I agree. They're two differently styled movies.

Vol 1 is action packed, simplistic story. Which was good (got better when I saw it a 2nd time). More of an over the top Japanese/Hong Kong styled film.

Vol 2 is classic Tarentino. Great dialogue. Great story. More of a laid back western type of film.

You think so? I don't. When he mentioned that he "sold it for $250" and Bill got mad, he knew it was worth way more than that.

Notice how he let the one eyed girl give a price when he told her he had the sword. He didn't tell her he wanted a million dollars.

Well, it makes good business sense. They know that nobody will be renting Johnson Family Vacation, so they're safe in making it a guaranteed rental. Hell, they could probably only put two copies on the shelf and they'd still be safe in making it a guaranteed in stock rental. Kill Bill, OTOH, will have many more rentals and will be harder to manage.

This was one of the most boring movies I have ever seen. Except for the one or two fighting scenes the movie was frought with way to much dialogue.

I just watched the scene again, and he tells her to bring the million. Bud already knew how much the sword was worth. And in fact, it is obvious that he would never sell his own, as he would have done it much sooner. In the scene with Bill, there is no revelation that the sword was worth more. There was only the fun of playing a joke on a brother and pissing him off.

That is the whole point. Tarantino movies are always jam packed with dialogue. In Kill Bill 1 we get a lot of action, and not much back story, but in this one we get most of the back story and not as much of the action. It makes the ending of the film much more relevant. The fact that we learn so much more about the people in this film vs. the first one shows why Elle, Bud and Bill were last on the list. They were the most important to The Bride. O-Ren and Vernita were the low level pawns of Bill, even though O-Ren became very powerful in her own right.

Did you like any of Tarantino's other films? They are all very dialogue oriented.

OK, time for a strange twist of fate . . . so I sat down and re-watched the first half before viewing the second half last night . . . I actually enjoyed the first half this time (though I still argue that the blood sprays are moronic and majorly detract from the film) . . . so then I was actually looking forward to the "conclusion" . . . *yawn!*

I am not knocking the second half for being a dialogue and story driven movie -- I love dialogue and story driven movies -- but the fact is that there was very little actual story and the dialogue was no where near the caliber that QT usually puts together. About the only part that really held me riveted was the training with Pai Mei. But even the payoff there was ludicrous!

Yes, I have ill feelings toward the whole "let's make two!" concept, but after seeing the second half I can possibly understand it a little more. The second half completely falls apart and loses any semblence of continuity (style-wise) from the first. It just seems to run out of steam and energy.

I was exactly the opposite. I didn't like Volume 1 much because it was all fights (with much over the top) and pretty much no good dialogue, character development etc, and liked Volume 2 a lot.

I did like the Kill Bill, but most of his movies are blahh. I thought with that he might have become a little more interesting. I think he is really overrated. For me, movies can be made with more action oriented scenes (not talking about fighting) then dialogue filled.

I agree. If only Hollywood were listening!

I think that's why I was also a little disappointed with spiderman 2.

Re: Kill Bill: Volume 2 thoughts (part 2)
 

So what's the deal with Elle Driver? Are we to assume she dies?

just had a kill bill marathon last night. the delted scene with mike jai white kicked SO MUCH FRIGGIN ASS. should have been in the final cut.

vol 1 is one of my favorite films of all time, but vol 2 is a bit of a let down. id give it a b+ i guess. still great, but very slow. elle and budds scenes were great, pei mei too, but everything else was just people talking....really...slowly... i know this was tarintino doing westerns, but it didn't excite me as much as the fast paced stuff of vol 1. and i dont think vol 2's dialouge was half as good as pulp, or jackie or reservor or true romance. superman thing put me to sleep

Re: Re: Kill Bill: Volume 2 thoughts (part 2)
 

QT has said he wants to make a third one down the road, and the story would be Vivica A. Fox's character's daughter being grown up, trained by Elle Driver and coming after The Bride.

I don't consider

I don't know, we learned an awful lot about O-Ren :)

Oops, I copied and pasted instead of quoting, the quote you're responding to is actually by the original poster.

I have a quick question,

I'm sorry but the dialogues in Jackie Brown and Pulp Fiction are infinitely, infinitely better than those found in Kill Bill Volumes 1 and especially 2. And this is coming from someone who LOVED Volume 2 and currently places it in the Top 4 films of 2004 at the moment.

Yes we did, which is what makes me even more severely disappointed in the development of Budd in this particular film. I mean, he was the one that finally did get the best of the Bride. There should have been A LOT more stuff on his particular backround, his relationship with his brother, why he became a hitman and why he was such a pathetic shlub working at a run-down stripjoint. But I feel I've already put more thought into his character than even Tarantino did.

