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-   -   Kill Bill: Volume 2 thoughts (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/356387-kill-bill-volume-2-thoughts.html)

Zodiac_Speaking 04-17-04 11:48 PM


Originally posted by Patman
The "Bud late for work" scene pretty much stopped the film dead in its tracks for me.
Hardly for me. It was great to see Sid Haig again. Plus, "Your about as useful as an ******* here" line was great. Also, it is character development for Budd, w/o it you'd be complaining there's no info on Budd during Bride four year coma.

Personally, I thought the talk with the Spanish pimp was unnecesary to me.

Zodiac_Speaking 04-17-04 11:52 PM


Originally posted by Snowlarbear
you just said it, V1 and V2 are very different. i for one liked v1 better.
Damn, you caught me :)

But those people, I mean, view it as a sequel, when to thier misinformed minds, is actually the final half of what is Kill Bill.

This is a different breed of film. I can't think of any one film that has tone changes (like V1 to V2). But this was QT actual plan. V2 has more of a western feel to it, and rightfully so, most of the film takes place around NV or so. You wouldn't have a western fell in the House of Blue Leaves or a Kung Fu feel in the desert.

Zodiac_Speaking 04-17-04 11:54 PM


Originally posted by Lara Means
What movie trailers played in front of Kill Bill?
Here in NE it was Van Helsing, Troy and Seed of Chucky, also Spiderman 2.

Supermallet 04-18-04 12:25 AM

I got trailers for Shall We Dance? (or whatever the hell that dancing movie with Richard Gere and J. Lo is), Troy, Anacondas, and Hero.

Budd's talk with the boss is also necessary to show that he is now in bad need of money, which gives him a reason to sell The Bride's sword to Elle.

Sildenafil 04-18-04 12:25 AM


Originally posted by jonpeters
Here in NE it was Van Helsing, Troy and Seed of Chucky, also Spiderman 2.
in TN, also had hero and king arthur

nightmaster 04-18-04 12:56 AM

I'm both seeing (and saying myself ) LOTS of performances here are worthy of Oscar nods;Uma, Carradine, Darryl and possibly Madsen as well......but ya know, QT deserves a nomination first and foremost. 2 films, 1 story, such a rollercoaster of a ride, a QT double feature that covers so many genres and pays so many homages I'm sure I'll never catch them all. This could well be Quentin's shining moment- how do you top this? While I'm sure he and the cast are more than capable of more great parts, performances, pictures......this story and it's characters have a very career defining resonance. I'll definitely be paying to watch again this week :)

cultshock 04-18-04 01:10 AM


Originally posted by Rypro 525
i would think the intermission would be for us who need a piss brake.
I needed a piss break just for Vol 2. Damn big size cokes and my apparently small bladder. :grunt:

BTW, the trailers I got were Hero (nice to finally see on the big screen. I got the DVD ages ago, but will see it in theatres if it comes to my neck of the woods), Van Helsing (I'm there!),Seed of Chucky, Anacondas, Troy and King Arthur.

Some of you are talking about Pei Mei's lines. It was in Cantonese with English subs in all the prints, right? I know that originally there was talk of his voice being dubbed in English by Quentin, but there were really no prints that had that, right?

minguy 04-18-04 01:24 AM


Originally posted by Suprmallet
I got trailers for Shall We Dance? (or whatever the hell that dancing movie with Richard Gere and J. Lo is)

Remake of a great Japanese film. One good thing about the remake is that we'll finally get the original on dvd. Probably. Maybe. Heck, who knows with Miramax.

Jackskeleton 04-18-04 01:27 AM

That is correct Cult. I've seen it three times, all three times it's been subbed. I think the idea was to go that route, but it was dropped in the last minute.

