Hey Hollywood...we don't want your Anti-War/Anti-US films
11-29-07, 02:12 AM
#276
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I haven't read the thread, just the op. But I just want to comment on how uncannily the op's post resembles the shit they pull on FOX News. You're taking statistics that represent one thing and attempting to make them represent something else.
Poorly made leftist movie = bad box office numbers.
Therefore, bad box office numbers = People are sick of leftist movies.
The Liberals are hurting America!! Oh GOD THE LIBERALS!!!!!!
We should call you Sean Van O'Reilly.
Poorly made leftist movie = bad box office numbers.
Therefore, bad box office numbers = People are sick of leftist movies.
The Liberals are hurting America!! Oh GOD THE LIBERALS!!!!!!
We should call you Sean Van O'Reilly.
11-29-07, 02:33 AM
#277
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Doughboy
replacing "the American way" with "all that stuff" in Superman Returns.
Originally Posted by Doughboy
Plus people actually being offended that Spidey is shown in front of an American flag in Spider-Man 3(there was plenty to be offended by in that movie, but not that scene).
11-29-07, 07:48 AM
#278
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=21897
Wars and War Movies
Six or seven years after wars end, the media starts saying things like, "Actually we shouldn't have been taken in by all that Golf of Tonkin stuff" and Hollywood chimes in with anti-war films.
The tradition of anti-war films coming out six or seven years AFTER a war was established in 1925 with THE BIG PARADE, which spawned a series of World War I films that lasted through the early 1930s. At first these were movies that looked back with sadness on what had happened. Then gradually they became cautionary films that looked back really as a way of warning about the possible terrors to come in a second World War.
This fear of another World War spawned a series of great pacifist films, including ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT, THE DAWN PATROL, ACES OF ACES, BROKEN LULLABY and, my favorite, THE EAGLE AND THE HAWK, about the most pacifist war film ever made in America, although REDACTED, which opens Friday, gives it a run for its money.
I don't think we really had any anti-World War II movies. Korea may have come too soon for that to happen, or maybe WW2 was just too unambiguously necessary.
But Vietnam, which ended in January '73 (ended for us, at least) resulted in THE DEER HUNTER in 1978, APOCALYPSE NOW the following year, and in the 1980s CASUALTIES OF WAR, PLATOON, BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY and I'm sure others. There were also Vietnam themed movies, like COMING HOME.
The first Gulf War, which began and ended in 1991, gave us COURAGE UNDER FIRE (1996), though that was not exactly an anti-war movie, and the more recent JARHEAD.
From a film history angle, what's interesting about this current war is that the anti-war films are starting already, with the war still going on. LIONS FOR LAMBS is all about the war and features battle scenes, but REDACTED goes way beyond that. It's a fictional documentary that follows soldiers (played by actors) as they go about their tasks in Iraq.
Anti-war movies made AFTER a war look back sadly on the loss of life. They assume a certain consensus within the audience, maybe that the war was necessary, maybe that it wasn't, but that it was sad in any case. It's all about looking back and contemplating the calamity.
If the movies we're seeing now are an indication, this new sub-genre of anti-war movies made during a war are made with one intent -- to stop the war. They don't look back with sadness. They're angry and provocative and raw and have the quality that newspapers are supposed to have, an urgency that suggests that we were so anxious to say all this that we said it fast, and the ink's still wet. This is new in movies and new in America.
Actually, the government was so in cahoots with Hollywood in the '40s and '50s that no anti-war movies could have been made during either mid-century war, and Woodrow Wilson (not a personal favorite) would have arrested anyone who released an anti-war movie during World War I. He would have called it "sedition," which is the tyrant's word for free speech they don't like. (If you turn on talk radio and hear the word "sedition," it automatically means the person talking is a nut. Good shorthand.) So anyway, for all the assaults on free speech, it says something that this kind of movie can be made these days.
What it says may be open to discussion. But it says something.
Wars and War Movies
Six or seven years after wars end, the media starts saying things like, "Actually we shouldn't have been taken in by all that Golf of Tonkin stuff" and Hollywood chimes in with anti-war films.
The tradition of anti-war films coming out six or seven years AFTER a war was established in 1925 with THE BIG PARADE, which spawned a series of World War I films that lasted through the early 1930s. At first these were movies that looked back with sadness on what had happened. Then gradually they became cautionary films that looked back really as a way of warning about the possible terrors to come in a second World War.
