in Alien 3. And again, the design work is better here than in Alien 3. It also expands on the world, making it seem bigger than what we saw in the first film.
Old 04-03-15, 06:01 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

^ Thanks. Those were interesting. I've always felt it the second best, but still prefer the original.
Old 04-04-15, 02:28 AM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Thanks, PatD, those were amazing. They say everything that I've been saying in defense of the film ever since I first saw it in the theater.
Old 04-04-15, 03:18 AM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

I love this quote from the comments after the first video. "Once Newt and Hicks were dead, it was all lost to me."

I absorb his misery... with a glad heart. There aren't any promises. Nothing's certain.
Old 04-04-15, 10:48 AM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by PatD
And this one amps it up with a ballsy argument that Alien 3 is the best of the series (no joke):
My problem with this "Alien 3 - Movie Defense Force" video is he just bluntly claims stuff is true but doesn't provide much to back up the claim. IMO, everything he claims is actually more true about "Alien" than "Alien 3":

"Strongest visual punch and most stylishness" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

"Intensely memorable imagery" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

"Best writing in the 'Alien' series" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

"Best development of characters" (Seriously, what the hell? "Alien 3" has the worst character development of these 3 movies. Not counting Ripley, it developed only 2 of its characters and did a piss poor job with everyone else. The ending was the alien running around trying to kill the guy from Roc and a bunch of shaved-head guys that no one could tell apart.)

"The idea of the aliens taking on physical properties of the host" (sorry, but that idea started with the original "Alien" to explain why it looked humanoid and was already accepted before "Alien 3" played it out slightly differently.)

"The bravest film of the lot" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

That video was a terrible argument because I think all these are better seen in "Alien" than in "Alien 3"

Last edited by dhmac; 04-04-15 at 11:02 AM.
Old 04-04-15, 11:27 AM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by dhmac
My problem with this "Alien 3 - Movie Defense Force" video is he just bluntly claims stuff is true but doesn't provide much to back up the claim. IMO, everything he claims is actually more true about "Alien" than "Alien 3":

"Strongest visual punch and most stylishness" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

"Intensely memorable imagery" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

"Best writing in the 'Alien' series" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

"Best development of characters" (Seriously, what the hell? "Alien 3" has the worst character development of these 3 movies. Not counting Ripley, it developed only 2 of its characters and did a piss poor job with everyone else. The ending was the alien running around trying to kill the guy from Roc and a bunch of shaved-head guys that no one could tell apart.)

"The idea of the aliens taking on physical properties of the host" (sorry, but that idea started with the original "Alien" to explain why it looked humanoid and was already accepted before "Alien 3" played it out slightly differently.)

"The bravest film of the lot" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")

That video was a terrible argument because I think all these are better seen in "Alien" than in "Alien 3"
How is "Alien" braver than "Alien 3"?

Best writing: "Alien"? (As Bret would say, "Right".)

The characters are better developed in "Alien"? How so. (How much did we learn about Dallas, Parker, Bret, ect?) If you wanted to make the case for "AlienS" having better character development, I could buy that.)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think "Alien", "Aliens" and "Alien 3" are all fine works of art that stand proud and apart from what Hollywood generally churns out.

Last edited by PatD; 04-04-15 at 11:42 AM.
Old 04-04-15, 12:29 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Alien Franchise: Ranking the Movies in Order of Quality

http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/alien...der-of-quality

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Prometheus
Alien Resurrection
AvP
AvP : Requiem
Old 04-04-15, 04:08 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by dhmac
"Strongest visual punch and most stylishness" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")
Yup. Giger's alien ship, pilot, and sub-species wins over grimy prison and streamlined xenomorph.

"Best writing in the 'Alien' series" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")
I thought the dialogue was better in Alien than Alien 3. At first it seems like just a slasher film in space featuring "space truckers," but I feel like everyone in that first film seemed like real people, people we may have known in our own lives. There were no good guys or bad guys, no stereotypes like in Prometheus.

"The bravest film of the lot" ("Alien" > "Alien 3")
Alien 3 is definitely the bravest in terms of production and execution, as well as what the character of the film has to face.

Instead of upping the ante, they chose to make a film with only one alien, and killing off the surviving supporting cast from the previous film.
And having the hero of the previous two films end up succumbing to the infection of the xenomorph...that takes guts, commercially speaking. Not a typical Hollywood action hero ending.
Old 04-04-15, 04:40 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Yeah. A3 is much more bolder and ballsy than any of them. I think I'm going to watch the Assembly cut now. The pace in the TC is amazing though. Really moves along fine, flaws or not.
Old 04-04-15, 06:10 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

As much as I really like Alien 3, especially the assembly cut, I would never argue that it's the best of the series in any category. Alien is, in my opinion, a nearly perfect film and is superior to Alien 3 in pretty much every respect.
Old 04-04-15, 06:50 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
I always liked the original Alien 3 design from Giger:





I would love to see this design used in the new movie.
Old 04-04-15, 07:26 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

yeah, that's creepy as fuck.
Old 04-04-15, 07:46 PM
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Re: Alien 3: Theatrical Cut > Assembly Cut (please hear me out)

Originally Posted by kefrank
As much as I really like Alien 3, especially the assembly cut, I would never argue that it's the best of the series in any category. Alien is, in my opinion, a nearly perfect film and is superior to Alien 3 in pretty much every respect.
Alien is a cinematic masterpiece--no argument. Aliens is one of the greatest action films and sequels ever created.

I'm not sure where I put Alien 3 with these two. It's the one that's affected me the most as a viewer. I remember watching it over 18 years ago on VHS. I hated it originally. It was so damned depressing and they killed off all the beloved characters from the previous film! But, there was something about it I just couldn't shake. It wasn't just the style, but there was some real substance there too. I've watched it many times afterward over the years. And I'm still blown away at how RAW it is emotionally and how daring the creative choices that were made. They could have easily had made this a crowd-pleasing follow-up to Aliens with powerloaders and pulse rifles and Ripley being mother to Newt. But, they chose a much more risky venture.

Ripley's' been put in such a harrowing, hopeless situation. There are no weapons. There's no escape pod or airlock to jettison the creature out of this time. And ultimately she find's that she received the fate she had nightmares about in the previous film. Her only allies are criminals. And the company is on its way with shady intentions. This is intense.

Find a Hollywood film where one of the characters is a repentant "murderer and rapist of women" who rescues a woman from being gang raped and ultimately lays down his life for a higher cause. (That scene where Dillon tells Ripley to pour the lead before the xenomorph attacks him is heartbreakingly realized. Ripley cries out in anguish as the last person who she cared for is brutally destroyed before her eyes.)

If Alien 3 was made today without all the making-of drama and a better realized 'bait and chase' sequence, and some of today's special effects, it would have been better received, at least critically. It would be hailed as a superb science fiction drama.

For what it is, it has a lot going to it. There's brilliant acting, well realized characters (Ripley, Clemens, Dillon, Aaron), memorable dialogue, thoughtful religious subtext, Elliot Goldenthal's magnificent score, fantastic cinematography...oh, and the Alien is good too.

If Alien 3 is a botched, troubled movie and Alien Resurrection, AvP 1, AvP 2 and Prometheus are relatively, untroubled products, bring me more the former, thanks!

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