The "Star Wars" Saga ...questions you've always had?
#76
Inane Thread Master, 2018 TOTY
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Are any of us really anywhere?
Posts: 49,743
Received 977 Likes
on
814 Posts
Originally Posted by Yavin
Wasn't the "Episode IV" moniker not added until later releases of the film? When it was initially released it was just plain 'ol "Star Wars".
#77
Inane Thread Master, 2018 TOTY
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Are any of us really anywhere?
Posts: 49,743
Received 977 Likes
on
814 Posts
Originally Posted by milo bloom
The other story is that he originally had nine episodes planned, but knew it would take a miracle to finance them all. He knew the "middle" trilogy was the most action packed, so it would probably sell the best, and that the first trilogy wouldn't go over as well since it had a lot of politics and such.
This second theory does seem plausible, considering the political machinations we saw in the prequels, and they were a frequent target of the critics.
This second theory does seem plausible, considering the political machinations we saw in the prequels, and they were a frequent target of the critics.
#78
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by scott1598
he thought of all this even back in 1975-76 because i thought the 1-3 trilogy was more of a recent revelation for him?
#79
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by milo bloom
Two theories: Lucas was obviously inspired by the old Flash Gordon serials, and kinda wanted to get that "in media res" feeling by dropping you right in the middle of the action.
The other story is that he originally had nine episodes planned, but knew it would take a miracle to finance them all. He knew the "middle" trilogy was the most action packed, so it would probably sell the best, and that the first trilogy wouldn't go over as well since it had a lot of politics and such.
This second theory does seem plausible, considering the political machinations we saw in the prequels, and they were a frequent target of the critics.
The other story is that he originally had nine episodes planned, but knew it would take a miracle to finance them all. He knew the "middle" trilogy was the most action packed, so it would probably sell the best, and that the first trilogy wouldn't go over as well since it had a lot of politics and such.
This second theory does seem plausible, considering the political machinations we saw in the prequels, and they were a frequent target of the critics.
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by scott1598
i don't think it was in the title, but i think it was always in the opening scroll which is what i was referring to.
I also agree with Deputy Dave that Lucas winged most of it. He may have had an outline for more stories(not necessaily tied together) and even Darth Vader's character, similar to when an actor invents a fictional background for the part they're going to play in a film or stage show, so they can better understand their character's motivation and actions.
When ANH became so popular and a sequel was inevitable, he fleshed out these outlines and fortunately, they worked in the original trilogy, but in Parts 1-3, not so much.
#81
DVD Talk Legend
The IV was not part of the original scroll. If you'll recall a year or two back when Lucas released the "original" versions on DVD (basically dumping a laserdisc transfer on a disc), one of the selling points was the scroll without the Episode IV in it.
And there was plenty of story for a prequel trilogy, it just needed to be fleshed out by a better screenwriter. There was enough material for Genndy Tartovsky's Clone Wars, and there's even more material for the Clone Wars series in the works.
And there was plenty of story for a prequel trilogy, it just needed to be fleshed out by a better screenwriter. There was enough material for Genndy Tartovsky's Clone Wars, and there's even more material for the Clone Wars series in the works.
#82
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But it still had the subtitle "A New Hope", in the scroll, didn't it?
I know people at the time were getting confused as to why he had to specify the name of this particular "part" of the story.
I know people at the time were getting confused as to why he had to specify the name of this particular "part" of the story.
#83
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by redcon1
But it still had the subtitle "A New Hope", in the scroll, didn't it?
I know people at the time were getting confused as to why he had to specify the name of this particular "part" of the story.
I know people at the time were getting confused as to why he had to specify the name of this particular "part" of the story.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Opening_crawl
When originally released in 1977, the first film was simply titled Star Wars, as Lucas was not certain if he would follow the film with a sequel. Following The Empire Strikes Back, the film was re-released in 1981 with the subtitle 'Episode IV: A New Hope'. The original version, without the subtitle, was not released until the 2006 limited edition DVDs. The opening crawl was re-created to not include the now familiar subtitle specially for the 2006 DVD.
