Am I the only one who liked the Star Wars prequels?
02-15-08, 10:26 AM
#51
Originally Posted by Brack
even if it is true that she lost the will to live, maybe Padme knew her children would survive better knowing that Anakin knows that she died, along with her children, as a way of protecting them.
Last edited by Brack; 02-15-08 at 10:32 AM.
02-15-08, 11:32 AM
#52
Originally Posted by Brack
So we're supposed to rely on the word of some OB droid that that is what Padme was doing, losing the will to live? I don't buy it. Anakin killed her. And even it is true that she lost the will to live, maybe Padme knew her children would survive better knowing that Anakin knows that she died, along with her children, as a way of protecting them.
Having Padme die of 'the will to live' is really stupid, and maybe Lucas should have consulted with a mother who actually has children before writing this plot point, remember he adopted all 3 of his kids without his wife Marcia, after the divorce.
Women don't abandon their children, if you watch shows like 48 Hours, they usually kill their husbands if they are threatened to lose their kids. Sure there are a couple of women that have killed their kids, but they are certifiably crazy, and pretty weak minded, as Lucas established Padme in Episode I & II as being a politician, almost a feminist in a GFFA, she wasn't some crackpot wife who couldn't make it on her own, she was the Queen at one time!
Lucas should have stuck with the ROTJ story he crafted in the Novel in 1983. Padme escapes with the kids, and Vader thinks she was killed by some means (her ship blowing up?) and then she dies of Cancer or something when Leia is about 5 years old, while baby Luke is on Tatooine with Owen/Beru.
02-15-08, 11:36 AM
#53
Video Game Talk Reviewer
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Formerly known as "Vryce"/Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 13,856
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I didn't mind the new trilogy too much. It had some interesting points and scenes to make it enjoyable.
The biggest issue I had with them are Jar-Jar and young Anakin. Jar-Jar was so ridiculous and over the top, it had to be to draw in younger viewers.
And Anakin was seen as the likeable here. I actually cringed a bit in the theater when people were cheering and rooting for him to win the pod race. It was as if they forgot that he grows up to be quite evil and destroys a planet killing millions.
Sure, the pod race was fun to watch, but actually cheering and rooting for Anakin was a bit much. I almost couldn't believe that is how the movie set up the audience.
The biggest issue I had with them are Jar-Jar and young Anakin. Jar-Jar was so ridiculous and over the top, it had to be to draw in younger viewers.
And Anakin was seen as the likeable here. I actually cringed a bit in the theater when people were cheering and rooting for him to win the pod race. It was as if they forgot that he grows up to be quite evil and destroys a planet killing millions.
Sure, the pod race was fun to watch, but actually cheering and rooting for Anakin was a bit much. I almost couldn't believe that is how the movie set up the audience.
02-15-08, 11:43 AM
#54
Originally Posted by coli
Lucas said in an interview after ROTS, "I couldn't have Anakin kill her, because that would be too much, so I had to have him have the appearance of believing he killed her when Palpatine tells him, so thats where I came up with the will to live."
Having Padme die of 'the will to live' is really stupid, and maybe Lucas should have consulted with a mother who actually has children before writing this plot point, remember he adopted all 3 of his kids without his wife Marcia, after the divorce.
Women don't abandon their children, if you watch shows like 48 Hours, they usually kill their husbands if they are threatened to lose their kids. Sure there are a couple of women that have killed their kids, but they are certifiably crazy, and pretty weak minded, as Lucas established Padme in Episode I & II as being a politician, almost a feminist in a GFFA, she wasn't some crackpot wife who couldn't make it on her own, she was the Queen at one time!
Lucas should have stuck with the ROTJ story he crafted in the Novel in 1983. Padme escapes with the kids, and Vader thinks she was killed by some means (her ship blowing up?) and then she dies of Cancer or something when Leia is about 5 years old, while baby Luke is on Tatooine with Owen/Beru.
Having Padme die of 'the will to live' is really stupid, and maybe Lucas should have consulted with a mother who actually has children before writing this plot point, remember he adopted all 3 of his kids without his wife Marcia, after the divorce.
Women don't abandon their children, if you watch shows like 48 Hours, they usually kill their husbands if they are threatened to lose their kids. Sure there are a couple of women that have killed their kids, but they are certifiably crazy, and pretty weak minded, as Lucas established Padme in Episode I & II as being a politician, almost a feminist in a GFFA, she wasn't some crackpot wife who couldn't make it on her own, she was the Queen at one time!