This fear of another World War spawned a series of great pacifist films, including ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT, THE DAWN PATROL, ACES OF ACES, BROKEN LULLABY and, my favorite, THE EAGLE AND THE HAWK, about the most pacifist war film ever made in America, although REDACTED, which opens Friday, gives it a run for its money.
I don't think we really had any anti-World War II movies. Korea may have come too soon for that to happen, or maybe WW2 was just too unambiguously necessary.
But Vietnam, which ended in January '73 (ended for us, at least) resulted in THE DEER HUNTER in 1978, APOCALYPSE NOW the following year, and in the 1980s CASUALTIES OF WAR, PLATOON, BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY and I'm sure others. There were also Vietnam themed movies, like COMING HOME.
The first Gulf War, which began and ended in 1991, gave us COURAGE UNDER FIRE (1996), though that was not exactly an anti-war movie, and the more recent JARHEAD.
From a film history angle, what's interesting about this current war is that the anti-war films are starting already, with the war still going on. LIONS FOR LAMBS is all about the war and features battle scenes, but REDACTED goes way beyond that. It's a fictional documentary that follows soldiers (played by actors) as they go about their tasks in Iraq.
Anti-war movies made AFTER a war look back sadly on the loss of life. They assume a certain consensus within the audience, maybe that the war was necessary, maybe that it wasn't, but that it was sad in any case. It's all about looking back and contemplating the calamity.
If the movies we're seeing now are an indication, this new sub-genre of anti-war movies made during a war are made with one intent -- to stop the war. They don't look back with sadness. They're angry and provocative and raw and have the quality that newspapers are supposed to have, an urgency that suggests that we were so anxious to say all this that we said it fast, and the ink's still wet. This is new in movies and new in America.
Actually, the government was so in cahoots with Hollywood in the '40s and '50s that no anti-war movies could have been made during either mid-century war, and Woodrow Wilson (not a personal favorite) would have arrested anyone who released an anti-war movie during World War I. He would have called it "sedition," which is the tyrant's word for free speech they don't like. (If you turn on talk radio and hear the word "sedition," it automatically means the person talking is a nut. Good shorthand.) So anyway, for all the assaults on free speech, it says something that this kind of movie can be made these days.
What it says may be open to discussion. But it says something.
11-29-07, 08:47 AM
#279
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
It's comments like toddly6666's that piss me off....as I stated, apparently all on the right are just a bunch of ignorant country bumpkins, and he proved my point. That's the argument I always here, "you watch Fox...you listen to Rush...YOU'RE BRAINWASHED!!" How exactly, I don't know...which is weird, because I use to be liberal, now I'm not. I guess I was brainwashed of my own volition, right? But what do I know, I'm too stupid to think for myself...I better call Limbaugh so he can tell me what to do *DUUUUUURRRRR*
As I've also stated, ideology is what is it. This debate will never end. I guess we're all "closed-minded" and "brainwashed".
Actually, isn't the term close-minded? But what do I know, I'm just an ignorant red-stater from fly-over country. I'm surprised I'm allowed to vote. Man I'm stoooopid.
As I've also stated, ideology is what is it. This debate will never end. I guess we're all "closed-minded" and "brainwashed".
Actually, isn't the term close-minded? But what do I know, I'm just an ignorant red-stater from fly-over country. I'm surprised I'm allowed to vote. Man I'm stoooopid.
Again, just to stress - I hadn't said any of that, and in fact chastised Toddly for saying it. I think we've done a very good job, overall, of remaining civil while thoughtfully discussing the issue, rather than personally attacking or dismissing.
It's a shame that things are so "Red State/Blue State" these days. People are so locked into ideology and so headstrong about considering members of the other party as their enemy instead of opposition. It didn't used to be like that. Left or Right, at the end of a debate, the opponents would go have brandy together. Somehow I doubt that happens today.
I'm a liberal, but I don't swallow the party line hook, line and sinker. There are some disagreements I have with my fellow Democrats. There's more that unites us as a people than divides us and it's ashame that what divides us is all that is focused on.
-Doc
Last edited by Doc MacGyver; 11-29-07 at 10:37 AM.
