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Last Crusade
Temple was too dark (Lucas acknowledges that he was in a bad place in his personal life (was going through a divorce) when he wrote the screenplay) |
Last Crusade....it's like a bad penny, it always turns up.
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I think the chemistry between Ford and Connery is great in Crusade..?
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^same here
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Definitely going with Temple. Hell, I'd still choose Temple of Doom if Raiders were on the list, too. :)
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Crusade.. not even close
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Originally Posted by TheMadMonk
Holy Grail > Rocks with scratches on them.
What's Indy searching for in Temple? Why? Who cares? It's hard to have an emotional attachment to the character when you don't really care about his motivations and what is going on. Crusade by a mile. |
Temple by far. And don't get me wrong, I love Crusade in spite of its many flaws(kinda like how I feel about Return of the Jedi).
But Williams' score is one of his best, Short Round is a great sidekick, I love the dark tone of the film(even if Spielberg and Lucas seem ashamed of it now), Mola Ram is the series' best villain, and the last 30 minutes are a nonstop rollercoaster ride(at times literally). Hell, I even like the Willie Scott character. I'm sick of people bitching about her not being like Marion. No kidding, folks! She's supposed to be the exact opposite of Marion. That's the whole point. At least she had a personality which is more than I can say for the bland Jenny Flex....errrr, Elsa Schnieder in Crusade. My only real complaint with Temple of Doom is that it's set a year before Raiders. Yet in Raiders, Indy tells Marcus Brody that he doesn't believe in magic or hocus pocus. Funny considering a year earlier, he saw a dude get his heart ripped out while still alive and ended up being possessed by an evil spirit after drinking blood. Of course this wouldn't be the last time Lucas made a prequel that contradicted its predecessor.;) |
Crusade for me. Kate Capshaw ruined ToD. Nevertheless, I liked Crusade better anyway. Felt more epic than ToD and fewer slow spots.
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Last Crusade is my fav. overall. I could watch that just about any time.
By the way, I remember back in the days of laserdisks I was at a suncoast or someplace and noticed the laserdisk for Last Crusade and there's a shot on the back of Indy (when he's tied to the chair with his father) and there's a giant turantula on his chest. I don't remember seeing this in the making of or supplemental stuff from the dvd. Anyone have the laserdisk or know what I'm talking about? |
Originally Posted by dick_grayson
Last Crusade is my fav. overall. I could watch that just about any time.
By the way, I remember back in the days of laserdisks I was at a suncoast or someplace and noticed the laserdisk for Last Crusade and there's a shot on the back of Indy (when he's tied to the chair with his father) and there's a giant turantula on his chest. I don't remember seeing this in the making of or supplemental stuff from the dvd. Anyone have the laserdisk or know what I'm talking about? |
Wow! Surprised by all the love for "Doom". I know it made a shit load of money, but I've seen nothing but people bashing it online up until now. Personally, I hated it. Loved "Crusade" though.
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I agree with the article below -
The argument in favor of Temple of Doom: Most people hate it. I sort of love it. In fact, if I feel like spinning an Indy movie in the background in the years to come, I can pretty much guarantee that it will be the last 40 minutes of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Mind you, I'll be the first to admit that Temple of Doom has deeply embedded problems, and that there are popular reasons for disliking it — even hating it. The dialogue is ham-fisted. (I invariably cringe during the "What are you — a lion tamer?"/"I'm allowing you to tag along" exchange. "A lion." "Allowing." A homophone! I get it!) It's surprisingly brutal in the middle. In women's-lib terms, Kate Capshaw's scream-queen Willie Scott is such a step backward from Marion Ravenwood that I'm mildly surprised NOW didn't picket the screenings. (The future Mrs. Spielberg, God bless her, got handed a terribly written role — Willie's the shrieking Jar-Jar of the Indiana Jones series.) And let's not even get into the film's retro-colonialist overtones (which I find sort of perversely funny, but still). And the film is so different from its predecessor — confined largely to one locale, not as sophisticated or quest-driven, and very nearly Satanic in its depictions of evil — that it really couldn't help but let viewers down. Still, despite all that, I managed to arrived at the following list of reasons to love the flick: 1. That unimpeachably awesome opening fight over the diamond and antidote, which contains tributes to classic musicals and Hitchcock and just absolutely rocks the house; 2. Ke Huy Kwan as Short Round, who — despite being handed cute-kid dialogue that includes the lines "Hold onto your potatoes!" and "You call him Doctah Jones, DOLL!" — is quite possibly the most likeable and least obtrusive child sidekick in movie history. Check out the wonderful, genuinely warm give-and-take between Kwan and Ford as they play poker or exchange hats; 3. That "Nice try, Lao Che!" visual gag; 4. Harrison Ford's terrific performance — arguably his best as Jones. I love how Indy stars out as a total greedy asshole, with strong shades of Bogart in Treasure of Sierra Madre, and how there's a distinct character arc as he evolves into a Pied-Piper/holy avenger; 5. The movie's look — again, the best in the series — with its striking wide-angle close ups of Indy's face and strong use of reds and shadows. Temple of Doom is a manual on how to use color in film, no joke. This movie contains Spielberg's busiest frames, and it's all beautiful. It's a pornography of cinematography. 