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The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

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The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

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Old 07-25-12, 09:47 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

I think with TDKR, the problems with the plot are so deeply tied to emotional scenes that they are much more glaring than, 'hey the actor has a different shirt on in this scene'...

The unarmed cops running to fight close quarters with billy clubs against machine guns is an emotional scene so it underscores the feeling: 'hey this is stupid, where did the guns go? why can't they drive a car up the street first to break up the bad guys? Hijack a pickup with a 50cal machine gun like Gordan and 3 guys did'

That is what takes you out of the movie and why. Same with the whole existence of the Pit and how it's set up.
Old 07-25-12, 10:47 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RichC2
Kind of like in Memento, if Leonard Shelby can't create new memories, how does he remember that he can't create new memories.
Not to derail this thread, but that's all spelled out in Memento. Leonard knows everything about his condition because Sammy Jankis had the same condition. Anterograde amnesia impairs declarative memory, but not procedural memory (at least not to the same degree). Leonard procedurally sees his "Remember Sammy Jankis" tattoo and is aware of his condition.
Old 07-25-12, 10:55 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by kefrank
Not to derail this thread, but that's all spelled out in Memento. Leonard knows everything about his condition because Sammy Jankis had the same condition. Anterograde amnesia impairs declarative memory, but not procedural memory (at least not to the same degree). Leonard procedurally sees his "Remember Sammy Jankis" tattoo and is aware of his condition.
Yeah I remember that detail, it was a common complaint around the time of release no less and I stopped fighting it ages ago
Old 07-25-12, 10:57 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Didn't Bane figure out Wayne's identity just by looking at video footage? I never read the comic, but I read the novelization of Knightfall twice and just finished my 2nd readthrough last night. He narrowed it down to a bunch of rich dudes in the area, but then got footage of all of them and as soon as he saw Bruce knew it was him.

Finally, Bruce Wayne: tall, handsome, but vacuous. Shambling walk, slouching posture, empty grin.

"Him," said Bane. "The manner is a mask. Beneath it is steel."

I dont see that as much different than what Blake did.
Old 07-25-12, 11:12 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RichC2
Yeah I remember that detail, it was a common complaint around the time of release no less and I stopped fighting it ages ago
In fairness, that detail gets muddied when Teddy tells Leonard that Sammy was just a con man and the scenario Leonard ascribes to Sammy and his wife is actually what happened to Leonard. If that's to be believed (and I think the movie leaves it open), it raises a lot of questions about the very nature of memory. Even though Leonard can't create "new" memories, can his mind alter the past memories that he does have based on current experiences? There was a really fascinating article related to that kind of question in a recent issue of Wired that detailed how our memories are stored and played back in the brain. But now I'm veering even further off topic...

Last edited by kefrank; 07-25-12 at 11:39 AM. Reason: grammar
Old 07-25-12, 11:37 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

By the way, I saw the movie again last night, and to answer all the whinging questions asking "How Bruce got home from India,"; I had a suspicion, but seeing it again confirmed it.

He got home using "The Bat", via it's fixed autopilot. When he comes back Lucius asks him do you remember where you parked it and then you see it on a rooftop next, it has an Arab/Indian terrain camo cover. Which is obviously meant to imply that he used it to fly back from the other side of the world.
Old 07-25-12, 11:44 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dragon Tattoo
He got home using "The Bat", via it's fixed autopilot. When he comes back Lucius asks him do you remember where you parked it and then you see it on a rooftop next, it has an Arab/Indian terrain camo cover. Which is obviously meant to imply that he used it to fly back from the other side of the world.
So you're saying he had some way to transmit an autopilot route to the Bat which was sitting across the world in Gotham City to get it to come pick him up? I liked the movie almost as much as you did, but this doesn't compute.
Old 07-25-12, 11:46 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

but the city was being patrolled by fighter planes to keep people from flying out or in. Adding to the problems of Bane and his friends leaving on a charter plane.
Old 07-25-12, 11:49 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by kefrank
So you're saying he had some way to transmit an autopilot route to the Bat which was sitting across the world in Gotham City to get it to come pick him up? I liked the movie almost as much as you did, but this doesn't compute.
Not to mention the fact that for this "logic" to work, Fox would also have to have known that the autopilot was working, based on the "remember where you parked?" line, which completely invalidates the scene later when it is revealed to him that it was fixed months ago by Wayne.
Old 07-25-12, 11:49 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by kefrank
So you're saying he had some way to transmit an autopilot route to the Bat which was sitting across the world in Gotham City to get it to come pick him up?
Um, Yes. What exactly is so unrealistic about this? He could clearly operate it from afar? Why exactly could he not give it a general location to land in once he knew where he was?
Old 07-25-12, 11:52 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RoboDad
Not to mention the fact that for this "logic" to work, Fox would also have to have known that the autopilot was working, based on the "remember where you parked?" line, which completely invalidates the scene later when it is revealed to him that it was fixed months ago by Wayne.
Wait, what? What does this have to do with anything?