11-29-07, 10:08 AM
#280
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Americans want pro-war movies and anti-war/USA films. What's the problem with having both? Just because an ignorant brainwashed close-minded, as well as redneck country-bumpkin red-state, Republican doesn't want anti-war/USA films, it doesn't mean others don't want them. I don't want to see Mary Kate Ashley and Hillary/Halley Duff movies, but I don't say "hey, we don't want your teenie bopper films, leave the country, stop making them, you are evil hollywood for making them, blah blah blah." Just don't watch them. You know that there is a group of people that do enjoy them. So let it be. America should be making all types of films whether you like it or not.
The original post just sounds a little too much like "we don't want your kind here, you jews, blacks, homos, etc. You get on and git. Keep on walkin', boy, we don't take to people like ya'll. You come back and we'll string ya'll up, ya hear" (spit)
The original post just sounds a little too much like "we don't want your kind here, you jews, blacks, homos, etc. You get on and git. Keep on walkin', boy, we don't take to people like ya'll. You come back and we'll string ya'll up, ya hear" (spit)
Last edited by toddly6666; 11-29-07 at 10:10 AM.
11-29-07, 10:27 AM
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Doc,
That was well said, and I agree with you.
Just for the record, I joined DVD Talk over these movies… particularly Redacted. I’m not the only Conservative to express anger and disgust. But it isn’t completely personal with us… though we have every right to react to these films.
The real problem is going to be the effect this garbage has once it gets into the enemies hands.
The above article/blog is correct:
>>> If the movies we're seeing now are an indication, this new sub-genre of anti-war movies made during a war are made with one intent -- to stop the war. They don't look back with sadness. They're angry and provocative and raw and have the quality that newspapers are supposed to have, an urgency that suggests that we were so anxious to say all this that we said it fast, and the ink's still wet. This is new in movies and new in America.
I am of course very pleased the movies have tanked here. But foreign DVD sales…
De Palma is a borderline traitor. He has used his precious right… to undermine America’s efforts abroad. Merely staying out of the theatre on this one falls way short. If not one more American sees this film, it wont matter. The damage is done now.
That was well said, and I agree with you.
Just for the record, I joined DVD Talk over these movies… particularly Redacted. I’m not the only Conservative to express anger and disgust. But it isn’t completely personal with us… though we have every right to react to these films.
The real problem is going to be the effect this garbage has once it gets into the enemies hands.
The above article/blog is correct:
>>> If the movies we're seeing now are an indication, this new sub-genre of anti-war movies made during a war are made with one intent -- to stop the war. They don't look back with sadness. They're angry and provocative and raw and have the quality that newspapers are supposed to have, an urgency that suggests that we were so anxious to say all this that we said it fast, and the ink's still wet. This is new in movies and new in America.
I am of course very pleased the movies have tanked here. But foreign DVD sales…
De Palma is a borderline traitor. He has used his precious right… to undermine America’s efforts abroad. Merely staying out of the theatre on this one falls way short. If not one more American sees this film, it wont matter. The damage is done now.
11-29-07, 10:36 AM
#282
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Toddly,
You are an emotional wreck. Have you ever stepped outside your bubble? Can you see past your nose?
>>> The original post just sounds a little too much like "we don't want your kind here, you jews, blacks, homos, etc. You get on and git. Keep on walkin', boy, we don't take to people like ya'll. You come back and we'll string ya'll up, ya hear" (spit)
This is bigoted hogwash. You should get some tolerance.
I have to go to <work> now.
You are an emotional wreck. Have you ever stepped outside your bubble? Can you see past your nose?
>>> The original post just sounds a little too much like "we don't want your kind here, you jews, blacks, homos, etc. You get on and git. Keep on walkin', boy, we don't take to people like ya'll. You come back and we'll string ya'll up, ya hear" (spit)
This is bigoted hogwash. You should get some tolerance.
I have to go to <work> now.
11-29-07, 10:48 AM
#283
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Stevie, obviously I don't think it's a stretch to say that we have differing philosophies and ideologies. But to call De Palma a traitor is too much. He disagrees wholeheartedly with this war (as do I and many, many other Americans) and he's showing how the confusion, violence and sense of purposelessness some (not all) of the soldiers are feeling can translate into unfortunate, even horrendous acts. This is true of all wars, but with Black Water mercs running around over there with no oversight and the American troops feeling like underpaid cops with tied hands and a target on their back, it is an especially heinous situation.
Films are meant to be thought-provoking. They are meant to be discussed. We shouldn't politically assassinate the makers of these films for expressing their feelings on a subject through their art - that is their RIGHT as an American citizen under the 1st Ammendment.
It's like I tell my cousin everytime he proclaims Armegeddon his favorite movie.