Lucas should have stuck with the ROTJ story he crafted in the Novel in 1983. Padme escapes with the kids, and Vader thinks she was killed by some means (her ship blowing up?) and then she dies of Cancer or something when Leia is about 5 years old, while baby Luke is on Tatooine with Owen/Beru.
Which brings me to think about "Return of the Jedi," when Luke asks Lea if she remember her mother, and she says something like "only a little." Is she talking about Padme?
02-15-08, 12:13 PM
#55
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by Brack
Which brings me to think about "Return of the Jedi," when Luke asks Lea if she remember her mother, and she says something like "only a little." Is she talking about Padme?
Having Padmé losing her will to live wasn't a credible explanation, given her strong personality. She SHOULD have died from her injuries. It would have made Anakin's fall and his decision to join the dark side that much more satisfying.
02-15-08, 12:19 PM
#56
Originally Posted by Brack
Those are some very good points, especially since Lucas said it himself. Like myself and others have said, George should've gotten somone to write these movies, and him just sticking to the "story" like in the others. I'm starting to think he never really wrote the script for "A New Hope."
Which brings me to think about "Return of the Jedi," when Luke asks Lea if she remember her mother, and she says something like "only a little." Is she talking about Padme?
Which brings me to think about "Return of the Jedi," when Luke asks Lea if she remember her mother, and she says something like "only a little." Is she talking about Padme?
In the movie, Luke says, "Your REAL mother." So Leia knows he is not asking about Bail Organas wife on Alderran.
In The Annotated Screenplays, Lucas/Kasdan decide that Uncle Owen and Ben Kenobi are brothers, and that is why Kenobi takes Luke there after Anakin supposedly dies. Owen does not like Kenobi anymore, cause he feels that he and Anakin should have not gotten involved in that Clone Wars. After everything happens with Anakin and Emperor taking over the Galaxy, Padme must choose one of the children to take, and she chooses Leia and goes to Alderran and dies there a couple of years later, that is why Leia says, "She died while I was very young." Leia also says in the ROTJ novel to Luke, "That she remembers playing games with her mother around house, and hiding from her as a joke."
There is also an extended conversation between Anakin/Luke on DeathStar II, where Anakin talks more about his past, and asks about Leia.
Get all the Novels guys, they really enrich the movies, if you are a SW geek like me.
02-15-08, 01:18 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best way i look at all 6 of the films is to just watch them in order knowing each film from start to finish gets better and better with the excpetion of ROTJ where i just insert it after Clones. But the the first 5 films at least it's a good yet bittersweet feeling that each film gets better than the one before.
02-15-08, 01:33 PM
#58
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not going to rewrite ROTS but I think there was an easy solution that incorporates what Lucas did- just have Padme, while holding Leia, tell Obi-Wan that she knows the children will be safer without her and that she is now a danger to their very existence.
Makes Padme's sacrifice of herself more understandable, instead of a one sentence explanation from a MEDICAL DROID.
Makes Padme's sacrifice of herself more understandable, instead of a one sentence explanation from a MEDICAL DROID.
02-15-08, 02:42 PM
#59
En vacance
Menace>Sith>Clones
Menace really was the best they could get ironically, last shot on film without the green screen insanity that came after. Many standout moments and it feels most like the OT of the 3. Heck even Anakin gets a pass because how else would a 12 year-old act, really the only problem is mr. Binks.
Clones was shit from tip to tip. So much awful stuff like that shitty romance, awful acting, acrobat Yoda, droid factory, young Boba, 50s diner droids wtf?
Menace really was the best they could get ironically, last shot on film without the green screen insanity that came after. Many standout moments and it feels most like the OT of the 3. Heck even Anakin gets a pass because how else would a 12 year-old act, really the only problem is mr. Binks.
Clones was shit from tip to tip. So much awful stuff like that shitty romance, awful acting, acrobat Yoda, droid factory, young Boba, 50s diner droids wtf?
02-15-08, 04:31 PM
#61
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Part of the Left-Wing Conspiracy
Posts: 7,474
Received 179 Likes
on
100 Posts
Originally Posted by Eplicon
ROTS came the closest to the tone and feel of the classic trilogy. But Lucas failed on so many levels in telling Anakin's back story. He was made so unlikeable from the get-go that he was nothing like the tragic figure that I had expected from what little was known of him at the end of ROTJ. He was a pipsquirt in TPM and an annoying mama's boy in AOTC. It took too long to set up the brotherhood/friendship thing between him and Obi-Wan.
