Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
07-22-11 | 10:52 AM
#1126
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
By the way, I've been wondering about this movie as it relates to the forthcoming DC Comics relaunch, where Superman is getting a pretty thorough reboot. We've all remarked about Diane Lane playing Martha Kent (my favorite remark so far was something to the effect of, "Is it weird that Martha Kent gives me a boner?") and she does seem awfully young for the role. In the new continuity, the Kents are dead by the time Superman goes public. It may be that we'll only see Lane and Costner with young Clark Kent in this movie.
One other plot point they've emphasized is that they'll be focusing much more on Kal-El than Clark Kent, and playing up the fact that Kal-El is an alien. You may recall that in the recent Action Comics #900 there was a controversial story in which Superman renounces his U.S. citizenship, arguing that he doesn't want to be viewed as an agent of any specific nation. That story was written by David S. Goyer, who has written the screenplay (at least, the version in play at the moment). I think it's safe to assume that these are indications of a specific tone we can expect from The Man of Steel, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that it's ultimately a social allegory about the current immigration issues in America, in much the same way that The Dark Knight is a commentary on post-9/11 America.
That thesis, I suspect, will remain regardless of whatever rewrites are taking place.
One other plot point they've emphasized is that they'll be focusing much more on Kal-El than Clark Kent, and playing up the fact that Kal-El is an alien. You may recall that in the recent Action Comics #900 there was a controversial story in which Superman renounces his U.S. citizenship, arguing that he doesn't want to be viewed as an agent of any specific nation. That story was written by David S. Goyer, who has written the screenplay (at least, the version in play at the moment). I think it's safe to assume that these are indications of a specific tone we can expect from The Man of Steel, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that it's ultimately a social allegory about the current immigration issues in America, in much the same way that The Dark Knight is a commentary on post-9/11 America.
That thesis, I suspect, will remain regardless of whatever rewrites are taking place.
07-22-11 | 11:14 AM
#1127
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
07-23-11 | 12:54 AM
#1129
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Sky Is Blue, Water Is Wet, Superman Is A One-Dimensional Idiot, Etc.
What’s harder to make than a Superman movie?
We posed the question last fall when Zack Snyder was tapped to direct Man of Steel. Today, as Warner Bros. confirmed it was pushing back the release of the Henry Cavill-led, Christopher Nolan production to June 2013, ensuring seven long years will have lapsed between the hero’s big-screen adventures, we realized the answer remained the same.
Nothing—nothing is harder to make than a Superman movie.
As the talents behind the following never-was Superman movies could still attest:
Superman Lives
Part of us is sad that Tim Burton and Nicolas Cage had the cape pulled out from under them just weeks before filming was to start on this would-be reboot in 1998. (And imagine how poor Pittsburgh, so close to being a stand-in for Metropolis, felt.) Then the other part of us watches the reputed costume test, and, to be honest, we’re relieved the franchise didn’t go all Danzig.
Superman Reborn (aka Superman Lives, aka the Kevin Smith version)
This mid-1990s screenplay by the Clerks’ manager never really got close to making it off the page. But it’s notable nonetheless for the priceless story Smith got out of his meetings with producer Jon Peters. (Two words: Giant spider.)
Batman vs. Superman
Pre-Nolan, the Caped Crusader was about as hot (read: cold) as the Last Son of Krypton. And, so in 2002, Warners looked to have the embattled characters prop each other up in an action team-up for Wolfgang Petersen (The Perfect Storm). But then Petersen decided, not incorrectly, that putting Brad Pitt in a skirt (for Troy) was a more pressing matter. Batman vs. Superman got shelved. And so it went.
Justice League of America movie (aka, Justice League Mortal)
A filmmaking great, one George Miller (Babe, Mad Max), was going to direct. A no-name actor, one D.J. Cotrona, was going to be Superman. The writers were going on strike…Oops, er…Oh, well. Another Supes-related project got grounded.
