Back to the Future 2 plot hole?
09-05-05 | 09:51 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by resinrats
Technically then the bad 1985 should not have existed since the Almanac was stolen back in 1955. Going by the fact that bad 1985 was created, it should have effected 2015 as well. Once Biff gave himself the book, it altered time so old Biff going into future would be the newly created timeline.
09-05-05 | 10:42 PM
#27
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you see...i told you when you open this can of worms it gets crazy....
rules that always should apply though...no matter what period of time you are in, your lifetime stays the same....so when marty leaves from 1985 to 2015 then he should not be old in 2015...that 30 years he is gone from time...back to the future does not work with the bill and ted formula of we have to remember to steal the keys...and all the sudden they are there. however its a movie...enjoy it
rules that always should apply though...no matter what period of time you are in, your lifetime stays the same....so when marty leaves from 1985 to 2015 then he should not be old in 2015...that 30 years he is gone from time...back to the future does not work with the bill and ted formula of we have to remember to steal the keys...and all the sudden they are there. however its a movie...enjoy it
09-05-05 | 11:10 PM
#28
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Didn't mean for it to "get crazy". I've just simply spent a lot of time over the years discussing these theories with my very sci-fi-minded friends.
If you think about it, it's not so much a "Bill and Ted theory", but it does apply. Another poster suggested that Marty and Doc should have immediately disappeared when Old Biff went back with the almanac. Things stayed the same for the Old Biff when he returned to his own 2015 (and Marty and Doc did not disappear) because Marty and Doc eventually did go back to retrieve the almanac from Young Biff, the same way Bill and Ted eventually made it a point to go back to the past to steal the keys and make sure they were placed where they needed them to be. It didn't matter when they went back during their own timeline...as long as they did it.
09-06-05 | 03:03 AM
#29
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by rennervision
However, if Biff changed the past then I don't see how Doc could have invented time travel and gone on many adventures with Marty. (In the alternate 1985, Doc was committed and Marty was in Switzerland.) So, technically, I think they should have disappeared along with old Biff when he returned to the new 2015.
Them going to 2015 causes Biff to go back, so if they never go to 2015 how would Biff go back to "change" things so they don't go to 2015?
Lets simplify. If Doc never invents the time machine it pretty much erases everything that we ever saw in the movies.
Last edited by UAIOE; 09-06-05 at 03:06 AM.
09-06-05 | 02:02 PM
#31
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Well yeah.
The BTTF movies only focus on Hill Valley and some of the effects messing with the timeline would have.
The only real mention of anything being changed outside of the town is Nixon being in his 4th term.
But i do believe that actual time travel would be far worse than shown in the movies and that a small change in the past would have a much, much larger impact on the future (snowball effect).
The BTTF movies only focus on Hill Valley and some of the effects messing with the timeline would have.
The only real mention of anything being changed outside of the town is Nixon being in his 4th term.
But i do believe that actual time travel would be far worse than shown in the movies and that a small change in the past would have a much, much larger impact on the future (snowball effect).
09-06-05 | 11:29 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by UAIOE
But i do believe that actual time travel would be far worse than shown in the movies and that a small change in the past would have a much, much larger impact on the future (snowball effect).
09-07-05 | 09:58 AM
#34
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From: Death Star
I find this to be a handy guide:
http://www.bttf.com/film_faq.htm
http://www.bttf.com/film_faq.htm
09-07-05 | 11:28 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by UAIOE
If Doc never invents the time machine it pretty much erases everything that we ever saw in the movies.
09-07-05 | 03:42 PM
#37
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From: Orlando, FL
09-10-05 | 08:45 PM
#40
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From: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live.
Originally Posted by rennervision
Parts of alternate 2015 would not change even after Biff changed the past. Hilldale was actually a dump in 2015-A, so it would remain a dump in 2015-B. (There were little hints dropped here and there that in the future Hilldale was now a rough neighborhood, even though it was a great place to live in 1985.)