Besides the poor dialog, Lucas spent way too much time tying both trilogies together (e.g., similar situations and dialog), much to the detriment of pushing the story forward. He over-explained things that didn't need to be explored that deeply.
Besides the poor dialog, Lucas spent way too much time tying both trilogies together (e.g., similar situations and dialog), much to the detriment of pushing the story forward. He over-explained things that didn't need to be explored that deeply.
Originally Posted by coli
As for the PT, there are some people I know who hate it, I have yet to meet a person who loves it, and most people I know like myself think it is OK, as it has some great parts, but in the same vein has some bad parts in each movie too which really bring them down. But in the end, it is SW, and there is something about a GFFA that keeps you interested. The majority of friends I know agree with me, ANH & ESB are the great SW movies, ROTS & ROTJ are the good SW movies, AOTC & TPM have their moments but are severely hampered by Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd, and the AOTC Romance.
The problem as to why the PT will never be loved is three-fold:
1. You don't have those loveable iconic characters from the OT: Luke, Leia, and Han, as the ultimate guys to root for. Chewy, Lando, Yoda, and Kenobi who are great secondary characters to like. And Darth Vader & The Emperor as some of the coolest bad guys in movie history. What does the PT have? Anakin is whiney and unlikeable, Kenobi is liked, but doesn't have any screentime in TPM. Padme turns out to be barefoot and pregnant and gives up on her kids? Palpatine is really good, but really doesn't get solid screentime til ROTS, so you have alot of secondary characters playing the role of main characters, and that is hard for an audience to relate to. I actually really enjoy the PT story overall, but if you can't invest in any of the characters, the movies come off very hollow.
2. The OT movies were pure B-serial movies, as they had that combo of action/special effects/mythology/humor and a bit of drama to give them legitimacy in the genre. To me they were the ultimate guilty pleasure movies with alittle substance, and you could watch them over and over. The PT is a B-serial movie trying to be a drama like Schindlers List and the two dont' mix. You can't have all this cheesy dialogue, and average acting from actors like Christenson & Portman, and then expect the dramatic scenes to be dramatic! The audience can't go from one to another, you either have cheese or drama, but not both. The PT is ultimately a tragedy, and that has to be more adult then having Jar Jar hopping around like the Three Stooges for 2 hours, and that is why the movies come off very uneven.
3. The OT had more collaboration and the PT Lucas wrote and directed the whole thing, and I believe Lucas was in his prime in the late 70's/early 80's as he had the hunger to make a great movie, rather then being a CEO now. I would ask anyone, who would you want making a Sci-Fi movie, a guy in his late 20's who just got married and has no kids and knows whats cool, or a guy in his 50's with 3 kids who is kinda out of touch?
The problem as to why the PT will never be loved is three-fold:
1. You don't have those loveable iconic characters from the OT: Luke, Leia, and Han, as the ultimate guys to root for. Chewy, Lando, Yoda, and Kenobi who are great secondary characters to like. And Darth Vader & The Emperor as some of the coolest bad guys in movie history. What does the PT have? Anakin is whiney and unlikeable, Kenobi is liked, but doesn't have any screentime in TPM. Padme turns out to be barefoot and pregnant and gives up on her kids? Palpatine is really good, but really doesn't get solid screentime til ROTS, so you have alot of secondary characters playing the role of main characters, and that is hard for an audience to relate to. I actually really enjoy the PT story overall, but if you can't invest in any of the characters, the movies come off very hollow.
2. The OT movies were pure B-serial movies, as they had that combo of action/special effects/mythology/humor and a bit of drama to give them legitimacy in the genre. To me they were the ultimate guilty pleasure movies with alittle substance, and you could watch them over and over. The PT is a B-serial movie trying to be a drama like Schindlers List and the two dont' mix. You can't have all this cheesy dialogue, and average acting from actors like Christenson & Portman, and then expect the dramatic scenes to be dramatic! The audience can't go from one to another, you either have cheese or drama, but not both. The PT is ultimately a tragedy, and that has to be more adult then having Jar Jar hopping around like the Three Stooges for 2 hours, and that is why the movies come off very uneven.