#84
Inane Thread Master, 2018 TOTY
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Are any of us really anywhere?
Posts: 49,743
Received 977 Likes
on
814 Posts
Originally Posted by milo bloom
I don't think so, and Wookiepedia agrees:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Opening_crawl
When originally released in 1977, the first film was simply titled Star Wars, as Lucas was not certain if he would follow the film with a sequel. Following The Empire Strikes Back, the film was re-released in 1981 with the subtitle 'Episode IV: A New Hope'. The original version, without the subtitle, was not released until the 2006 limited edition DVDs. The opening crawl was re-created to not include the now familiar subtitle specially for the 2006 DVD.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Opening_crawl
When originally released in 1977, the first film was simply titled Star Wars, as Lucas was not certain if he would follow the film with a sequel. Following The Empire Strikes Back, the film was re-released in 1981 with the subtitle 'Episode IV: A New Hope'. The original version, without the subtitle, was not released until the 2006 limited edition DVDs. The opening crawl was re-created to not include the now familiar subtitle specially for the 2006 DVD.
#85
DVD Talk Gold Edition
So what exactly was the original plan to rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt before things got messed up with the Rancor, the Sarlacc, etc.? As best I can figure it, the plan goes like this:
Plan A - Lando applies for employment with Jabba and interviews for the position of Palace Guard. Should he get hired, proceed to Plan B.
Plan B - R2-D2 and C-3PO are sent to Jabba to play a message from Luke. In the message, Luke offers the droids to Jabba as a peace offering. Plan C soon follows.
Plan C - Leia, disguised as a bounty hunter, comes in with Chewbacca who is pretending to be captured by her. Just for laughs, she threatens to blow herself up with a thermal detonator unless Jabba agrees to pay a higher bounty. Later, she unthaws Han, then the two of them sneak out, leaving Chewie to rot inside a prison cell. Proceed to Plan D.
Plan D - Lando leaves Chewie’s cell door unlocked so he can escape.
Plan E - R2-D2 happily serves drinks on Jabba’s sail barge. Inside his domed head, a lightsaber is safely tucked away. Did Plans C and D go horrendously bad? If so, see Plan F below.
Plan F - Luke will eventually make a mysterious appearance and, at some point, give Artoo a nod which is the signal to “Get ready and jettison that lightsaber out to me.” He will then wipe out all of Jabba’s guards except for the guy answering to “Lando.”
Plan G – If Plan F (see above) is not required, R2-D2 happily serves drinks on Jabba’s sail barge. Meanwhile, C-3PO faces the indignity of being Jabba’s interpreter until his new master disintegrates him. At some point, Lando calls in sick and never comes back to work.
Plan A - Lando applies for employment with Jabba and interviews for the position of Palace Guard. Should he get hired, proceed to Plan B.
Plan B - R2-D2 and C-3PO are sent to Jabba to play a message from Luke. In the message, Luke offers the droids to Jabba as a peace offering. Plan C soon follows.
Plan C - Leia, disguised as a bounty hunter, comes in with Chewbacca who is pretending to be captured by her. Just for laughs, she threatens to blow herself up with a thermal detonator unless Jabba agrees to pay a higher bounty. Later, she unthaws Han, then the two of them sneak out, leaving Chewie to rot inside a prison cell. Proceed to Plan D.
Plan D - Lando leaves Chewie’s cell door unlocked so he can escape.
Plan E - R2-D2 happily serves drinks on Jabba’s sail barge. Inside his domed head, a lightsaber is safely tucked away. Did Plans C and D go horrendously bad? If so, see Plan F below.
Plan F - Luke will eventually make a mysterious appearance and, at some point, give Artoo a nod which is the signal to “Get ready and jettison that lightsaber out to me.” He will then wipe out all of Jabba’s guards except for the guy answering to “Lando.”
Plan G – If Plan F (see above) is not required, R2-D2 happily serves drinks on Jabba’s sail barge. Meanwhile, C-3PO faces the indignity of being Jabba’s interpreter until his new master disintegrates him. At some point, Lando calls in sick and never comes back to work.