I wished they showed more stuff with Pai Mei and Beatrix. They should have gone more in depth with her training. I think that would have made this movie a lot better. For me. the more I think about this movie the worse it gets.

I always thought the scene where they finally reveal The Bride's name clearly.. was weird. (When they cut to Uma as a little girl in school). Aside from just proving that yes, that was her name, was there any significance or homage's going on there? To me, it was out of place and strange..

I thought that the the scene with fully-grown Beatrix in school was an homage to Annie Hall myself.

BTW, Ebert and Roeper had their "Best of 2004 So Far" show a few weeks ago. They both named Kill Bill Vol 2 as their #1 choice!

Also, I don't think the spoiler tags are necessary guys. We're on thread 2 of a multi-page conversation here.

I still think the "bleeping" of her name was the most pointless, un-necessary part of the movies. It really added nothing at all to the story or characters, imho.

I want to see Pai Mei get his own movie!

Done!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076168/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079892/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080905/

Pai Mei is in a ton of movies.

You didn't need an in depth story on Budd's past because you learned everything you needed to know about him during his scenes in the strip club and with Bill. You learn as much as, if not more about Budd than any one else. He's deadly, probably just as deadly as Bill. He's highly remorseful about his past. He had a falling out, probably a violent one, with his brother in the last few years. Maybe over the killing of Beatrix. Maybe over something else. Of everyone, he's the only one that got the best of Beatrix. You get the feeling that she may have been scared of him because of the way she attacked him. Everyone else got called out, or paused in the middle of battle to talk. But she tried to take Budd out a fast as possible, and failed. He's sadistic, deciding to bury her alive instead of killing her outright.

Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. You get the point. We got to find out a hell of a lot about Budd.

D

oh, it was rock salt that Budd used. he said it clearly twice.

I get a kick out of everybody pointing to the second half saying that it reveals so much of the story . . . it actually does very little story telling (less than the first half I think). It fleshes out the final assassinations, and tosses a little back story in, but actually opens up many more questions than it answers.

To paraphrase QT in the interview on the disc "It's a f#$@ing revenge story! That IS the story!" Nonetheless, after 4+ hours, the story was never told. Sure, we know that "The Bride"/Beatrix Kiddo/Black Mamba/*BLEEP* was turned on by her former cohorts because SHE abandoned them. And then she goes on a revenge killing spree. However very little of the story is told (and to his credit QT seemingly admits that there really is NO story) . . . the real story is what exactly is this band of Anti-Charlie's Angels and what kept them together and took them apart. And don't start throwing me the easy answers, because they don't actually tell the story.

The only place in either half that actually tells a story is O-Ren's chapter, which was over inflated and too long. Pare that down and give it to me several times (once for each character) and THAT will tell me a story. Now we are opening up the cross-media world and encouraging comic books and novels and animes . . . the list goes on.

Okay, I want Pai Mei to get his own Tarantino written/directed movie.

Yeah you know, I always thought the whole Beatrix/Beep thing was very unnecessary. Unless Quentin is doing a throwback to some other movie. But I think it would've worked better if they all just said Kiddo... and we all go on thinking we don't know her name. And then in Volume 2, they'd reveal her first name. Personally, I think the *beep* took some people out of the movie for a second... and wasn't really worth it in the end.

this movie defenetly deserves a second viewing for those who didn't like it but loved part 1. while the dialogue is dry (not bad), just not the over all flash as his other movies, it does reveal alot about the characters. there is some foreshadowing to the ending during the speech bill gives about Pei Mei

the bleeping idea is mentioned on the first dvd. they thought it would be a good idea if the assassin was nameless till the end of hte movie.

I have a question. At the end of the movie

The valet.

Thanks Groucho. I was thinking it was one of the main characters, but there were not many left ;)

The go watch piles of crud like Bad Boys II, Fast and the Furious, and Alien vs. Predator.


Everytime I see Vol.2, it gets better.

Re: Re: Re: Kill Bill: Volume 2 thoughts (part 2)
 

That would be, imho, a stupid premise. Trained by a blind person who didn't even complete her training because she killed Pei Mei before she could. The kid coming after her, also a bit silly, as the bride would be about 50. I'm against a pt. iii entirely, unless it's a prequel showing more of the pre-Kill Bill storyline of the Death Squad and the Brides deeds.

Also, unrelated, spoiler tags on a movie long out of the theaters and now on DVD? By the location and topic of this thread alone, no one who doesn't want to be spoiled should be within 50 feet of this.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Kill Bill: Volume 2 thoughts (part 2)
 

Actually, QT said that the daughter would be raised by Sofie Fatale and probably being trained by some other one of Bill's co-horts.