Superman: The Man of Steel (aka Superman Returns sequel)
Remember how Warners was absolutely, positively going to make another Bryan Singer-Brandon Routh adventure provided the duo’s 2006 behemoth broke $200 million at the domestic box office, which it did, barely? Forget about it. Where Superman movies are concerned, there is absolutely, positively no such thing as a sure thing.
Fortress of Sourcitude
What’s harder to make than a Superman movie?
We posed the question last fall when Zack Snyder was tapped to direct Man of Steel. Today, as Warner Bros. confirmed it was pushing back the release of the Henry Cavill-led, Christopher Nolan production to June 2013, ensuring seven long years will have lapsed between the hero’s big-screen adventures, we realized the answer remained the same.
Nothing—nothing is harder to make than a Superman movie.
As the talents behind the following never-was Superman movies could still attest:
Superman Lives
Part of us is sad that Tim Burton and Nicolas Cage had the cape pulled out from under them just weeks before filming was to start on this would-be reboot in 1998. (And imagine how poor Pittsburgh, so close to being a stand-in for Metropolis, felt.) Then the other part of us watches the reputed costume test, and, to be honest, we’re relieved the franchise didn’t go all Danzig.
Superman Reborn (aka Superman Lives, aka the Kevin Smith version)
This mid-1990s screenplay by the Clerks’ manager never really got close to making it off the page. But it’s notable nonetheless for the priceless story Smith got out of his meetings with producer Jon Peters. (Two words: Giant spider.)
Batman vs. Superman
Pre-Nolan, the Caped Crusader was about as hot (read: cold) as the Last Son of Krypton. And, so in 2002, Warners looked to have the embattled characters prop each other up in an action team-up for Wolfgang Petersen (The Perfect Storm). But then Petersen decided, not incorrectly, that putting Brad Pitt in a skirt (for Troy) was a more pressing matter. Batman vs. Superman got shelved. And so it went.
Justice League of America movie (aka, Justice League Mortal)
A filmmaking great, one George Miller (Babe, Mad Max), was going to direct. A no-name actor, one D.J. Cotrona, was going to be Superman. The writers were going on strike…Oops, er…Oh, well. Another Supes-related project got grounded.
Superman: The Man of Steel (aka Superman Returns sequel)
Remember how Warners was absolutely, positively going to make another Bryan Singer-Brandon Routh adventure provided the duo’s 2006 behemoth broke $200 million at the domestic box office, which it did, barely? Forget about it. Where Superman movies are concerned, there is absolutely, positively no such thing as a sure thing.
Fortress of Sourcitude
07-23-11 | 01:08 AM
#1130
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
He flat out executed the pocket plane Zod early on in the Byrne days.
There was a pocket universe in which Zod had destroyed its Earth and killed everyone on it. When he vowed that nothing short of death would ever stop him, Superman killed him.
Byrne wrote that story explicitly to show the Post-Crisis Superman was no longer the one dimensional boyscout that he was in the Silver Age. Yet there are still people even to this day who still have ignorant preconceived notions that Superman hasn't change a bit in the last 30 years.
There was a pocket universe in which Zod had destroyed its Earth and killed everyone on it. When he vowed that nothing short of death would ever stop him, Superman killed him.
Byrne wrote that story explicitly to show the Post-Crisis Superman was no longer the one dimensional boyscout that he was in the Silver Age. Yet there are still people even to this day who still have ignorant preconceived notions that Superman hasn't change a bit in the last 30 years.
07-23-11 | 05:51 AM
#1131
Banned
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
I have read the vast majority of Superman related comics from COIE to present day, and I don't recall anything ever specifically retconning it.
The closest that I can recall is Superman #666, where Clark has a nightmare of becoming an evil warlord. A demon tells him he has killed before, although he doesn't seem to remember it at first. When Clark wakes up, he asks Lois if he has ever killed. Lois says of course not, but Clark seems to have doubts.