Supermallet 04-18-04 01:45 AM


Originally posted by minguy
Remake of a great Japanese film. One good thing about the remake is that we'll finally get the original on dvd. Probably. Maybe. Heck, who knows with Miramax.
That looks okay, but the Gere version looked terrible. Didn't J. Lo do some other dancing movie a few years back? Also, the Stanley Tucci thing...ech.

cultshock 04-18-04 02:11 AM


Originally posted by Jackskeleton
That is correct Cult. I've seen it three times, all three times it's been subbed. I think the idea was to go that route, but it was dropped in the last minute.
OK thats good to hear. I'm not sure if the original idea would have been a good or bad one (probably bad. It worked great the way it was. We just had to assume that the Bride had no real problems understanding Cantonese, but just couldn't speak it very well)

Mondo Kane 04-18-04 02:51 AM


Originally posted by cultshock

Some of you are talking about Pei Mei's lines. It was in Cantonese with English subs in all the prints, right? I know that originally there was talk of his voice being dubbed in English by Quentin, but there were really no prints that had that, right?

Not only was his voice supposed to be dubbed, but Quentin was actually gonna play Pei Mei! He even trained alongside Uma,Daryl,Vivica,and Lucy for the role. But he eventually found out (From Gordon Liu, I believe) that Pei Mei should only be played by a Chinese. Probably because there's real history behind the character. Thank you, Gordon. ;)

Oh and trailers I got where "Day after Tomorrow" (I think that's what it's called), "Spidey 2" (Not the new trailer though) and "Hero".

Mondo Kane 04-18-04 03:26 AM


Originally posted by majorjoe23

Can anyone name songs used in the movie that weren't on the soundtrack?

The funky music that plays during the hand-to-hand combat between Pei Mei & The Bride is the title track from the blaxpoitation flick, Tough Guys.

Bill's "exit" music is from the conclusion of Navajo Joe.

Music that plays when The Bride is walking through the desert is from Road to Salina.

There were 2 pieces of music that I really liked but don't know what they are. The first plays when Budd says the "Woman-deserves-revenge" line and the 2nd is when Elle is packing the money back in the suitcase. Judging from the closing credits, I think Riz Ortolani scored one of them.

jaeufraser 04-18-04 03:53 AM

Just chiming in to say I loved the film. Very different from volume one, but a hell of a good time.

I got a good laugh at Quentin's brand of bread...Bimbo bread.

BRIAN 1972 04-18-04 06:52 AM


Originally posted by jonpeters
Damn, you caught me :)

But those people, I mean, view it as a sequel, when to thier misinformed minds, is actually the final half of what is Kill Bill.

This is a different breed of film. I can't think of any one film that has tone changes (like V1 to V2). But this was QT actual plan. V2 has more of a western feel to it, and rightfully so, most of the film takes place around NV or so. You wouldn't have a western fell in the House of Blue Leaves or a Kung Fu feel in the desert.

i think that most people (not just those on DVDTalk) DO know that it was one movie - but when a movie is divided into 2 parts and released seaprately, i would not hold it against someone to refer to it as I & II.

I was so disappointed in Vol. II. It felt like I was watching "from the cutting room floor" snippets from Vol. I. I was so bored i wanted it to end - which is sad because i was looking forward to this movie since i saw Vol. I opening weekend. I just felt that there was too much of a pace difference between the two - i went in expecting more of Vol.I I only credit QT & Miramax with cutting the film into 2 parts at the right point.

I will not be getting this on DVD - I'll just keep Vol.1 and forget that "PART 2" came out.

PalmerJoss 04-18-04 07:48 AM

Just saw the film last night, and while I didn't enjoy it as much as I did Volume 1, I still thought it was a good movie. A good deal of Volume 2 could have(and probably should have)stayed on the cutting room floor, but the Pai Mei training sequence and the ending with Bill vs. The Bride definitely made the movie for me. I will probably see it again in a few days after I've viewed Volume 1 again.

FiveO 04-18-04 09:47 AM


Originally posted by Rypro 525
budd was already dead, Five-O. and i think it was austin in the movie as well. if you read the script, it was actually originally supposed to be a 5 year coma. and the movie's ending is exactly how it is in the script. and i noticed little if any improve, since the actors stayed to script.