#86
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
but a physical manifestation? Seems kinda out there considering it never was brought up in any of the other films. If the dark side of the force was that powerful why bother building clones, why not just manifest an army from scratch? Why build a Death Star when you can just whip one up from your imagination?
#87
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by milo bloom
And there was plenty of story for a prequel trilogy, it just needed to be fleshed out by a better screenwriter. There was enough material for Genndy Tartovsky's Clone Wars, and there's even more material for the Clone Wars series in the works.
#88
New Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What bothered me after the release of episode III was the apparent difference in power of Vader from III to IV, i mean he's supposeldy so strong and it's evident in the last while of the movie, so what happened in episode Iv, why is he suboridinate to an officer, why can he only choke people.
It's disappointing to say the least.
It's disappointing to say the least.
#89
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by FrankButlar
What bothered me after the release of episode III was the apparent difference in power of Vader from III to IV, i mean he's supposeldy so strong and it's evident in the last while of the movie, so what happened in episode Iv, why is he suboridinate to an officer, why can he only choke people.
It's disappointing to say the least.
It's disappointing to say the least.
I think the reason is because he's "more machine than man now." He's lost much of his body, thus losing a lot of midichlorians.
Vader is no longer as powerful as a 40-something half droid as he was as a young 20's badass Jedi/Sith.
#90
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by rennervision
So what exactly was the original plan to rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt before things got messed up with the Rancor, the Sarlacc, etc.? As best I can figure it, the plan goes like this:
1. Lando was there to scout to make sure Han was there.
2. The droids tried the peaceful route, playing Luke's message, offering money, etc.
3. Now an escape is needed, so Chewie is sent in as extra muscle, with Leia.
I figure by this time, the team has an agreement that if they are not out by a certain time, thats Luke's cue that something is wrong and its his turn to go in. Knowing he would be checked for weapons, R2 has his saber.
I think he was planning on getting captured, to be close to Han and Chewie. Thats why he grabbed a blaster against Jabba, that had no chance of working, but can get him captured.
The X factor being the Rancor. After that, Luke still knew he has the saber available and the element of surprise, and then kicks everyones ass.
#91
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Artman
And did you happen to see the latest preview for the Clone Wars movie? It involves rescuing Jabba the Hutt's son (seriously). See what I mean?
Eh, that doesn't bother me so much. As mentioned by others, the Hutt's are a powerful family in organized crime and, likely, politics. Besides, it's only one sub-plot, and the series is supposed to go for 100 episodes
The rescue plan from Jabba's palace in ROTJ? I admit that even I'm stumped on this one. In the novel, Luke tells Han as they are on the way to the Sarlacc that he wanted everyone out of the palace because it was too well guarded. The only thing I can offer is that the six months between TESB and ROTJ really gave Luke a lot of time to deepen his knowledge of the Force and maybe he was able to get glimpses of the future and plan accordingly. Lucas' fatigue as a writer is starting to show at this point, but is a firecracker of a battle.
The cave on Degobah is less clear, but at the same time more obvious. Luke was progressing quickly, but Yoda knew he wouldn't have a lot of time to give him real-life experiences, and he needed a quick and hard, but non-lethal lesson. Going back to the novel, Yoda calls it a "servant of evil". After beheading the Luke/Vader, Luke wonders if there's some "even darker meaning behind the unsettling vision".
So it could have been a natural focus point for the dark side, or Yoda killed a dark Jedi there during his exile.
The "how" of that scene is really not as important as the "why" of that scene.
#92
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by milo bloom
The "how" of that scene is really not as important as the "why" of that scene.
#93
Why did Lucas kill off the two best characters from the prequels in the first movie? I can understand why Qui-Gon had to die but Obi-Wan was just boring and uninteresting. Darth Maul was badass. The villains got worse with each movie Darth Maul > Count Dooku > General Grievious
#94
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by rennervision
Wouldn't it have been cool if the prequels actually explained stuff like the tree on Dagobah, or why Luke thought the planet seemed so familiar? Instead, we get revelations like the one in episode III that Palpatine was really (gasp!) the Sith Master!