I think it was really left up to the reader to determine what it meant. It does seem very odd that Clark would have completely forgotten something as major as killing the pocket plane criminals, but the end also seems to indicate that Clark is having doubts.
07-23-11 | 06:07 AM
#1132
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Also, it crossed my mind that my previous post drawing on the forthcoming DC Comics relaunch was not placed in a proper context. The prevailing perception is that DC's intention is to bring their comics more in line with their other media presences including TV and movies. This is why I thought there may be some value in reconciling what is known about that with what is known about the movie (i.e., Kents dead + young-ish Lane & Costner cast to play them; screenwriter Goyer having written the renouncement of U.S. citizenship).
07-23-11 | 04:25 PM
#1133
DVD Talk Hero
07-23-11 | 04:36 PM
#1134
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
07-23-11 | 05:17 PM
#1136
07-23-11 | 05:42 PM
#1137
Banned
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
While I do think killing Batman on-screen might be a bit much, and probably give kids watching it nightmares for weeks, I do wonder if they might surprise us. Everyone is expecting Bane to break Batman's back, so it won't really be shocking when/if that happens. What would be much more shocking would be if Bane kills him instead.
07-23-11 | 05:58 PM
#1138
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From: Formerly known as "Solid Snake PAC"/Denton, Tx
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
If it did...I wonder what kind of resolution there'd be for Gotham? Would the GPD (what w/ JGL being an on the beat cop...which I'm assuming is a good guy role) somehow salvage the situation? If Bats did die...it'd surprise the hell out of me....I'd love to see a great story out of that for sure if they did do that.
From the rumors we've heard on here the Bane breaking Bats moment is in...if they could do that onscreen and not look goofy...it could be a very terrifying visual..cuz you know...that's a harsh way to take a guy out of commission in whatever form.
From the rumors we've heard on here the Bane breaking Bats moment is in...if they could do that onscreen and not look goofy...it could be a very terrifying visual..cuz you know...that's a harsh way to take a guy out of commission in whatever form.
07-23-11 | 07:10 PM
#1139
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Is it possible that Wayne is talking to Gordon in the Hospital because he is also a patient there?
The teaser plays up the "becoming more than a man, a legend" idea from the first film. That, along with the stated finality of this film, could be suggesting that , by the time the film is over, Wayne has successfully established Batman as mythic figure that could be inhabited by a succession of people (JGL for starters?) and, if Wayne was incapacitated in the course of this film, he would still be in a position to aid, train, & support any proteges that end up wearing the costume.
That could be why Nolan chose Bane in the first place- to give Wayne's initial Begins motivation some closure, while still leaving the Batman character itself as a living, functioning entity in this universe.
The teaser plays up the "becoming more than a man, a legend" idea from the first film. That, along with the stated finality of this film, could be suggesting that , by the time the film is over, Wayne has successfully established Batman as mythic figure that could be inhabited by a succession of people (JGL for starters?) and, if Wayne was incapacitated in the course of this film, he would still be in a position to aid, train, & support any proteges that end up wearing the costume.
That could be why Nolan chose Bane in the first place- to give Wayne's initial Begins motivation some closure, while still leaving the Batman character itself as a living, functioning entity in this universe.
07-23-11 | 08:18 PM
#1140
DVD Talk Gold Edition
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Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Are you serious?
Even if Nolan had the balls to kill Batman because he was done with the series DC Comics would never allow it. The rules they impose in regards to how the character is portrayed are pretty strict if you're at all familiar with past portrayals. On the DCAU stuff they'd even have to pull all sorts of tricks to bend the rules enough to do, say, an episode where he is killed in a dream sequence.
Batman will not die in "The Dark Knight Rises". You can bet on it.
Even if Nolan had the balls to kill Batman because he was done with the series DC Comics would never allow it. The rules they impose in regards to how the character is portrayed are pretty strict if you're at all familiar with past portrayals. On the DCAU stuff they'd even have to pull all sorts of tricks to bend the rules enough to do, say, an episode where he is killed in a dream sequence.