Are you actually comprehending what I posted? Lucius asking him if he remembered where he parked does not mean that Lucius knows that the autopilot was working.
Old 07-25-12, 11:52 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

He found and put together the Mark I and flew back. Duh.
Old 07-25-12, 11:58 AM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dragon Tattoo
Um, Yes. What exactly is so unrealistic about this? He could clearly operate it from afar? Why exactly could he not give it a general location to land in once he knew where he was?
Well, for starters, the Bat was clearly not an aircraft designed for intercontinental flight, at least not without an accompanying tanker. Sure, Nolan has crossed the realism line a bit with the other Bat-vehicles, but not to that extreme.

Quite frankly, I don't think any implied explanation for how Bruce got back to Gotham is necessary. By this point in the trilogy he's been shown be an incredibly resourceful, cunning, and stealthy individual who could figure out how to get back and get into the locked-down city just fine.
Old 07-25-12, 12:05 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

He definitely DID NOT USE THE BAT TO GET HOME. Lucius asks him if he remembers where he parked it....FIVE MONTHS AGO, before he was beaten to a pulp. It has that camo on it to keep it hidden from prying eyes. There is no explanation in the film itself as to how he got back, but it doesn't matter anyhow - but without a doubt, he didn't use The Bat. (and it's not like he had a transmitter on him to give The Bat his location). I've seen this movie three times and this idea is ridiculous.
Old 07-25-12, 12:08 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by mdc3000
He definitely DID NOT USE THE BAT TO GET HOME. Lucius asks him if he remembers where he parked it....FIVE MONTHS AGO
I must've missed that final part of Lucius' line.

Originally Posted by mdc3000
(and it's not like he had a transmitter on him to give The Bat his location).
So when in the movie was this explained. You seem to have seen a different cut than I did.
Old 07-25-12, 12:22 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dragon Tattoo
By the way, I saw the movie again last night, and to answer all the whinging questions asking "How Bruce got home from India,"; I had a suspicion, but seeing it again confirmed it.

He got home using "The Bat", via it's fixed autopilot. When he comes back Lucius asks him do you remember where you parked it and then you see it on a rooftop next, it has an Arab/Indian terrain camo cover. Which is obviously meant to imply that he used it to fly back from the other side of the world.
Old 07-25-12, 12:23 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by T-bone22
It really is laughable how many people missed it, I agree.
Old 07-25-12, 12:32 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

I'm sorry but Wayne having the Bat go to him all that way is way beyond the level of disbelief.
Old 07-25-12, 12:37 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Save Ferris
I think with TDKR, the problems with the plot are so deeply tied to emotional scenes that they are much more glaring than, 'hey the actor has a different shirt on in this scene'...

The unarmed cops running to fight close quarters with billy clubs against machine guns is an emotional scene so it underscores the feeling: 'hey this is stupid, where did the guns go? why can't they drive a car up the street first to break up the bad guys? Hijack a pickup with a 50cal machine gun like Gordan and 3 guys did'

That is what takes you out of the movie and why. Same with the whole existence of the Pit and how it's set up.
I agree. Typically, anytime a movie takes you out of the moment it's a bad thing.

The scene with the cops running at the gun wielding bad guys took me out of the movie, because it is just silly to be running towards men with machine guns.

And you're right, it was all just a set up to add emotion to the scene. Just like the quick shot of Batman in the plane flying over the bay with the nuke. Logically, it didn't make sense for Batman to be there. He would have hit the eject button and put the plane on auto-pilot already.

Still though, for a director that has a tough time creating emotion, I thought Nolan did a pretty admirable job with it here. I wasn't crying when we thought Batman died but I was very happy when it was revealed that Bruce Wayne was able to get out of Gotham alive and well.

And it was pointed out in a blurb I read, but did anyone notice that the speech Alfred gave Bruce was the same idea as the speech Affleck gave Damon in Good Will Hunting?
Old 07-25-12, 12:43 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Goat3001
I agree. Typically, anytime a movie takes you out of the moment it's a bad thing.

The scene with the cops running at the gun wielding bad guys took me out of the movie, because it is just silly to be running towards men with machine guns.