Elle says "Come to Barstow, California...when you get there...", etc.

I knew it was CA! I saw it again last night and paid extra attention during this scene...just to make sure I wasn't getting senile :)

Derrich 04-18-04 10:26 AM


Originally posted by jough
That's not a Lamborghini, it's a DeTomoso Pantera:

http://www.pantera.net/

Much cooler car. Jay Leno noticed it and he and QT talked about it on the Tonight Show this week.

My bad. I thought it was a Muira. http://www.sirjlawes.herts.sch.uk/ic...en/page67.html

From that angle, the mistake is understandable.

Oh, and that ain't a Pantera, its a Mangusta. Which is even cooler.


D

Derrich 04-18-04 10:37 AM

http://www.pantera.net/KillBillMangusta.pdf

That article has lots of insight on the cars used in the movie. It even tells you what was supposed to happen to Buck's ***** Wagon and what Bill almost ended up driving. Cool stuff.

D

jough 04-18-04 11:36 AM

Yeah, Uma said in a late night TV interview this week that they were supposed to blow up the P Wagon (there's even a line about it in the film) but Quentin just couldn't part with it, so they didn't.

According to the EW article, Quentin has it parked in his driveway (but Uma got to keep the Hanzo sword).

DrSchasta 04-18-04 01:34 PM

My Review
 
Here is my review/thoughts on the movie (lots of spoilers)

Spoiler:

Kill Bill Vol 2 is a much different movie than the first volume. In fact, it actually changes the dynamic of the first one. Volume 1 had a simplistic plot - She had terrible thing done to her, she wants revenge. A cold hearted "I want to kill you for what you did to me" type of revenge. Volume adds so much depth to that. What we end up with a shakespearian love tragedy. Except instead of being told by Shakespear, it is told by Tarantino. Instead of being a play, it is a Kung Fu movie. Nothing takes place in the real world. It is a Kung Fu world, the same world that so many previous Kung Fu and Samaurai movies took place in. Considering this, any complaints about realism are totally unjustified. It would be like saying that Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is unrealistic.

Anyway, back to the love tragedy. Throughout all of volume 2, we find out that Bill and Uma had a deep romantic love. But alas, they are assassins, and a romance between Assassins can never be anything more than a romance. Uma knows this, and when she suddenly finds out that she is pregnant, she runs, in hopes that she can start a new life to raise her daughter in. By doing this, she is betraying Bill in the worst way. He assumes that she was killed by another assassin, and after much mourning, he sets out to avenge his lover's death. In an attempt to track down her killer, he instead finds her - hiding under a new name, knocked up, and getting married to some schmuck. We already know that Bill is an irrational killer, and being put in this situation he turns to rage. We now realize that this is the cause of the Wedding Chapel Massacre. His actions are now justified, and this adds extra depth to the relationship between him and Uma. It sets up a very emotional final confrontation, where Bill, in his way, apologizes to Uma for his "overreaction" and he explains, in a very tarantino fashion, that doing what he did hurt him hurt him horribly afterward.
It becomes obvious in their reactions to one another that they are still deeply in love. The predicament is that they have both betrayed each other, and neither one can trust the other. They are professional killers, after all. One of them has to die, and they both know this in the end. As Uma delivers her 5 point palm exploding heart technique, we see an extreme sadness cross her face. Raw emotion sets in as they both realize that Bill is about to die. In the final scene, we see Uma weeping on the bathroom floor, mourning her lover's death. We see the tears of sadness swiftly change to tears of joy as she thinks of her daughter who is in the next room. All I can say is "Wow". This is why I go see movies.