3. The OT had more collaboration and the PT Lucas wrote and directed the whole thing, and I believe Lucas was in his prime in the late 70's/early 80's as he had the hunger to make a great movie, rather then being a CEO now. I would ask anyone, who would you want making a Sci-Fi movie, a guy in his late 20's who just got married and has no kids and knows whats cool, or a guy in his 50's with 3 kids who is kinda out of touch?
02-15-08, 05:52 PM
#62
Pretty much I agree with a lot of the disappointment expressed in this thread and the lost opportunity Lucas had to truly made these movies special.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I6hOlI9cg4o&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I6hOlI9cg4o&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
This first trailer had such promise -- the movie realization of the prequels I had heard about in my youth around the time of "Empire" (the best and not the worst Mr. Lucas)... but with the following trailers I got the sense of meh... or rather, "I have a bad feeling about this."
I believe the prequels would have only benefited from Lucas taking an executive producer position and allowing others to craft his overall vision for the story. My $.02.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I6hOlI9cg4o&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I6hOlI9cg4o&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
This first trailer had such promise -- the movie realization of the prequels I had heard about in my youth around the time of "Empire" (the best and not the worst Mr. Lucas)... but with the following trailers I got the sense of meh... or rather, "I have a bad feeling about this."
I believe the prequels would have only benefited from Lucas taking an executive producer position and allowing others to craft his overall vision for the story. My $.02.
02-15-08, 08:08 PM
#63
DVD Talk Limited Edition
The Phantom Menace has many serious flaws (which have already been listed in this thread), but I personally thought that Liam Neeson anchored the film in such a way that I still enjoyed it. It wasn't the "film of my dreams", but I liked it well enough I guess.
With Neeson gone...I just really hated Attack of the Clones, pretty much from start to finish. Most of the dialogue and stiff acting was just so bad that I didn't care about any of the characters. I held out hopes that the end would "save the film" for me, but it felt more like a video game or a cartoon. There was just no feel of reality to that final battle.
I thought Revenge of the Sith was an improvement, but not as much as some.
With Neeson gone...I just really hated Attack of the Clones, pretty much from start to finish. Most of the dialogue and stiff acting was just so bad that I didn't care about any of the characters. I held out hopes that the end would "save the film" for me, but it felt more like a video game or a cartoon. There was just no feel of reality to that final battle.
I thought Revenge of the Sith was an improvement, but not as much as some.
02-15-08, 09:12 PM
#64
DVD Talk Special Edition
My feeling is that TPM would've been hugely improved by not making Annakin an "accidental" hero. First off, they were already doing that with Jar Jar. It would've been a lot better if he was this eight-year old kid that decided to fly off into space and went out and kicked butt (you know, "he was already a great pilot"), instead of "let's spin, that'll be a neat trick." I know the idea was the Force was looking out for him, but that's lame, he should've been using the Force and not the other way around. And I want to scream with all of his yippees and whatnot, especially from Qui Gonn just picking him up!
Also, they should've given Darth Maul more screen time, he had a lot of potential and helped save the show with the Duel of the Fates.
I like AOTC, but the romance is just terrible. My God. I thought Obi Wan saved the show in this one, McGregor was tremendous in my opinion. And of course Yoda was the ultimate payoff.
Honestly, I've been burned out on Star Wars so I haven't seen ROTS for awhile. I liked it, but NOOOO!!!! was so bad that it almost ruined the film for me. I know that's lame, but seriously, what was Lucas thinking? And the way they did the Padme death was stupid, as you've all pointed out. But I do like it, and I think the Order 99 scenes were awesome. Mace Windu's death was great too. This was by far the best of the PT, and it fits with the OT in my opinion. But I need to rewatch it.
Also, they should've given Darth Maul more screen time, he had a lot of potential and helped save the show with the Duel of the Fates.
I like AOTC, but the romance is just terrible. My God. I thought Obi Wan saved the show in this one, McGregor was tremendous in my opinion. And of course Yoda was the ultimate payoff.
Honestly, I've been burned out on Star Wars so I haven't seen ROTS for awhile. I liked it, but NOOOO!!!! was so bad that it almost ruined the film for me. I know that's lame, but seriously, what was Lucas thinking? And the way they did the Padme death was stupid, as you've all pointed out. But I do like it, and I think the Order 99 scenes were awesome. Mace Windu's death was great too. This was by far the best of the PT, and it fits with the OT in my opinion. But I need to rewatch it.