6. John Williams' score, which is among his very best — expanding richly on the original and adding wonderful themes for Short Round and the slave children; 7. Vampire bats! Severed thumbs! 8. The matte paintings of Pankot Palace, which are among the best matte paintings ever; 9. The sexy, playful, totally '80s, beautifully edited cat-and-mouse sequence where way-horny Indy and Willie are trying to out-wait each other, only to have the flirtation interrupted by a Thuggee assassin. (How can you not love the way that thug steps out of that wall mural?); 10. The super-icky, super-taut bug-tunnel and death-trap set piece, which is a perfect transition between the palace and the Temple of Doom and which very nearly kicks the ass of the Well of Souls sequence (it certainly makes your skin crawl more) and features that great closing gag where Indy grabs his hat as the door's closing; 11. The way the movie shifts so abruptly into scenes of human sacrifice and child cruelty. I'm sorry, I just love what a cinema bomb Spielberg and Lucas drop here: Yes, the horror's laid on a bit thick, but come on — how totally cathartic are those last 40 minutes as a result, when Indy snaps out of the Black Sleep of Kali and dishes out the hurt to faceless Thuggee goons? 12. That little 1940s tip of the hat Indy gives to that cobra statue as he's stealing the stones — a perfect Bogart moment; 13. Amrish Puri as Mola Ram — by far the scariest and most depraved villain in the series. He's mindlessly scary like Orcs are scary, you know? He looks like what Abe Vigoda would look like if he were a sadistic Indian child molester; 14. The way Indiana Jones doesn't just look drugged when he's in the Black Sleep of Kali, but instead looks like he's really into all the sadism and blood, like he's actually tapped into some dark part of his personality that was there all along; 15. And, best of all, the movie's final 40 minutes, which are inventive and cathartic and full of righteous fury and pain and thrilling action — it's Lucas and Spielberg working out all their action-geek demons without apology, and God bless 'em for it. I mean, has any movie ever piled one action sequence on top of the next so successfully? That voodoo conveyor-belt fight followed by the mine-car chase followed by the water tunnel followed by the dual-swordsman tango followed by the rope-bridge blowout? With all kinds of semi-perverse shots like the one where both Indy and Short Round are beating the crap out of age-appropriate foes? Really. The movie's aged well. Better than you might think. Give it a second chance. It's total geek crack. Now, now. I wouldn't dare to blanket-slag Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade; in fact, I actually softened on it quite a bit after I turned 30, which I'm sure should disturb me but doesn't. Certainly, there's some wonderful chemistry between Ford and Sean Connery, who plays dotty, arrogant Dr. Jones paterfamilias (a casting coup, that). And River Phoenix does an uncanny and quite funny Harrison Ford impression, glaring and smirking as young Indiana Jones (who, apparently, acquired his whip, hat, fear of snakes and chin scar in a single afternoon in 1912). And kudos to the late Jeffrey Boam for writing some lively, character-driven, funny dialogue; it comes as a relief after the spoken-word atrocities wrought by Katz and Huyck. And that largely improvised action sequence with the WWI tank? Delicious. (Well, mostly delicious; see below.) But, all that said: Despite its clearly being Spielberg's favorite and most personal film in the series — unresolved Daddy issues and all — Last Crusade commits two filmic sins I won't readily forgive: 1. It resorts to mockery. It's one thing when a sequel tweaks its characters a little — but Last Crusade revels in making fools of its protagonists, to the degree that it takes me out of the movie and undermines any sense of danger the film may hold. While I generally enjoy the Oedipal dynamic between Papa and Junior Jones, there's just one too many moments for my taste where Henry makes Indiana look like a total jackass. And don't even get me started about what they did to Marcus Brody: In Raiders, Brody is an obvious mentor to Indy and no minor badass himself; as he says, he's only five years too old to have undertaken the quest for the Ark himself. But in Last Crusade, Brody's a doddering buffoon, a drunk with Alzheimer's, a man who gets lost in his own museum. Watch how his comedy "bits" with Sean Connery almost derail any tension to be had in the desert battle with the tank. It's almost unforgivable. And Sallah, so resourceful and charming and filled with music in the first film, is kind of a doofus here, stealing camels for his relatives and otherwise serving as wacky-Arab comic relief. 2. The movie contains very few actual thrills. In Raiders, Indiana Jones took on sadists, Nazis and a fierce competitor (not to mention a pissed-off ex-girlfriend). In Temple of Doom, he fell into a subterranean hell and took on the very minions of Kali. In Last Crusade, he takes on a bumbling group of idiots — and, as a result, very little of the film's action leads me to believe that Indiana Jones is in any real danger. Seriously. Who are our bad guys here? Guys in fezzes? A Nazi commander out of a Mel Brooks movie? And, dear Lord, I very nearly forget that Julian Glover is even in the damned thing, and he plays the bad guy who gets the supernatural-disintegration treatment! Am I really supposed to consider this British-channeling-American slice of Wonder Bread a threat? Get back in your AT-AT, General Veers! |
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
I'm going for Last Crusade. Indy vs. Nazis beats Indy vs. Child Slave runners any day.
