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Old 10-12-05 | 02:36 AM
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Just saw it today with my roomate. We both hated it. I honestly don't see whats so appealing about it. It was confusing, stupid and incredibly cliche. I will never understand what anyone sees in Joss Whedon material
Old 10-12-05 | 05:11 AM
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Old 10-12-05 | 08:49 AM
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I have never seen Buffy, Angel, Firefly, or any other Whedon stuff, I have always perceived his stuff to be like star trek (in other words highly appealing to a small niche). But I thought this movie was pretty sweet, and look forward to more. I plan to tivo some firefly, and maybe watch Buffy at some point.
Old 10-12-05 | 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by whynotsmile
Just saw it today with my roomate. We both hated it. I honestly don't see whats so appealing about it. It was confusing, stupid and incredibly cliche. I will never understand what anyone sees in Joss Whedon material
What was confusing about it?
Old 10-12-05 | 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DodgingCars
What was confusing about it?
Maybe he saw a different movie than we did.
Old 10-12-05 | 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ArchibaldTuttle
I have never seen Buffy, Angel, Firefly, or any other Whedon stuff, I have always perceived his stuff to be like star trek (in other words highly appealing to a small niche). But I thought this movie was pretty sweet, and look forward to more. I plan to tivo some firefly, and maybe watch Buffy at some point.
Please try to watch Firefly and Buffy in order. Each episode builds on the character development of previous ones and watching them at random may make them seem a hopeless mess. This is especially true for Buffy and it is seven seasons long. Buffy and Firefly are not like some other shows where each episode can pretty much stand alone.

My 2¢.
Old 10-13-05 | 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by valkyrie
Maybe he saw a different movie than we did.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe it was just too smart for him, or he was too simple for it.
Old 10-13-05 | 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocketdog2000
That's what I was thinking. Maybe it was just too smart for him, or he was too simple for it.
oh bullshit. LIke I said, I haven't seen any of the episodes. They did a very poor job of bringing people who had not seen Firefly before into the story. But whatever. Being confusing to non fans is way down on the list of things wrong with this chud.
Old 10-13-05 | 04:39 AM
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Saw it last night and hugely enjoyed it. My friend not so much, she thought it wasn't well acted and made some other points about the film I cannot be bothered to talk about. I have never seen the firefly series and was watching it based on the overly positive reviews in the UK film magazines how loved it. Found it abit slow in the middle ( a thing I find in most star wars films as well). But I felt Joss, on his debut, directed very well with some quite good fight and CG scenes. I thought the end battle was better then the opening battle on ROTS. I also loved the "I read a poem once, don't faint" line.
Old 10-13-05 | 08:45 AM
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Saw it last night. best friend loved it (she loves angel and buffy). I, on the other hand, fell asleep in the middle of it.

Just don't see the appeal at all.

Oh, and the theater was practically empty.
Old 10-13-05 | 08:49 AM
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jdslater1

I also loved the "I read a poem once, don't faint" line.
I like how he calls her "little albatross" at the end too.

das
Old 10-13-05 | 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by whynotsmile
oh bullshit. LIke I said, I haven't seen any of the episodes. They did a very poor job of bringing people who had not seen Firefly before into the story. But whatever. Being confusing to non fans is way down on the list of things wrong with this chud.
Hell, I thought more got explained in those first five minutes than the entire TV show. I thought the backstory was creatively (and thoroughly) retold and I really don't understand where else they could have brought people into the story without slowing the pace down to an absolute crawl. All the relationships are set up, the ones that aren't explicitly demonstrated are given raging undercurrents and even so, none of these particularly impacted the plot of Serenity -- which stood completely on its own.