Last edited by JeremyM; 02-15-08 at 09:14 PM.
02-15-08, 11:20 PM
#65
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JeremyM
Mace Windu's death was great too.
02-16-08, 08:37 AM
#67
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Brack
^^^ If you only knew the power of the dark side. 
02-16-08, 09:23 AM
#68
DVD Talk Legend
I have my 7.5 month old on my lap and he's usually trying to beat the hell out of the keyboard, but when I was playing the teaser up there just now, he was enthralled watching the screen.
02-16-08, 10:54 AM
#69
DVD Talk Legend
Story issues aside (I would've rather they start w/ the AOTC story rather than TPM, actually show the Clone Wars, etc...) the movies just aren't very well made. Yes, the OT wasn't exactly Citizen Kane either, but had a much better structure and focus, and actors that were pretty charismatic and likable.
I think what's frustrating is that any one step along the way would've greatly helped the films - one more script rewrite, another take with the actors, another round of editing, etc. They had so much post-production time on these - maybe it was too much? The films suffer from a lack of energy and pacing imo, and I think that was merely an extension of the ease in which Lucas could make them (compared to the OT).
I think what's frustrating is that any one step along the way would've greatly helped the films - one more script rewrite, another take with the actors, another round of editing, etc. They had so much post-production time on these - maybe it was too much? The films suffer from a lack of energy and pacing imo, and I think that was merely an extension of the ease in which Lucas could make them (compared to the OT).
02-16-08, 11:01 AM
#70
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My favorite is Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace which everyone seems to hate. I just love that fact that kid seemed so innocent yet you were fully aware of what he would become. Also the posters of him standing in Darth Vader's shadow was pretty cool.
02-16-08, 12:38 PM
#71
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by WOLFie
My favorite is Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace which everyone seems to hate. I just love that fact that kid seemed so innocent yet you were fully aware of what he would become. Also the posters of him standing in Darth Vader's shadow was pretty cool.
02-16-08, 01:43 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
See, that would've been cool. If he created multiple versions of himself using some Sith technique, and they didn't know which one was the real one. Then I could see him taking a couple of 'em down rather quickly. But as it stands now, ugh...
02-16-08, 05:35 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Scranton, Pa
Posts: 785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I pretty much got into Star Wars when TPM was released in '99. I never watched the OT all the way through. I think I saw most of Ep.4 and bits and pieces of Ep.5 I know it's sad. When Lucas released the Trilogy dvd set in '04, I finally got a chance to put the entire story together. Of course by then I had already seen AOTC & TPM. TPM.. Was bleh...Young Anakin never won me over.
Darth Maul was a great villian and the lightsaber match definitely made me a Star Wars fan for life. The pod race was decent as well but the Jar Jar Binks character just killed the movie imo. I see what Lucas had intended. He was trying to bring a new generation into his science fiction fantasy. AOTC was slightly better than TPM. I felt Dooku was not as great as Darth Maul. And of course the entire love story revolving around Anakin and Padme was a little boring to me.
When Ep. 3 opened I was excited and sad to see the trilogy end. It was definitely a huge improvement over the last two. And took care of all the loose ends I'd been questioning for several years. In the end I enjoy the entire series. I usually watch them all back to back. Sometimes I start with 4 and sometimes 1. I guess because we all started with 4 so it's just second nature.
OT>Pre
Darth Maul was a great villian and the lightsaber match definitely made me a Star Wars fan for life. The pod race was decent as well but the Jar Jar Binks character just killed the movie imo. I see what Lucas had intended. He was trying to bring a new generation into his science fiction fantasy. AOTC was slightly better than TPM. I felt Dooku was not as great as Darth Maul. And of course the entire love story revolving around Anakin and Padme was a little boring to me.
When Ep. 3 opened I was excited and sad to see the trilogy end. It was definitely a huge improvement over the last two. And took care of all the loose ends I'd been questioning for several years. In the end I enjoy the entire series. I usually watch them all back to back. Sometimes I start with 4 and sometimes 1. I guess because we all started with 4 so it's just second nature.
OT>Pre
02-16-08, 06:27 PM
#74
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Brack
The Jedi never even knew. They "suspected" Palpatine was bad news, but didn't do shit. That to me is pretty powerful all on it's own.