However, if Biff changed the past then I don't see how Doc could have invented time travel and gone on many adventures with Marty. (In the alternate 1985, Doc was committed and Marty was in Switzerland.) So, technically, I think they should have disappeared along with old Biff when he returned to the new 2015.
I always kind of rationalized it by saying Doc and Marty avoided the "ripple effect" by jumping into the Delorean and traveling back 30 years just moments before they would have vanished. So through an incredible case of luck, they turned into a bit of an anomaly - existing in an alternate 1985 where they never should have existed.
However, if Biff changed the past then I don't see how Doc could have invented time travel and gone on many adventures with Marty. (In the alternate 1985, Doc was committed and Marty was in Switzerland.) So, technically, I think they should have disappeared along with old Biff when he returned to the new 2015.
I always kind of rationalized it by saying Doc and Marty avoided the "ripple effect" by jumping into the Delorean and traveling back 30 years just moments before they would have vanished. So through an incredible case of luck, they turned into a bit of an anomaly - existing in an alternate 1985 where they never should have existed.
didn't the Time Cop tv show use ripples and that was how they knew stuff was changing in time to be able to go back and stop it?
04-22-08 | 12:10 AM
#41
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wow, thanks for the above link.
just caught the movie for the first time in ages, - and i was sure that Jennifer was left in the Alt. 1985- with no hope of ever being seen again.
i think that's what author is saying. that she's left in alt. 1985, with Doc and Marty leaving to alter the past, so she's stuck there,
good for her.
just caught the movie for the first time in ages, - and i was sure that Jennifer was left in the Alt. 1985- with no hope of ever being seen again.
i think that's what author is saying. that she's left in alt. 1985, with Doc and Marty leaving to alter the past, so she's stuck there,
good for her.
04-22-08 | 07:32 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by The_Infidel
Remember in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure...
In Bill & Ted, the past cannot be changed. If you travel to the past, you engage in actions that have already occurred. Thus Ted reminding himself to wind his watch is both circular and ineffective, while his dad's keys disappeared in the past before he decided to steal them in the future. In this form of causality, paradox is impossible.
In BTTF, the past can be changed, which causes paradoxes. The films try to resolve these paradoxes: "erasing from existence" those paradoxical elements in the first film, and alternate timelines in part 2. Neither are perfect answers, and aren't implemented 100% correctly anyway, as Class316 points out.
04-22-08 | 12:24 PM
#44
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From: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell
Originally Posted by mikehunt
I like the "ripple effect" in general for all time travel related stories. it also explains how old biff came back to the 2015 that doc and marty were in. he left 1955 before the ripples started
04-22-08 | 12:30 PM
#45
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From: Philadelphia
Originally Posted by devilshalo
I kind of liked the visual explanation of the ripple effect in Frequency.
Another cool time travel movie, and it also shows how the one affecting the changes is sort of "immune" to them.
First Contract kind of visually showed this, with them caught in the "temporal wake" or whatever ST bullshit vernacular they used to indicate that the altered timeline "Doesn't Affect Enterprise".
-Doc
Last edited by Doc MacGyver; 04-22-08 at 03:16 PM.
04-22-08 | 11:24 PM
#49
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I always thought the biggest plothole was how the time machine managed to stay in the same place on Earth no matter what time of you go to.
If you leave November 1955 and travel to March 2015 the Earth will be be in a different point in it's orbit around the sun.
"Heavy".
If you leave November 1955 and travel to March 2015 the Earth will be be in a different point in it's orbit around the sun.
"Heavy".
04-23-08 | 12:56 AM
#50
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From: Philadelphia
Originally Posted by UAIOE
I always thought the biggest plothole was how the time machine managed to stay in the same place on Earth no matter what time of you go to.
If you leave November 1955 and travel to March 2015 the Earth will be be in a different point in it's orbit around the sun.
"Heavy".
If you leave November 1955 and travel to March 2015 the Earth will be be in a different point in it's orbit around the sun.
"Heavy".
...Great Scott.....