A lot of people think that Volume 2 had a lot of pointless scenes. I disagree. Many of the scenes were there for very important character development, some of which didn't become apparent to me until the end. The scenes with Budd, while not completely necessary to the movie, said a lot of Bill's relationship with his brother. Bill always knew his brother could be something special, but Budd refused to take on the challenge. Instead, he was happy living in his trailer, cleaning toilets at the nudie bar, and getting chewed out by his boss for being late. I can feel for Bill here. I think we all have some relative who refuses to live up to his or her potential. Budd even goes so far as to lie to everyone about pawning his Hattori Hanzo sword, because he wanted everyone to believe that he didn't care about that part of his life. We later find out that he didn't pawn the sword. More is added to this when we see that the sword is actually engraved "To the only man I ever loved - Bill." I found this to be very deep and meaningful, and I learned a lot more about Bill's character when I saw this.

I had a few complaints about the movie. The biggest being that I wanted more of these backstories. Hattori Hanzo was my favorite character of volume 1. He broke a sworn oath to help Beatrix kill Bill. Why did he do this? What is the story behind Bill and Hattori Hanzo's relationship? Volume 2 completely disregards this relationship. They excuse it by saying "Well Bill, you seem to have that affect on people" which really bothered me. They could have done a lot more with that. I also would have liked to know Bill's relationship with Julie Drefus's character. More Pai Mei would have been great too, but I was just soooo glad that we got as much of him as we did. He was great. Did anyone else realize how important it was that he taught Beatrix the exploding heart technique? It meant that after so long of treating her like crap, he finally learned to trust her SO MUCH so that he taught her the technique that he had never taught anyone else in the world. That was very cool.

In conclusion, with both movies combined into a single movie, I would put this in my list of top 5 movies of all time. It is definitely QT's best work.

RichC2 04-18-04 01:40 PM

Personally, I figured the relationship with Bill and Hattori went sour because of what Bill ultimately used his skills to do. I agree though, I'm one of the people that would love to have backstories on all these people - while I didn't particularly like the Budd @ the titty bar, I felt the rest was sublime and I just wanted to know more and more about Vernita, Sofie, Elle, and Bill as it went on (instead we got Budd, who was the least interesting, but ah well). Hopefully that "anime prequel" that seems so hip now, forms and we get that as well as some nice exited scenes.

FiveO 04-18-04 01:42 PM

Great review DrSchasta....very well put.

The Antipodean 04-18-04 01:56 PM

Something interesting I didn't even realize 'til last night --
Spoiler:
In KB V1, The Bride kills oodles of people. In V2, the only person she actually kills is Bill. Another interesting contrast.

Jackskeleton 04-18-04 02:25 PM


Originally posted by FiveO
Elle says "Come to Barstow, California...when you get there...", etc.

I knew it was CA! I saw it again last night and paid extra attention during this scene...just to make sure I wasn't getting senile :)

and you wouldn't believe me?

Supermallet 04-18-04 02:37 PM


Originally posted by RichC2
Personally, I figured the relationship with Bill and Hattori went sour because of what Bill ultimately used his skills to do.
I agree. Someone like Hanzo has great honor and would use his powers for good, so when a talented student like Bill uses his life's work to kill for money, it ran so contrary to everything Hanzo believed in that he swore a blood oath not to make any more swords, and only broke it because the sword he was making was going to help stop Bill.

Phyre 04-18-04 03:04 PM

Anyone recall what that Western Bill was watching near the showdown? I saw it listed in the credits but forgot. What's the importance? It even got a POV shot to emphasize something or another.

Wanna see something amazing? In that scene, when the Bride is coming down the stairs, and the tv is on the right playing the movie and Bill is at the bar on the left, someone in the movie gets hit and his head snaps back the very instant Bill slams something down on the counter, and the sound effects match the visual image. Neato.

Supermallet 04-18-04 03:06 PM

The POV shot was meant to accentuate Beatrix's leap for the sword. We see her attention is focused on getting the sword as Bill is talking. The movie is a red herring, in my opinion.