Temple of Doom: pluses - - Bridge fight - Short Round - Final Scene where Indy returns to the village Spoiler:
negatives- - Willie - dinner scene - ripping out of still beating heart - No Nazis Last Crusade: Pluses- - Nazis :up: - revealing Indy's namesake and reason for fear of snakes - Blimp ride and subsequent bi-plane ride - Tank fight - kept with religious artifact Negatives- - old knight at the end - a bit too slapsticky in places - Brody acts like a boob |
I like Temple of Doom the most, but Crusade is good too. There are just too many more memorable lines in Temple than in Crusade. I like Crusade a lot too because I haven't watched it as many times as Raiders and Temple. Everytime I re-watch Crusade, I find something new in it to enjoy.
But out of all three, I liked how Temple of Doom was most realistic - I'll believe a voodoo-type cult with a leader that can rip out a heart still beating, than Raider's ghosts or Crusade's old knight. The only thing I truly didn't believe possible was the air-raft jump out of the airplane (I wish it was possible though). |
I was under the impression that Temple of Doom was so poorly recieved that it almost killed the franchise. Despite some very postitive memorable elements I personally think it is the worst of the three by a decent margin. For me it's just not as enjoyable as a whole to watch as the other two, which I rank about equally.
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Originally Posted by Doughboy
Hell, I even like the Willie Scott character. I'm sick of people bitching about her not being like Marion. No kidding, folks! She's supposed to be the exact opposite of Marion. That's the whole point. At least she had a personality which is more than I can say for the bland Jenny Flex....errrr, Elsa Schnieder in Crusade.
And echoing everyone else's praise for Mola Ram - scariest Indy Villain period. |
That whiney, annoying Sean Connery ruined LAST for me.
He should have been more of a tough take charge man instead of .. an old whiney man. |
Loved both but would favor slightly towards Temple of Doom as it retained the "serials"-type of film just like Gunga Din.
Last Crusade was great but like some have mentioned, I didn't like the fact that they made Brody out to be some kind of a retard. To think that in Raiders, Brody actually told Indy to some degree "10 years younger, I would've gone after it myself" referring to the lost ark. |
Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
I watched Temple of doom a lot more when I was a kid but hands down to Last Crusade
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Last Crusade for me.
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Great read on that article. "nazi commander out of a Mel Brooks movie" :lol:
I never saw Crusade as another Raiders, just in content. Some similar structured scenes, Brody/Sallah, and Nazis, that's where it ends. Temple on the other hand seems to be closer to Raiders in spirit, recapturing that certain razor-sharpness and intensity. Another thing is the first two had exotic rough locales, Raiders had the Amazon, Egypt, Mediterranean, Temple had Shanghai and India, Crusade had blandness... Utah, Europe, and the Middle East as a suspiciously US shrub desert. Also that glum score, holy biblical stuff. Give me Temple's rousing score anytime! |
Crusade, because as someone mentioned earlier, it just felt more epic. I like the idea of Indy going after historical artifacts and the hunt across continents.
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Temple of Doom.
I love all three movies -- but Temple of Doom is just two-hours of non-stop ass kicking. |
Temple for me, even though Kate Capshaw annoys the fuck out of me everytime she's on screen. If it wasn't for her I'd give the film 10/10, instead it just gets a 9.
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