And since you choose to criticize this movie through entirely baseless emotional blather, without any real basis of discussion, you're going to irritate the many Firefly/Serenity fans in this thread who are in turn going to attack you personally. It is the cycle of life. And in a thread ABOUT what you attack, you're going to be outnumbered. And you're probably going to just storm off in a huff and wonder why we're all such assholes.
Old 10-13-05 | 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by animalmystic
Got a quick question about a part in Serenity. What is on the screen when River looks at the TV? Is it a commercial? Cartoon? TV show? Wash makes reference to it, something like the Fruity Odie Bar?? I did a Google search and didn't find shit. can somebody explain what this is? Also was this ever mentioned/featured in the Firefly TV show at all? Thanks
It was a commercial for Fruity Oaty Bars it was just one of many random ads that had the trigger to set River off encoded into it.
Old 10-13-05 | 09:45 AM
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jdpatri

Hell, I thought more got explained in those first five minutes than the entire TV show. I thought the backstory was creatively (and thoroughly) retold and I really don't understand where else they could have brought people into the story without slowing the pace down to an absolute crawl. All the relationships are set up, the ones that aren't explicitly demonstrated are given raging undercurrents and even so, none of these particularly impacted the plot of Serenity -- which stood completely on its own.
I'm not going to question the intelligence of someone who found it confusing (we all see things differently), but I do agree with this assessment. Some character relationships are lost, and the introduction of Simon carries a different weight if you already know who he is, but from a plot perspective, it seemed like they set it up pretty easily for some random viewer to get the idea very quickly. I've sent a few friends to it who had never seen the series, and the only questions I got were things like, "So that guy's name is 'Jayne'?" or "Were Mal and Inara married or something?" As far as the plot, though, I haven't heard of any confusion.

Btw, shameless request for people to vote for Firefly here.

das
Old 10-13-05 | 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by travlr
It was a commercial for Fruity Oaty Bars it was just one of many random ads that had the trigger to set River off encoded into it.
Haven't seen the film yet, but I think that statement might have qualified for spoiler tags.
Old 10-13-05 | 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by whynotsmile
Just saw it today with my roomate. We both hated it. I honestly don't see whats so appealing about it. It was confusing, stupid and incredibly cliche. I will never understand what anyone sees in Joss Whedon material
Don't hold back now.
Though Serenity wasnt the best Sci Fi movie it certainly was better than a ton of movies released this year. Stupid? Confusing? Puhleeze.
Old 10-13-05 | 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by whynotsmile
oh bullshit. LIke I said, I haven't seen any of the episodes. They did a very poor job of bringing people who had not seen Firefly before into the story. But whatever. Being confusing to non fans is way down on the list of things wrong with this chud.
The first act was chock full of exposition. Were you not paying attention? I can understand a n00b not comprehending the intricacies of some of the character relationships or some of the lesser characters' histories, but I think Joss did a pretty good job of telling the audience everything they needed to know to enjoy the movie.

Originally Posted by Toben
Haven't seen the film yet, but I think that statement might have qualified for spoiler tags.
The film has been out for nearly 3 weeks and it's quickly dropping. Anyone who wanted to see this has. And as far as spoilers go, you can tell from the trailers and commercials that River is triggered. Naming the commercial that does it has ZERO impact on the movie. It's barely a plot point.

Last edited by RogueScribner; 10-13-05 at 02:29 PM.
Old 10-13-05 | 03:11 PM
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My thoughts on the film, three weeks removed from seeing it, with spoiler tags (spoilers for "The Body" episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer as well as Serenity)

Spoiler:
I've now had a couple weeks to reflect on the film, and I think I decided that I kinda-sorta liked it, with reservations.

I think the major issue I had was the dialogue. Not having seen a lot of the show I was a little new to the universe, but still very familiar with Whedon's style (having seen every episode of Buffy and Angel and liking most of it... the fourth season fo Angel was awful, but other than that a pretty solid body of work). I think that his penchant for cutesy dialogue (using words like 'somnambulant' and having the ship's mechanic talk about 'nary anything betwixt my legs that wasn't battery operated' stand out for me as particulary bad decisions in scriptwriting) really hurt the film for me. I didn't know these characters, and having them talk like that made them seem like just that, characters -- not real people. On the other hand, there were a few moments that rang very true -- when Caleb (Nathan Fillion -- Mal maybe? not good on the names) and Animal Mother (Adam Baldwin) were in the ship and they had the exchange about "Do you think you can run this ship?" "Yes" "Well... you can't" -- that played very natural to me. But for every instance where things seemed natural there were about five where they seemed forced.