Brian Gentz 04-18-04 03:20 PM

Did anyone ever catch this hint at The Bride's name from Vol.1, my sister caught it after watching Vol.1 when she made me tell here the Bride's name.

Spoiler:
When Oren says, "Silly rabbit TRIX are for KIDs." Not totally sure if it was a reference to her name, but I'm betting it was.

Tarantino 04-18-04 03:31 PM

Yeah, we went over that in an earlier post.

Jackskeleton 04-18-04 03:39 PM


Originally posted by Brian Gentz
Did anyone ever catch this hint at The Bride's name from Vol.1, my sister caught it after watching Vol.1 when she made me tell here the Bride's name.

Spoiler:
When Oren says, "Silly rabbit TRIX are for KIDs." Not totally sure if it was a reference to her name, but I'm betting it was.

How about Bill calling her Kiddo in the very opening line of the film in Vol 1. ;)

Patman 04-18-04 04:06 PM

I saw it a second time, and it played a little better, but I still hated Bud's crappy job sequence, and the ending is still overly drawn out.

The Pai Mei chapter is the most entertaining chapter, followed by "Elle and I" chapter.

I did notice that Gordon Liu played not only Pai Mei, but also Johnny Mo, the bald baddie from the Crazy 88's.

I'll probably bump my rating for it up to a B or B-.

mookyman 04-18-04 04:10 PM

I don't want to just reiterate everything said so far. I loved it. It was not only near-perfect, but it made vol. 1 stronger. Together they are now among my favorite films.

So I'll just add two details - the shot of the Bride's feet sailing towards Elle had me in hysterics, and the black mamba in the suitcase was an unfair thing to spring on a guy who is terrified of snakes.

FiveO 04-18-04 04:26 PM


Originally posted by Jackskeleton
and you wouldn't believe me?

Sorry Jack...didn't see your post.

Appreciate the info. I knew I wasn't going deaf!

isamu 04-18-04 04:34 PM

Spoiler:
how the **** did uma survive a direct shotgun blast to the chest? what is she, superwoman or something? major plot screw up right there.

Patman 04-18-04 04:35 PM


Spoiler:

how the **** did uma survive a direct shotgun blast to the chest? what is she, superwoman or something? major plot screw up right there.

I've been told that rocksalt isn't as damaging as lead buckshot. Of course, I don't have first hand knowledge if that's true or not... :)

Bruce_S 04-18-04 04:41 PM

I watched vol.1 the night before seeing vol.2 the following day. I enjoyed the movie, however, the pacing of kind of slow at times. I really enjoyed the "catfight" in the trailer.. However, I was quiet disappointed at the end b/c of the build-up from the previous killings. I was hoping for some good sword fighting for the final encounter...

Did anyone catch the next QT flick of "Hero" starring Jet Li? I wasn't aware it was being directed by QT... I'm not much of a QT fun but I'm looking for to "Hero" thou...

RichC2 04-18-04 04:58 PM


Did anyone catch the next QT flick of "Hero" starring Jet Li? I wasn't aware it was being directed by QT... I'm not much of a QT fun but I'm looking for to "Hero" thou...
That isn't QT's flick. It said:
"Quentin Tarantino Presents..."
"A film by Yimou Zhang"

He's just getting it brought to US Theaters, MiramAxe wanted to cut it off their release sched, Tarantino apparently secured it under the condition he put his name on it.

From what I could tell, audience response has been pretty good - Miramax is planning a limited release in August, I believe they'd be wise to just gamble it and do a wide release.

Jackskeleton 04-18-04 05:03 PM


Originally posted by isamu
Spoiler:
how the **** did uma survive a direct shotgun blast to the chest? what is she, superwoman or something? major plot screw up right there.

Rocksalt as stated by budd. I assume it's a non-lethal way of bringing someone down.

RichC2 04-18-04 05:05 PM

Yeah, it's clearly stated that it's Rocksalt, you can see it splattered on her face as well.

"I win."


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