"I may not agree with what you say, sir, but I shall defend with my life your right to say it."
Toddly - I can see what you mean about the first post. The topic heading does sound slightly reactionary and misinformed. That being said, going on a diatribe of cultural and regional slurs does nothing but weaken your argument. Don't abandon the highground, dude. Delving into personal attacks does absolutely nothing for your cause. That's a lesson a certain President should learn when he starts sabre-rattling about Iran.
-Doc
Films are meant to be thought-provoking. They are meant to be discussed. We shouldn't politically assassinate the makers of these films for expressing their feelings on a subject through their art - that is their RIGHT as an American citizen under the 1st Ammendment.
It's like I tell my cousin everytime he proclaims Armegeddon his favorite movie.
"I may not agree with what you say, sir, but I shall defend with my life your right to say it."Toddly - I can see what you mean about the first post. The topic heading does sound slightly reactionary and misinformed. That being said, going on a diatribe of cultural and regional slurs does nothing but weaken your argument. Don't abandon the highground, dude. Delving into personal attacks does absolutely nothing for your cause. That's a lesson a certain President should learn when he starts sabre-rattling about Iran.
-Doc
Last edited by Doc MacGyver; 11-29-07 at 10:51 AM.
11-29-07, 11:12 AM
#284
Originally Posted by StevieRayFan
The real problem is going to be the effect this garbage has once it gets into the enemies hands.
11-29-07, 12:05 PM
#285
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StevieRayFan,
livin' in a bubble? Well, I sure as heck ain't leavin' my winebego, if that's what yer callin' my bubble. It's got a fridge filled with beer, and I got a lot of animal heads on the walls. It's more beautiful than ma' 15-year ol' wife...If I had ma way, I would tell our wonderful genius prez, Georgie Boy, to go on and kick out all them anti-USA filmmakers. Go to France Speilberg! Go to Canada! Go on, git! We don't need ya. We need good ol' fashioned american films like The Marine and true 100 percent American filmmakers such as Uwe Boll...Anti-USA/War movies should only be made by axis of evil countries such as Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Russia, France, and one of 'em Koreas...
livin' in a bubble? Well, I sure as heck ain't leavin' my winebego, if that's what yer callin' my bubble. It's got a fridge filled with beer, and I got a lot of animal heads on the walls. It's more beautiful than ma' 15-year ol' wife...If I had ma way, I would tell our wonderful genius prez, Georgie Boy, to go on and kick out all them anti-USA filmmakers. Go to France Speilberg! Go to Canada! Go on, git! We don't need ya. We need good ol' fashioned american films like The Marine and true 100 percent American filmmakers such as Uwe Boll...Anti-USA/War movies should only be made by axis of evil countries such as Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Russia, France, and one of 'em Koreas...
11-29-07, 03:49 PM
#287
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It's pointless to argue with anyone who says or agrees with "we don't want Hollywood anti-usa/anti-war movies." If one is insulted by Hollywood making our brave soldiers look bad, or making our govt. and war-mongering look evil, you are gonna have to learn to take a bit of critism. Get over yourself and your pride. Everything in life can be praised and critisized.
Is the topic this: Are people upset with the release of any anti-war/anti-USA film or are people just upset with the recent "trend" of so many anti-war/anti-USA films?
Is the topic this: Are people upset with the release of any anti-war/anti-USA film or are people just upset with the recent "trend" of so many anti-war/anti-USA films?
11-29-07, 03:58 PM
#288
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by StevieRayFan
an urgency that suggests that we were so anxious to say all this that we said it fast, and the ink's still wet. This is new in movies and new in America.
The above does not fall under the 10% that's an exception.
11-29-07, 04:44 PM
#289
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by toddly6666
The original post just sounds a little too much like "we don't want your kind here, you jews, blacks, homos, etc. You get on and git. Keep on walkin', boy, we don't take to people like ya'll. You come back and we'll string ya'll up, ya hear" (spit)
11-29-07, 04:44 PM
#290
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
What was the last Pro-War movie made, anyway? Even about WWII??
11-29-07, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by StevieRayFan
De Palma is a borderline traitor. He has used his precious right… to undermine America’s efforts abroad. Merely staying out of the theatre on this one falls way short. If not one more American sees this film, it wont matter. The damage is done now.
11-29-07, 05:19 PM
#294
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by toddly6666
KVRDAVE,
I think this statement says far more about your thought process than the OP.
