chess

I watched the trilogy out of order this weekend, starting with TDKR on Friday, BB on Saturday and TDK on Sunday. I didn't plan it that way, but I'm glad I did it that way because I think it let me better reflect on the themes that TDKR revisited without having the former films taint my immediate enjoyment of TDKR.

All three are phenomenal films with their own strengths and weaknesses:

Batman Begins: Strong origin story, which introduces themes that endure through the trilogy, but a third act that is easily the weakest of the three films. It is IMO more susceptible to nitpicking than TDKR by quite a stretch, though nobody seems to remember it that way, which I think is partly due to the silliness that it followed (Batman and Robin).

The Dark Knight: Strong film throughout with an absolutely stunning portrayal of the the Joker, both the way he's acted and the way he's written as a complete mystery and force of nature. It is also the most emotionally resonant with the death scene and the choice Batman makes at the end. The film also benefits from having Batman's two strongest villains with one of them having an actual arc. The third act ferry scene is every bit as hokey as anything in TDKR, and virtually everything Joker does is more worthy of nitpicking than anything in TDKR, but nobody seems to remember it that way.

Dark Knight Rises: More like Batman Begins in that it's a more traditional superhero movie, but it also delivers on some of the grittiness and drama of Dark Knight. It also does a fantastic job of weaving the themes and tones from the first two movies. Unfortunately, I didn't really find the escape from the pit, the bus full or orphans, or the cop charge nearly as resonant as I think they were intended to be. However, I thought both Bane and Catwoman were brilliant, and I enjoyed every second they were on screen. I thought the third act was about on par with Batman Begins in terms of writing, and it was the best of the three in terms of action. It had the best ending of the three, and I actually teared up a bit, so it did eventually resonate.

Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and to a slightly lesser extent Gary Olman absolutely anchored the entire trilogy and gave it a level of charm and wit that it would not have otherwise had.

IMO, tied with LOTR for best trilogy of all time.

maxfisher

I'm unclear on what that has to do with the sillinesses of Bane saying he was raised in darkness when the place was flooded from above with sunlight or flying Bruce there to watch a video feed of news on Gotham when he could've just thrown his broken ass into any guarded area with a television.

Why So Blu?

She wasn't that recognizable, obviously. The styling was perfect.

Groucho

My wife recognized her immediately:

Why So Blu?

He's breaking him down. He wasn't going to torture his body, but his "soul." He would give him a glimmer of hope (being able to easily climb out of the hole) before having him crash back down. The same way he would instill hope in Gotham before taking it away.

He talks about this in length.

kefrank

The movie never actually shows Bane's original origin. There is a lot said and/or implied about him growing up in that prison, but that is actually Talia's origin. Bane may very well have grown up in literal darkness (recall, he's already a man in the flashback when he's in the light helping Talia escape) or it may have just been his own brand of theatricality/intimidation. The movie leaves it open.

Bane tells him exactly why - to torture Bruce's soul with a sense of false hope while he watches Gotham be destroyed. Any old lockdown wouldn't accomplish that. I think what you and other viewers are missing is that this was very personal for Bane and Talia - Gotham and it's inhabitants were just pawns in their personal vendetta.

I've seen this complaint multiple times now and I don't get it. The movie doesn't show Blake putting on the cowl and immediately running out to fight crime. You're assuming something that's not shown. It's up to Blake to prepare and decide when to use the resources Bruce has left him.

Why So Blu?

This was also cool:

Draven

I cannot fathom how anyone could say this. I'm having a hard time remembering the action in TDKR. Let's see, we had the plane sequence, two fights where Bane and Batman punched each other until one of them lost, some short Catwoman fights, a quick motorcycle chase, a part where armed police officers ran at armed goons like no one had guns, some Bat flying around stuff and that's pretty much it.

TDK had so many better moments. The entire police van sequence was more memorable than anything in Rises.

Groucho

You're right, but the movie heavily implies that Blake will become Batman. Constant referrals that "anybody can wear the mask", etc. And it's hardly subtle when we see Blake going up on the platform followed by "THE DARK KNIGHT RISES" (reminded me of the rat at the end of The Departed).

fumanstan

I had to look her up, but I don't think she's that recognizable. It isn't like Ramona and Beezus was a big hit, especially to people that are watching Batman.

EDIT: Oh, I guess she was in Battle LA too. I don't know, when I was watching the movie I couldn't tell it was a girl. Heh.


