Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
#1476
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
If you can get past the somewhat sensational article title, this writer has a good perspective on the issue:
http://screencrush.com/spider-man-ma...a-controversy/
http://screencrush.com/spider-man-ma...a-controversy/
I believe the problem people have is that when people are casting a role, it appears as though they throw out the comic or actual description and simply hire people who are hot at the moment or who have a connection with either the director, another star or in this case, the studio (aka Disney, the studio that hired her for the Disney Channel TV show).
When casting for a role, you'd think they pull out a few examples of the comic character and say, in this case for MJ, a young female, fair skin, bright red hair with model quality looks, thin and tall. This isn't in and of itself racist, so stop trying to make it that way. It's simply trying to hire an actress to bring to life the most "truest" form of the comic character.
To cast a dark skin, brunette, who's short (though she is very pretty) negates everthing a true casting director should do. When lines lines like this are broken, it opens up stuff saying, hey, you know the "Blob" from X-Men, yeah, well we are casting a guy who weighs just over 110lbs. Or casting someone who's 300lbs to play Wolverine, would you be okay with that? I don't think people are not liking HER because of her race, as much as it is they just don't like her for this role as she doesn't visually fit the legacy of MJ. Comic fans are passionate people, especially people who grew up and identify with decades of material. Using examples of how MJ talks is irrevelant, talking slang (i.e. dad, daddio, cat, tiger, square etc.) is much like fashion, it changes over time. But what hasn't is MJ's visual. She is, who she is.
That all being said, I'm not saying she can't play the role, for me, as long as they give her red hair, I'm fine with it.
When casting for a role, you'd think they pull out a few examples of the comic character and say, in this case for MJ, a young female, fair skin, bright red hair with model quality looks, thin and tall. This isn't in and of itself racist, so stop trying to make it that way. It's simply trying to hire an actress to bring to life the most "truest" form of the comic character.
To cast a dark skin, brunette, who's short (though she is very pretty) negates everthing a true casting director should do. When lines lines like this are broken, it opens up stuff saying, hey, you know the "Blob" from X-Men, yeah, well we are casting a guy who weighs just over 110lbs. Or casting someone who's 300lbs to play Wolverine, would you be okay with that? I don't think people are not liking HER because of her race, as much as it is they just don't like her for this role as she doesn't visually fit the legacy of MJ. Comic fans are passionate people, especially people who grew up and identify with decades of material. Using examples of how MJ talks is irrevelant, talking slang (i.e. dad, daddio, cat, tiger, square etc.) is much like fashion, it changes over time. But what hasn't is MJ's visual. She is, who she is.
That all being said, I'm not saying she can't play the role, for me, as long as they give her red hair, I'm fine with it.
#1477
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Your requirements are going to make for a very limited pool of kids in Peter's school. Peter's a brown-haired male, can't have any more, that might create confusion. Only one red-headed male, otherwise people wouldn't know which one is Flash Thompson. Only one red-headed girl, that's MJ. Uh-oh, Liz Allan and Gwen Stacy are both blondes. Ah, though, Liz has wavy hair, so they must hire a wavy-haired blonde to be Liz. I think this means that Peter's going to have a LOT of jet-haired female classmates, then, eh?
#1478
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
What if she's not up to it? What if she doesn't kick ass in the role? What if she's just another pretty face who is mediocre with the acting?
Then the movie is brought down a peg.
They're setting her up for failure, not success. If she does great, it's a great character that she nailed. If she's mediocre or worse then she ruins the scenes she's in - and she doesn't look like the character she's playing.
There's more potential downside than upside to this change.
#1479
Senior Member
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
If you can get past the somewhat sensational article title, this writer has a good perspective on the issue:
http://screencrush.com/spider-man-ma...a-controversy/
http://screencrush.com/spider-man-ma...a-controversy/
Simply dismissing Zendaya’s qualifications to play this role because of her skin color is the literal definition of racism.
#1480
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Is it wrong to WANT it? No, but I think you're limiting yourself when you start off with a point of view that you absolutely will not accept it if they don't look exactly like they do in the comics. That's not wrong, but it is kind of sad.