This is a trend with Joss though, because his writing is always somewhat hit or miss when taken on its own -- he's a brilliant collaborator, which why I think his work in series television thrives. When coupled with people like David Greenwalt, Jane Espenson, Marti Noxon, etc. his work stands out -- when given hours and hours of time to develop characters you get used to the way they talk in the Whedonverse. However, throwing the Firelfy/Serenity dialogue at a new viewer is jarring and made me acutely aware that I was watching a movie the whole time -- for me, great film makes you forget that. (The audience didn't help in that regard either -- loudly laughing at things that were marginally chuckle-worthy, clapping a lot, etc...) In regards to being taken out of the narrative, everytime I seemed to be getting into things something would happen either on or off screen that would take me out of the narrative -- reminds me of the my experience seeing Two Towers the first time -- even with the choppily-edited Rohan sequences in the theatrical cut, I'm getting into Helm's Deep, really being enveloped in the whole thing and Peter Jackson makes two crucial missteps that pull me out of the LotR world entirely -- first he uses the "Wilhelm Scream" way too prominently, showcases it practically and secondly he has Legolas "shield-board" down a set of steps. Hated it, couldn't get into the movie again, didn't see it again until the DVD hit (this from the guy who saw Fellowship like four times and did the 14+ hour marathon theatrical viewing of Fellowship:EE, TwoTowers:EE and Return of the King, and followed that up by seeing Return of the King again the next morning and again that weekend).

Anyway, back to Joss. I was really into the plot of the film, a lot of the aspects were nice and interesting -- I liked the bad guy a lot. The death of the pilot guy and the old black preacher guy really didn't do anything for me -- I realize that his is most likely because I didn't watch the show, but I seem to recall Joss saying that he wanted to make the movie work for folks who had never seen Firefly. I think he really failed at that when it came to making you care about the characters. The dialogue is part of that, but there are also a few things he did early on that just made me roll my eyes -- one that jumps out is the completely obvious crush that the mechanic girl has on the doctor guy. It was handled without any subtlety and clumsily, not what I'd expect from Joss who has written strong females roles very well in the past.

Writing aside, his direction was ok. Effects wise he had some very nice things going on. I was expecting a bit more from shot selections -- they were.. pedestrian is the best word I can think of -- uninspired. Having seen episodes of Buffy that Joss had directed (Hush, The Body, Once More... and the season 4 finale all come to mind) that played out like film school theme projects, I was expecting something similar from this film. I didn't get it. One of the interesting things about Alfred Hitchcock, who is certainly in my top ten as far as directors go -- maybe top five -- is that he would often play with the medium and make directorial choices simply to make a statement on some trendy aspect of film theory or gimmicky Hollywood thing going on. For example, "Dial M for Murder" -- Universal had decreed that Hitch make a movie in 3D. Hitch thought that was ridiculous and said "Ok, I'm going to do this one." The movie takes place entirely in one room. With Rope he experimented and did a film as one continuous take, much like a stage play, only cutting when the film ran out of the camera (once every 20 minutes). Vertigo (which, if you haven't seen, you should) is a direct commentary on an essay that places voyuerism as a sexual act that exists only in males -- Rear Window also deals with voyuerism, but on a much more straightforward level.

There is only one shot that stands out in my mind in Serenity -- whereas I can call up in my mind several shots from The Body at will -- Buffy coming in to the house, the way Joyce is laying on the couch on the edge of the frame, barely seen to the viewer and unseen to her daughter; the way Joss holds the frame steady as Buffy goes out to vomit -- leaving us trapped in the house as she gets a momentary escape; the vampire fight in the morgue at the end -- that episode is so brilliantly directed that it's hard for me to accept that it's directed by the same guy who helmed Serenity.

The one shot that does stick out in my from Serenity -- they're on the Reaver planet and they're beginning to see bodies, etc. The camera cuts to Animal Mother, and then starts circling around him again and again -- let me tell you, I really loved that shot the first time I saw it when it was at the end of Werner Herzog's "Aguirre: The Wrath of God." That Joss so shamelessly lifted this shot (you can call it homage, I consider it theft in this case -- because I don't think that shot needed to be in Joss's film -- I can see him watching Aguirre and saying "what a cool shot, I should use that somewhere" -- there's no purpose, no context for that shot to be in the film at that point). Again, another case where I was pulled out of the narrative.