And you're right, it was all just a set up to add emotion to the scene. Just like the quick shot of Batman in the plane flying over the bay with the nuke. Logically, it didn't make sense for Batman to be there. He would have hit the eject button and put the plane on auto-pilot already.
Everybody has to remember that these are still superhero movies. It's about a guy that dresses up as a bat and fights mystic villians and those that wear scarecrow masks and a guy that dresses up as a clown, but doesn't get laughed, etc, etc. Nothing in these superhero movies are realistic. Nolan's Batman films might be MORE realistic than other superhero movies, but they're not meant to be hyper realistic like say Saving Private Ryan's opening scene or something like that. They're just fun movies about guys that dress up in costumes.
Old 07-25-12, 12:48 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dragon Tattoo
It really is laughable how many people missed it, I agree.
But you missed Lucius' line asking if he remembered where he parked. I guess missing things in this movie is pretty common. Did of us fucking watch this movie?
Old 07-25-12, 01:03 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dragon Tattoo
It really is laughable how many people missed it, I agree.
You're making a major leap that the style of camouflage shown over the Bat in that shot is supposed to indicate that the Bat was used to help Batman get back to Gotham City. When I saw that in the movie, I just assumed he used a camo cover that blended well with the top of the building to keep the Bat from being obvious. That's far more plausible than your suggestion.
Old 07-25-12, 01:07 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by whoopdido
Everybody has to remember that these are still superhero movies. It's about a guy that dresses up as a bat and fights mystic villians and those that wear scarecrow masks and a guy that dresses up as a clown, but doesn't get laughed, etc, etc. Nothing in these superhero movies are realistic. Nolan's Batman films might be MORE realistic than other superhero movies, but they're not meant to be hyper realistic like say Saving Private Ryan's opening scene or something like that. They're just fun movies about guys that dress up in costumes.
Yeah I get that, but that's not exactly how it works. Every movie creates a world and it has to follow the rules of that world. If Batman started flying and lifting trains with one hand, it would be fair to criticize that even though it's just a super hero movie because it breaks the rules of the world it created.

I feel that cops running towards machine gun fire breaks a rule of Nolan's Batman world. The cops in these movies have never been that reckless.

I also feel that the quick shot of Batman in the plane broke the rule because well, it just didn't make sense for him to be there. I know Nolan was trying to make us believe that Batman actually blew up. If he just showed the plane flying over the bay with no shot of Batman inside, it would have been too obvious that Bruce wasn't in there. So I get what he was trying to do, just chose a poor way to do it.

With that said, I don't think him finding a way to go from India to Gotham was a big deal. We know Bruce to be a savvy guy with plenty of connections. I didn't need to see how he got back.
Old 07-25-12, 01:10 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Chris Nolan's Final Letter To Batman

Spoiler:
"Alfred. Gordon. Lucius. Bruce... Wayne. Names that have come to mean so much to me. Today, I'm three weeks from saying a final good-bye to these characters and their world. It's my son's ninth birthday. He was born as the Tumbler was being glued together in my garage from random parts of model kits. Much time, many changes. A shift from sets where some gunplay or a helicopter were extraordinary events to working days where crowds of extras, building demolitions, or mayhem thousands of feet in the air have become familiar.

People ask if we'd always planned a trilogy. This is like being asked whether you had planned on growing up, getting married, having kids. The answer is complicated. When David and I first started cracking open Bruce's story, we flirted with what might come after, then backed away, not wanting to look too deep into the future. I didn't want to know everything that Bruce couldn't; I wanted to live it with him. I told David and Jonah to put everything they knew into each film as we made it. The entire cast and crew put all they had into the first film. Nothing held back. Nothing saved for next time. They built an entire city. Then Christian and Michael and Gary and Morgan and Liam and Cillian started living in it. Christian bit off a big chunk of Bruce Wayne's life and made it utterly compelling. He took us into a pop icon's mind and never let us notice for an instant the fanciful nature of Bruce's methods.

I never thought we'd do a second — how many good sequels are there? Why roll those dice? But once I knew where it would take Bruce, and when I started to see glimpses of the antagonist, it became essential. We re-assembled the team and went back to Gotham. It had changed in three years. Bigger. More real. More modern. And a new force of chaos was coming to the fore. The ultimate scary clown, as brought to terrifying life by Heath. We'd held nothing back, but there were things we hadn't been able to do the first time out — a Batsuit with a flexible neck, shooting on Imax. And things we'd chickened out on — destroying the Batmobile, burning up the villain's blood money to show a complete disregard for conventional motivation. We took the supposed security of a sequel as license to throw caution to the wind and headed for the darkest corners of Gotham.

I never thought we'd do a third — are there any great second sequels? But I kept wondering about the end of Bruce's journey, and once David and I discovered it, I had to see it for myself. We had come back to what we had barely dared whisper about in those first days in my garage. We had been making a trilogy. I called everyone back together for another tour of Gotham. Four years later, it was still there. It even seemed a little cleaner, a little more polished. Wayne Manor had been rebuilt. Familiar faces were back — a little older, a little wiser... but not all was as it seemed.

Gotham was rotting away at its foundations. A new evil bubbling up from beneath. Bruce had thought Batman was not needed anymore, but Bruce was wrong, just as I had been wrong. The Batman had to come back. I suppose he always will.

Michael, Morgan, Gary, Cillian, Liam, Heath, Christian... Bale. Names that have come to mean so much to me. My time in Gotham, looking after one of the greatest and most enduring figures in pop culture, has been the most challenging and rewarding experience a filmmaker could hope for. I will miss the Batman. I like to think that he'll miss me, but he's never been particularly sentimental."
Old 07-25-12, 01:10 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (Nolan, 2012) — The Reviews Thread

Who says he was on the other side of the world? You people have obviously never been to Schenectady...


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