Honestly, one of my few burning questions after all these years is: how long was Luke on Degobah along with how long was the Falcon flying at sublight speeds. It really only seems to work if you start getting into time dilation and whatnot, but I'd like to have even a guess from Lucas at this point.
Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
Why did Lucas kill off the two best characters from the prequels in the first movie? I can understand why Qui-Gon had to die but Obi-Wan was just boring and uninteresting. Darth Maul was badass. The villains got worse with each movie Darth Maul > Count Dooku > General Grievious
The villain progression was supposed to symbolize three different facets of the Vader we knew in the OT. Maul was the pure fighter, would kick your ass just as soon as he'd look at you. Dooku was the strategist, the cool one, like when Vader was able to change the attack plan on Hoth mid-stride because of Admiral Ozzel's mistake or when he deflects Han's blaster bolts and yanks the gun on Bespin, then calmly says "we would be honored if you would join us". Grievous is the more literal symbol, the half-man, half-machine that he would become, and the pure anger that kept him going all those years.
A good idea in concept, but as usual, just didn't come across so well onscreen.
#95
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Leandro/San Francisco
Posts: 7,422
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by raven56706
why is boba fett so popular?
Lucas' writing did that.
#96
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by kstublen
He was more than just some dude that liked to party. He ran a crime syndicate. An alien mob boss, crime lord. That's why he was always involved with the bounty hunters and smugglers. That's why he hired Boba Fett to bring Han in carbonite, because Han had to dump a load he was carrying for Jabba and never reimbursed him; after that he put a really large bounty on Han's head.
#99
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by riley_dude
I thought Boba Fett was a cool baddie in episode 5 but then the prequels made him out to be, well, uh.... Lame.
Lucas' writing did that.
Lucas' writing did that.
Really I thought the subplot on Jango and Boba made him much cooler then what he was in the OT. I mean he doesn't do anything in V or VI and gets "killed" by a lucky swing.
I liked him before the prequels but I think that the prequels made him that much cooler.
I really never thought about the whole going back and buying back Anakin's mom thing. I think that may be the biggest plot hole of the whole series. Especially considering how it is the main fulcrum that turns the main character of the whole series into a tortured character. Although to their credit they covered up this plot hole decently by frequently mentioning that he wouldn't see her at all because he has to join the jedi order now.
Here is my question: Can someone explain the politics of the Sith in the prequels? Who is Darth tyrannus and how and why did he order the clone army? How could the Jedi not know? Wouldn't they get a message on their answering machine? "This is Clone Army R' Us. We would like to let you know that your clone army is ready for pick up. Please have your claim check ready to present to the cashier." Was the whole purpose of the clone army for the order 66? If that was the case was obi won finding the planet just a fortuitous hapenstance and did it speed up the time table or was it all planned?
As for granting emergency powers to the chancellor is that really necessary if he is already in control of an enormous army? Many times in history the military leaders of a country will overtake the politicians simply because they have the loyalty of the military. In the OT it seems like they wiped out most of the aliens anyways leaving mainly white human males in charge of the empire. So it doesn't seem like they would need the support of other worlds.
#100
Lucas never had a plan for prequels, or even sequels, as Star Wars was a standalone movie. Sure he had notes about where Kenobi/Darth Vader came from, and I am sure he had ideas jotted down about what he could do if Star Wars was a hit in 1977, but Lucas is lying when he said he had this all planned out.
The biggest piece of information is in the 'Annotated Screenplayes' and the first draft of Empire Strikes Back is called: Star Wars: Chapter 2. If Lucas had this all planned out, why wouldn't it be called Star Wars: Chapter 5?
The biggest piece of information is in the 'Annotated Screenplayes' and the first draft of Empire Strikes Back is called: Star Wars: Chapter 2. If Lucas had this all planned out, why wouldn't it be called Star Wars: Chapter 5?