Batman will not die in "The Dark Knight Rises". You can bet on it.
07-23-11 | 09:59 PM
#1141
Banned
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Are you serious?
Even if Nolan had the balls to kill Batman because he was done with the series DC Comics would never allow it. The rules they impose in regards to how the character is portrayed are pretty strict if you're at all familiar with past portrayals. On the DCAU stuff they'd even have to pull all sorts of tricks to bend the rules enough to do, say, an episode where he is killed in a dream sequence.
Batman will not die in "The Dark Knight Rises". You can bet on it.
Even if Nolan had the balls to kill Batman because he was done with the series DC Comics would never allow it. The rules they impose in regards to how the character is portrayed are pretty strict if you're at all familiar with past portrayals. On the DCAU stuff they'd even have to pull all sorts of tricks to bend the rules enough to do, say, an episode where he is killed in a dream sequence.
Batman will not die in "The Dark Knight Rises". You can bet on it.
DC Comics has killed plenty of popular characters, especially over the last decade or so it has been essentially become a gimmick to kill a character to temporarily improve declining sales. Heck, Darkseid "killed" Batman in Final Crisis in 2008. Dick Grayson then became Batman. Bruce didn't actually come back until late last year.
07-23-11 | 11:14 PM
#1142
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Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
While I do think killing Batman on-screen might be a bit much, and probably give kids watching it nightmares for weeks, I do wonder if they might surprise us. Everyone is expecting Bane to break Batman's back, so it won't really be shocking when/if that happens. What would be much more shocking would be if Bane kills him instead.
07-23-11 | 11:38 PM
#1143
Banned
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Spoken just like someone who doesn't read comics but still likes to pretend he has a clue what he is talking about. 
Sure Bane in the comics wears a luchador mask, but other than that he has nothing at all in common with a wrestler. Comparing the Schumacher version of Bane to comic book Bane is like comparing Adam West Joker to Heath Ledger Joker.
Sure Bane in the comics wears a luchador mask, but other than that he has nothing at all in common with a wrestler. Comparing the Schumacher version of Bane to comic book Bane is like comparing Adam West Joker to Heath Ledger Joker.
07-24-11 | 09:00 AM
#1146
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From: Formerly known as "Solid Snake PAC"/Denton, Tx
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Spoken just like someone who doesn't read comics but still likes to pretend he has a clue what he is talking about.
Sure Bane in the comics wears a luchador mask, but other than that he has nothing at all in common with a wrestler. Comparing the Schumacher version of Bane to comic book Bane is like comparing Adam West Joker to Heath Ledger Joker.
Sure Bane in the comics wears a luchador mask, but other than that he has nothing at all in common with a wrestler. Comparing the Schumacher version of Bane to comic book Bane is like comparing Adam West Joker to Heath Ledger Joker.
07-24-11 | 09:05 AM
#1147
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
Don't want to turn this into yet another Nolanverse thread, but it's worth noting that Warner has already publicly stated they'll be rebooting Batman after The Dark Knight Rises.
07-24-11 | 10:53 AM
#1148
DVD Talk Gold Edition
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Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
DC Comics has killed plenty of popular characters, especially over the last decade or so it has been essentially become a gimmick to kill a character to temporarily improve declining sales. Heck, Darkseid "killed" Batman in Final Crisis in 2008. Dick Grayson then became Batman. Bruce didn't actually come back until late last year.
Again, DC comics will not allow Christopher Nolan or anyone to kill Batman in a major motion picture.
07-24-11 | 11:03 AM
#1149
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Superman: The Man of Steel (D: Snyder)
I don't know where this DC Comics "clout" you talk about comes from, but in reality, DC is treated like the bastard step child over in the Warner family.
07-24-11 | 11:18 AM
#1150
DVD Talk Hero