That's just like saying, "if you smelt it, you delt it."
I think this statement says far more about your thought process than the OP.
That's just like saying, "if you smelt it, you delt it."
I was actually saying the same thing.
11-29-07, 05:50 PM
#297
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by toddly6666
USA! USA! USA! High five!
This post reminds me to show a poster of a good ol' fashioned "patriotic" USA film:
This post reminds me to show a poster of a good ol' fashioned "patriotic" USA film:
I have now seen enough and see what I am up against.
The fact that there is no evidence only proves how deep the conspiracy is!!!
11-29-07, 06:20 PM
#298
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by toddly6666
StevieRayFan,
livin' in a bubble? Well, I sure as heck ain't leavin' my winebego, if that's what yer callin' my bubble. It's got a fridge filled with beer, and I got a lot of animal heads on the walls. It's more beautiful than ma' 15-year ol' wife...If I had ma way, I would tell our wonderful genius prez, Georgie Boy, to go on and kick out all them anti-USA filmmakers. Go to France Speilberg! Go to Canada! Go on, git! We don't need ya. We need good ol' fashioned american films like The Marine and true 100 percent American filmmakers such as Uwe Boll...Anti-USA/War movies should only be made by axis of evil countries such as Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Russia, France, and one of 'em Koreas...
livin' in a bubble? Well, I sure as heck ain't leavin' my winebego, if that's what yer callin' my bubble. It's got a fridge filled with beer, and I got a lot of animal heads on the walls. It's more beautiful than ma' 15-year ol' wife...If I had ma way, I would tell our wonderful genius prez, Georgie Boy, to go on and kick out all them anti-USA filmmakers. Go to France Speilberg! Go to Canada! Go on, git! We don't need ya. We need good ol' fashioned american films like The Marine and true 100 percent American filmmakers such as Uwe Boll...Anti-USA/War movies should only be made by axis of evil countries such as Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Russia, France, and one of 'em Koreas...
Stereotype much?
Question for a mod...I don't really consider this guy's stereotyping to be a personal insult, with that being said, how about an "eye for an eye"...tit-for-tat as they use to say?
Last edited by MartinBlank; 11-29-07 at 06:29 PM.
11-29-07, 07:21 PM
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MartinBlank, do you understand sarcasm? I was making fun of the worst kind of american. A redneck. There may be some Republicans in here, but I don't think there are any serious rednecks in here... and just to avoid confusion, i'm the liberal democrat one, and I love anti-war/anti-USA movies just to clarify things. I think people are getting mixed up, because so many are being sarcastic in here...
On a serious note, once again, i'm going to say it again - the great thing about USA is that there is freedom to make all kinds of films - anti-war/usa ones to pro-war ones. And frankly I enjoy most of them. You don't want USA to get to a point like in Russia where the govt. gets involved with deciding what gets produced and what doesn't get produced in film/tv. All of Russian tv is now owned by the govt. and they got rid of any democratic, open-opinion shows. It's all controlled by the govt. If one even makes a hint of critisizing Russia, the tv/film producers could get in massive trouble or even worse, get beaten up or killed. USA may have propaganda films and tv shows, but they also have the opposite as well. USA has an equal amount of media/tv/film which shows both sides.
On a serious note, once again, i'm going to say it again - the great thing about USA is that there is freedom to make all kinds of films - anti-war/usa ones to pro-war ones. And frankly I enjoy most of them. You don't want USA to get to a point like in Russia where the govt. gets involved with deciding what gets produced and what doesn't get produced in film/tv. All of Russian tv is now owned by the govt. and they got rid of any democratic, open-opinion shows. It's all controlled by the govt. If one even makes a hint of critisizing Russia, the tv/film producers could get in massive trouble or even worse, get beaten up or killed. USA may have propaganda films and tv shows, but they also have the opposite as well. USA has an equal amount of media/tv/film which shows both sides.
Last edited by toddly6666; 11-29-07 at 07:35 PM.
11-29-07, 10:00 PM
#300
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by toddly6666
MartinBlank, do you understand sarcasm? I was making fun of the worst kind of american. A redneck. There may be some Republicans in here, but I don't think there are any serious rednecks in here... and just to avoid confusion, i'm the liberal democrat one, and I love anti-war/anti-USA movies just to clarify things. I think people are getting mixed up, because so many are being sarcastic in here...
For the record, most would consider me a redneck, hick, or any similar term you need to use to minimize my people.