The more I watch the police van sequence the more I dislike it because of the running commentary by the police guy in the van.

Personally for me, the first Bane/Batman fight is very memorable to me. That was my favorite fight in the whole trilogy.

kefrank

I agree, but it does not show when he'll become Batman, what training he'll undergo, or even exactly what resources have been left to him. Making assumptions about how all of that will play out is over-thinking it and missing the point.

TGM

question about TDK: Why didn't they blame Dent's death on The Joker, the guy who was killing everyone throughout the movie?

Why So Blu?

Because Joker was hanging ten on the side of a building while Batman, Gordon, and Dent were the only ones at their respective scene.

kefrank

Because the Joker was already in custody at the time of death for Dent.

maxfisher

Fair enough. Nothing in the movie suggests it, but it doesn't rule it out either, so that's as good an explanation as any. Though, I'm not convinced the writers thought it that far through given some of the other issues.

It was a ridiculous stretch to believe, within the universe Nolan created, that a magic doctor-punch and a couple months of primitive 'rehab' healed Bruce to the point that he could walk, let alone climb out of the well jail. It's even more ridiculous to think Bane planned it that way. Bane's torture of Bruce was supposed to be watching the citizens of the city tear each other apart thinking they can save themselves at the expense of others, while he can do nothing but lay there. This is explicitly explained, and the villains did a piss poor job executing it. It was implied they were going to pit the wealthy against the poor and leave one bridge open with the military guarding it, so that the government would be forced to gun down fleeing citizens. Instead, all that either got cut or never happened. People basically just had to obey the world's strictest curfew while a bunch of criminals distributed food to them, took out their trash, kept the power and water running, etc.

The implication was extremely strong, with Bruce leaving the goodies to Blake and the repaired bat signal as a means to call him. Regardless, by the time Bruce was Blake's age, he'd been training for years, with at least one extremely talented fighter who submitted him to a brutal regimen. Unless Batman starts using guns, I can't see Blake having much of a chance.

chess

TDK was a crime drama, albeit a very good one, punctuated by 3 action scenes (the police van, the finale with Joker and Hong Kong).

TDKR was an action movie throughout, just like Batman Begins.

chess

Bane didn't plan for him to actually escape...just for him to have the false hope of escape.

Each of these did happen on screen albeit in flashes.

I inferred that the repaired Bat Signal was simply a message for Gordon that Bruce was alive...not something to be used right away.

Nickee

Since everyone is posting their favorite nit-picks, here's mine:

The way they tried to fake the doctor's death in the plane crash at the beginning would have never worked. From what I could see, Bane appeared to be forcing some blood from the scientist into some random dead body they brought on board the plane.

In plane crashes, typically bone or teeth are the samples of choice for DNA identification because the rest of the body is so damaged. And even if blood was going be used it is collected directly from the chambers of the heart and the method employed in the movie wouldn’t have gotten it to the heart of a dead body. Also they would have had to replace all of the dead guy’s blood with the other guy’s or the DNA types would just have been an obvious mixture of two people.

This is a very minor nit-pick but I do DNA testing for a living so it annoyed me. But I still loved the movie and hope to see it again this week, this time in IMAX.

Jules Winfield

I get what the movie was trying to do with the symbol. I just think it's funny that Batman took time out of a busy save people schedule to do this. But you've over explained it so it's not funny to me anymore. I now abhor it. ARE YOU HAPPY?!?!(Jules pushes everything off his desk, waves his arms wildly in the air and runs around in a circle.)

Draven

There was also the opening sequence (both the robbery and the parking garage), the fundraiser sequence, and the interrogation/Joker in jail sequence (comparable in length the Catwoman stuff).

Plus, the police van part is so long and involved that it feels like a ton happens there.

Numanoid

Another plot contrivance - in the Bane/Talia prison flashbacks, ALL of the prisons wear head coverings. In the current prison scenes, NONE do. Now either prison fashion has changed for some weird reason, or it was simply so that we wouldn't recognize Tom Hardy as the protector and figure out the plot before the reveal. Kinda weak.

Why So Blu?

And people keep saying there are no memorable lines in TDKR? Enough with the Joker fanboyism. There are tons.




In addition to the others that I've already mentioned.

Why So Blu?

Or the fact that it was 20-25 years prior.

Why So Blu?

DaveyJoe

I thought it was because there was some type of plague going around at the time. The guy telling the story to Bruce explains this.