So those are my collected thoughts on Serentiy and Joss. I think Wonder Woman is his next project -- I'm interested in seeing how he does with a character that is not his own in the context of a film (hopefully a better job than he did on the screenplay to Alien: Resurrection). We'll see.

And I realize now that it may seem like I'm trashing the movie, I'm not. It just wasn't nearly as good as I expected it to be, or as everyone is saying it is. Good story, but not a lot else worked for me. I think that Whedon is capable of much better work as a director. I gave it a B- or so because there were a lot of aspects that I liked... but I really have no desire to see it again.
Old 10-13-05 | 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RogueScribner
The film has been out for nearly 3 weeks and it's quickly dropping. Anyone who wanted to see this has. And as far as spoilers go, you can tell from the trailers and commercials that River is triggered. Naming the commercial that does it has ZERO impact on the movie. It's barely a plot point.
Agree to disagree. By that logic, any discussion of the details of a film out for more than 3 weeks does not require spoiler tags. But that doesn't correspond to what actually happens in the forums. As for that fact about River being obvious from the trailers, I don't think it is obvious. I have seen both trailers several times and I personally can't see anything in them that makes that point known. The trailers I saw were the ones up on jurassicpunk.com, so maybe they are somehow different. My point was that I had not yet seen the film, but that detail about River felt like something that I might not want to know before seeing the film.

Last edited by Toben; 10-13-05 at 03:24 PM.
Old 10-13-05 | 03:35 PM
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Overrated.

It has an imaginative spark, bounces with fun and is engaging enough not to make me feel like I've wasted my time, but overrated none the less. I liked some of the characters, but some just grated badly and acting was average overall, even though it was boosted by Joss Whedon's snappy dialogue. I rather liked Serenity's production values and art direction, plus I liked the cartoonish ship designs.

I thought the Reavers were a little blah; they just seemed to be a cross between the Kazons from Voyager and Orcs from LOTR. The fights are very reminiscant of the fights featured in Buffy and Angel, other Joss Whedon endevours.

I liked the Alliance and it was maddening that we only catch a relatively brief glimpse of their pristine fleet and gleaming military forces, in fact we didn't get enough indepth info about other aspects of Fire Fly's seemingly complex universe with it's space ports, eccentric settlements on barren worlds, anarchic trader planets and the highly ordered major worlds of the Alliance.

I was entertained by Serenity, but not massively impressed. I walked out of the cinema and felt liked I've only watched an average, competent action adventure film, and it certainly didn't change my life. Of course I wouldn't be mean and write off Serenity as overhyped trash, it was still a very entertaining and fun sci-fi film, but it's certainly not the second coming of Christ like some critics or sci-fi fans would say.

I wouldn't mind getting Serenity on DVD and wouldn't mind a second installment. But strike me dead, I actually preferred The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy more than Serenity, but that's just me.

Last edited by Cancer Man; 10-13-05 at 03:49 PM.
Old 10-13-05 | 06:47 PM
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It was a commercial for Fruity Oaty Bars it was just one of many random ads that had the trigger to set River off encoded into it.

Thanks travlr!

Didn't find much via Google....except parts of the lyrics...

"Fruity Oaty bars
makes a man out of a mouse.
Fruity Oaty bars
makes you bust out of your blouse."

Word
Old 10-13-05 | 07:46 PM
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I finally saw it today and I liked it a lot and will by the DVD.

FWIW: I've seen every aired episode of Firefly and have never seen Angel or Buffy.

<-- lights a rocket for those who are fallen.
Old 10-13-05 | 08:16 PM
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I saw it and liked it. The reavers weren't that original though. Sort of think they could have come up with something better.
Old 10-13-05 | 08:56 PM
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Sorry if anyone thought that was a spoiler but I thought it was obvious from the trailer and the question I was answering. I though the Reavers look could have been better but I thought their origin story was great.
Old 10-13-05 | 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by milo bloom
In Serenity it's on the
Spoiler:
Research and Rescue ship on Miranda


(Is this a spoiler thread?)
Spoiler:
It's also written on the "car" that Jayne looks into. The one he says didn't even crash.


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