Groucho

The great thing about being kind is that it costs you nothing.

Decker

New topless pictures after surgery :

milo bloom

Good on him, already got some abs.

Count Dooku

milo bloom

I kinda wonder how much jokes like this have contributed to the difficulty in accepting trans people. For so long cross-dressing was just a joke, so people see transgender people as just being silly. We've been rewatching some M*A*S*H lately and I wonder how Klinger dressing as a woman trying to get a psychiatric discharge affected people's thinking?

Personally, seeing that kind of representation helped me accept the idea of transgender people. They complained about Klinger, but only because he was being a pain in the butt. But he did his job and the only person that really had an issue with him was Frank Burns, who was a certifiable asshat so that kinda proved the point.

Paff

^ While it's good that YOU have a good acceptance and tolerance of trans people partially due to Jamie Farr's Cpl Klinger, I've held that it has had a mostly negative effect. In that people think MTF trans people are like Klinger; clearly cis male but just wearing a dress, and that's while they get all up in arms about stupid shit like which restrooms people use. Yet I guarantee, absolutely guarantee, that if it was like a beach or public swimming pool and a shirtless Elliot Page came into the women's room (like they think should happen) they'd all freak out about a "man in the ladies room".

Decker

Absolutely. People just need to accept that sometimes a person's gender isn't just a chromosomal thing. Who could possibly have an issue with Elliot identifying as a man now?

And honestly I never ever understood the "restroom" issue in the first place. Let people go pee wherever they want (as long as it's like actually a toilet). What is the issue with having a trans man using the men's restroom? Is it any "worse" than a cis gay man using the same restroom? Of course not.

Jack Straw

How about referring to Elliot as "none of the above"?

Count Dooku

The premise of the bathroom debate is that if you say a person who was born with male genitalia but who identifies as female can use the ladies' restroom, then you are opening the door to heterosexual men situation-ally claiming to be transgender so they can into the ladies' restroom. The ultimate question being: Do you want some perverted man having an excuse to go into the same restroom as little girls? Although I would contend that if a pervert wanted to go into the ladies' restroom badly enough, he's just gonna go.

Count Dooku

How Klinger was portrayed on MASH was a complicated thing because what he represented changed as the series ran.

Kurt D

yeah, it's amazing none of those perverts ever thought to just dress in drag, but rather patiently waited until transgender issues gained traction

GoldenJCJ

This is the argument that has been thrown around since this issue became hot but I’m curious, how many documented cases of a perverted man, under the guise of trans rights, have there been?

My guess is, not many. Especially compared to say, regular skeazy dudes sexually assaulting females in public restrooms.

Hazel Motes

And perverted men who have wanted to, and have been able to, go into the same bathroom as little BOYS since the inception of public washrooms? What about them?

Artman

Definitely not something I needed to see, but my remaining interest in this is how it will play out in the Umbrella Academy. He/she was always kind of a tomboy so I don't expect too much of a difference as far as the show goes.

Count Dooku

It's as widespread as voter fraud.

Deftones

he

majorjoe23

Clearly we need a perverts-only bathroom option.

Count Dooku

I thought that's what all the restrooms at public parks and rest stops were, at least in practice.

milo bloom

Comment of the year right there.


And a lot of the bathroom issues could be fixed very easily. How many times have you ever visited a place, like a small restaurant and it had two bathrooms, labeled for men and women, but each was a single occupancy bathroom? Why? Just label each one "restroom" and you immediately help with the issue of lines forming outside of the women's bathroom.

Nick Danger

Lindsey Ellis made a YouTube video called Tracing the Roots of Pop Culture Transphobia.

I was genuinely disturbed at the ten minute segment starting at 26:45 Two Decades of Puking.

IBJoel

I've been going through old MST3K episodes and there's a fair bit of transphobia in a few episodes. Any woman that has any muscle definition is joked about being trans. I had to turn off one episode, since that "joke" got brought up every time the dancer was on screen.

milo bloom

Yeah, I've watched some of the ones on YouTube where the new crew and Joel will re-watch older episodes and every time a joke like that or just an old fashioned sexist joke came up, more often than not you'd hear a "errrm" from one of the new people, clearly uncomfortable.

I still don't think the old show was ever meant to be truly hateful but the way they were doing so many jokes for an entire movie, they would just end up putting every kind of comment in and not always think about how they would age.

Dan

That's the, in my opinion, great thing about comedy in general. Some jokes age wonderfully, and some jokes fall completely flat 1, or 5, or 10, or 30 years later. In the case of those MST3K jokes, it's the latter, and that's ok, and they have made 100x more jokes that still hold up. I like what Seth Rogen said about that recently, too. There's no need for comedians to get defensive about their old jokes that don't play as well anymore. There's still plenty of room for irreverent humor instead of lazy punchlines.

IBJoel

Oh no, I absolutely think it was just "Oh that's weird, funny stuff" in their minds. They couldn't see the future and know that discussion, prejudice, and acceptance of non-traditional gender norms was going to be a major issue, 20-30 years from then.

GoldenJCJ

Jesus, they’re now making commentaries for the commentaries they originally made on those old movies?!

I guess I haven’t kept up with the MST3K crowd.