#1481
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Your requirements are going to make for a very limited pool of kids in Peter's school. Peter's a brown-haired male, can't have any more, that might create confusion. Only one red-headed male, otherwise people wouldn't know which one is Flash Thompson. Only one red-headed girl, that's MJ. Uh-oh, Liz Allan and Gwen Stacy are both blondes. Ah, though, Liz has wavy hair, so they must hire a wavy-haired blonde to be Liz. I think this means that Peter's going to have a LOT of jet-haired female classmates, then, eh?
MJ isn't just another supporting character. She's Peter's future wife.
Liz Allen or Betty Brant they can change because those characters weren't as important in the comics. They could change ethnicities of those characters and make them more important to the story in the movie and it would work beautifully.
But changing an iconic character with such a strong visual image as MJ? That's just stupid.
#1482
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
That's putting an awful lot of pressure on such a young girl.
What if she's not up to it? What if she doesn't kick ass in the role? What if she's just another pretty face who is mediocre with the acting?
Then the movie is brought down a peg.
They're setting her up for failure, not success. If she does great, it's a great character that she nailed. If she's mediocre or worse then she ruins the scenes she's in - and she doesn't look like the character she's playing.
There's more potential downside than upside to this change.
What if she's not up to it? What if she doesn't kick ass in the role? What if she's just another pretty face who is mediocre with the acting?
Then the movie is brought down a peg.
They're setting her up for failure, not success. If she does great, it's a great character that she nailed. If she's mediocre or worse then she ruins the scenes she's in - and she doesn't look like the character she's playing.
There's more potential downside than upside to this change.
#1483
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Why would I be happy about having those things that I love changed?
It's just like when my car was in the shop being fixed and I drove a nice rental car. It was better than my car in some ways, worse in others - but I missed my car. I wanted my car back asap.
I want the characters I've known and loved and have nostalgic feelings about to remain who they are, both visually and in terms of personality. If I want new characters there are hundreds of movies every year with new characters. If I go see Spider-Man I want the characters I became attached to 40 years ago.
That's sad?
#1484
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Zenyatta's got to knock it out of the park otherwise it will look like a bad casting decision. An OK performance just points out that they could have kept the iconic image and it would have felt more like the comic book come to life, which would have been better.
It's basically like the old Home Run Derby TV show - it's a home run or an out.
#1485
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Really? I read comics from 1974 to 1996. I love those characters and have a strong connection to them (both in terms of nostalgia, and in terms of how much I loved the characters and their images).
Why would I be happy about having those things that I love changed?
It's just like when my car was in the shop being fixed and I drove a nice rental car. It was better than my car in some ways, worse in others - but I missed my car. I wanted my car back asap.
I want the characters I've known and loved and have nostalgic feelings about to remain who they are, both visually and in terms of personality. If I want new characters there are hundreds of movies every year with new characters. If I go see Spider-Man I want the characters I became attached to 40 years ago.
That's sad?
Why would I be happy about having those things that I love changed?
It's just like when my car was in the shop being fixed and I drove a nice rental car. It was better than my car in some ways, worse in others - but I missed my car. I wanted my car back asap.
I want the characters I've known and loved and have nostalgic feelings about to remain who they are, both visually and in terms of personality. If I want new characters there are hundreds of movies every year with new characters. If I go see Spider-Man I want the characters I became attached to 40 years ago.
That's sad?
#1486
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
I've read comics from 1972 to the present. I have nostalgic feelings towards the comics, but I'm also excited to see how a different medium interprets the characters. I may like it, I may not, but I've got those old comics I loved and, if I want to see the characters exactly the way they were in those old comics, I'll read those old comics. You have a different view and you're entitled to it, but that doesn't make my viewpoint any wronger or righter than yours, just different. But I feel sad that you're denying yourself the possibility of seeing some potentially really good films and portrayals because you've enslaved yourself to a particular visual representation in a different medium.
But if Zenyatta doesn't hit it out of the park it is going to hurt the movie (not having an identifiable Mary Jane). Like I said above, it's either going to be a home run or an out with her performance since she doesn't look the part.
Tom Cruise hit a home run with Jack Reacher. I don't think anyone could have done better.
Will the same be true of Zenyatta? I doubt it. Tom Cruise, for all his personal issues, is a very, VERY good actor with decades of experience and gravitas. Zenyatta's new and inexperienced and will have to pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep her casting from being a detriment to the movie.
#1487
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Just like with Jack Reacher, I'll go see this movie. I love Spider-Man. He's always been my favorite Superhero.
But if Zenyatta doesn't hit it out of the park it is going to hurt the movie (not having an identifiable Mary Jane). Like I said above, it's either going to be a home run or an out with her performance since she doesn't look the part.
Tom Cruise hit a home run with Jack Reacher. I don't think anyone could have done better.
Will the same be true of Zenyatta? I doubt it. Tom Cruise, for all his personal issues, is a very, VERY good actor with decades of experience and gravitas. Zenyatta's new and inexperienced and will have to pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep her casting from being a detriment to the movie.
But if Zenyatta doesn't hit it out of the park it is going to hurt the movie (not having an identifiable Mary Jane). Like I said above, it's either going to be a home run or an out with her performance since she doesn't look the part.
Tom Cruise hit a home run with Jack Reacher. I don't think anyone could have done better.
Will the same be true of Zenyatta? I doubt it. Tom Cruise, for all his personal issues, is a very, VERY good actor with decades of experience and gravitas. Zenyatta's new and inexperienced and will have to pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep her casting from being a detriment to the movie.
#1488
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Micheal Keaton TOTALLY looked the part.
It was his image as a wacky comedy actor that people had a problem with. Very few people thought he could pull off a serious role like that (since it wasn't billed as the campy Batman of the 60's TV series).
But visually he was as good as anyone who ever played Bruce Wayne.
And he had a decade of Hollywood experience before taking on that role. Zenyatta's got, what? 3 months of experience on a kids' show?
She's being set up to fail. Unless she is amazingly talented beyond her years and experience she's more likely to fail than succeed since she doesn't look like the character she's playing. She's got to embody the ultra-confident, ultra-cool Mary Jane from the comics. Not an easy task for such a young, inexperienced actress.
#1489
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Yeah Keaton seemed like a terrible choice, and I thought a young Val Kilmer was a perfect choice, so what do I know? Even without his comedy background, Keaton was just not how I envisioned Bruce Wayne, nor did he even look remotely like any comic I rememberedm, while I thought, for instance, Bale was perfect.
The real question is, are you really going to NOT see this movie because of this, B5Erik?
The real question is, are you really going to NOT see this movie because of this, B5Erik?
#1491
DVD Talk Hero
#1496
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
#1497
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
But his face matches the image in the comics. And expecting to find someone who is 5'4" to have the gravitas to play Wolverine isn't very realistic.
Jackman pulled it off because of his outstanding acting skills. Zenyatta has virtually no experience outside of kids' stuff and likely nowhere near that level of acting skill. So how's she going to pull this off?
She's going to have to give an amazing performance to become Mary Jane Watson. I don't believe she's got the acting chops to pull that off. Almost everything that she has been in has been kids stuff, which leads to poor acting. I think she's going to be a typical post teen actor playing a teenager - not very good.
This was a corportate decision to market one of their actors/actresses. It may very well turn out to be a bad decision.
#1498
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
Where was all the evidence of these outstanding acting skills before he got the gig though? Outside of Australian TV, he was a total unknown.
#1499
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Spider-Man: Homecoming (MCU reboot) (7/7/2017 - D: Jon Watts) S: Tom Holland
And he had a lot more acting experience (and in non kiddie shows) than Zenyatta does.
And since he wasn't tied to anything Fox was promoting he wasn't given the role to increase his marketability in something else.
Are you really trying to say that Zenyatta is on Jackman's level when it comes to acting??