What's the beef with The Hulk?
#76
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Ayo
fifteen, seventeen, eighteen...same thing really. I got the age wrong (maybe I was thinking of the comic? I dunno), but the fact remains; the ending doesn't make any logical sense.
fifteen, seventeen, eighteen...same thing really. I got the age wrong (maybe I was thinking of the comic? I dunno), but the fact remains; the ending doesn't make any logical sense.
Actually, there is a world of difference in that age group. You go from being an adolescent to an adult.
#77
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by Ayo
Because the question remains; if he's so concerned with his superhero life being a danger to friends and loved ones, does he ever plan to HAVE a real life? Does he ever plan to have a girlfriend, a wife? Because whether in the present or in the future, its an issue he'll have to address. So unless he's planning to become Spider-Monk, its ridiculous to think his passing on Mary Jane (haha, passing on Mary Jane) is going to make a realistic change in his life, long term. At the end of a story, the audience is usually supposed to have an idea how the protaganist will fare afterward. From this ending, we're left with more questions than answers, and that can work for some stories, but not this kind. There's almost no build up to this radical decison to live a chaste, loveless life, and furthermore, it goes against all that we understand about human nature and human desire. When your story goes against what the audience understands about human nature, you must give adequate reasoning behind it! You must convince your audience of this departure from reality; you have to sell the fantasy, and Spider-Man doesn't. Take yourself out of the obvious Sci-fi-trilogy set up, and look at this movie as a self-contained story. As a self-contained work, does this even make a lick of sense? I mean, do you know how high the Brooklyn Bridge is? A person who'd go through that to save his most beloved only to turn around the next day and reject her flat out needs much, much more motivation than this nonsense.
Because the question remains; if he's so concerned with his superhero life being a danger to friends and loved ones, does he ever plan to HAVE a real life? Does he ever plan to have a girlfriend, a wife? Because whether in the present or in the future, its an issue he'll have to address. So unless he's planning to become Spider-Monk, its ridiculous to think his passing on Mary Jane (haha, passing on Mary Jane) is going to make a realistic change in his life, long term. At the end of a story, the audience is usually supposed to have an idea how the protaganist will fare afterward. From this ending, we're left with more questions than answers, and that can work for some stories, but not this kind. There's almost no build up to this radical decison to live a chaste, loveless life, and furthermore, it goes against all that we understand about human nature and human desire. When your story goes against what the audience understands about human nature, you must give adequate reasoning behind it! You must convince your audience of this departure from reality; you have to sell the fantasy, and Spider-Man doesn't. Take yourself out of the obvious Sci-fi-trilogy set up, and look at this movie as a self-contained story. As a self-contained work, does this even make a lick of sense? I mean, do you know how high the Brooklyn Bridge is? A person who'd go through that to save his most beloved only to turn around the next day and reject her flat out needs much, much more motivation than this nonsense.
This of course is all based on personal experience . . .
#78
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Originally posted by Ayo
fifteen, seventeen, eighteen...same thing really. I got the age wrong (maybe I was thinking of the comic? I dunno), but the fact remains; the ending doesn't make any logical sense.
Because the question remains; if he's so concerned with his superhero life being a danger to friends and loved ones, does he ever plan to HAVE a real life? Does he ever plan to have a girlfriend, a wife? Because whether in the present or in the future, its an issue he'll have to address. So unless he's planning to become Spider-Monk, its ridiculous to think his passing on Mary Jane (haha, passing on Mary Jane) is going to make a realistic change in his life, long term. At the end of a story, the audience is usually supposed to have an idea how the protaganist will fare afterward. From this ending, we're left with more questions than answers, and that can work for some stories, but not this kind. There's almost no build up to this radical decison to live a chaste, loveless life, and furthermore, it goes against all that we understand about human nature and human desire. When your story goes against what the audience understands about human nature, you must give adequate reasoning behind it! You must convince your audience of this departure from reality; you have to sell the fantasy, and Spider-Man doesn't. Take yourself out of the obvious Sci-fi-trilogy set up, and look at this movie as a self-contained story. As a self-contained work, does this even make a lick of sense? I mean, do you know how high the Brooklyn Bridge is? A person who'd go through that to save his most beloved only to turn around the next day and reject her flat out needs much, much more motivation than this nonsense.
fifteen, seventeen, eighteen...same thing really. I got the age wrong (maybe I was thinking of the comic? I dunno), but the fact remains; the ending doesn't make any logical sense.
Because the question remains; if he's so concerned with his superhero life being a danger to friends and loved ones, does he ever plan to HAVE a real life? Does he ever plan to have a girlfriend, a wife? Because whether in the present or in the future, its an issue he'll have to address. So unless he's planning to become Spider-Monk, its ridiculous to think his passing on Mary Jane (haha, passing on Mary Jane) is going to make a realistic change in his life, long term. At the end of a story, the audience is usually supposed to have an idea how the protaganist will fare afterward. From this ending, we're left with more questions than answers, and that can work for some stories, but not this kind. There's almost no build up to this radical decison to live a chaste, loveless life, and furthermore, it goes against all that we understand about human nature and human desire. When your story goes against what the audience understands about human nature, you must give adequate reasoning behind it! You must convince your audience of this departure from reality; you have to sell the fantasy, and Spider-Man doesn't. Take yourself out of the obvious Sci-fi-trilogy set up, and look at this movie as a self-contained story. As a self-contained work, does this even make a lick of sense? I mean, do you know how high the Brooklyn Bridge is? A person who'd go through that to save his most beloved only to turn around the next day and reject her flat out needs much, much more motivation than this nonsense.
#79
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I was one of the ones bashing Hulk's CG before I saw it; judging from the commercials it looked really fake.
Then I saw it in the theatre, and I realized I was wrong the whole time. I actually liked the CG, with the exception of the dogs.
Yet, I still didn't like the movie. I don't have any "beef" with it, I just don't like it - as someone said before, it was very forgettable.
It wasn't engaging, it developed the characters for a long time yet I still had trouble really caring about them. I should add that I never read the comic or saw the shows so I didn't have any preconcieved opinions on what they should have done. As well, I wasn't expecting an action-fest because all I'd been hearing for the while prior was that it was going to be an action movie with a story, and I thought that was cool. With me, at least, that plan backfired because it seemed as if it was trying to prove that it was a serious movie with a story and credibility...
So I ended up sleeping for the last hour (occasionally waking up when I heard the hulk banging around), and it's not that I don't like dialogue - a movie like 12 Angry Men is one of my favourites - but Hulk just didn't hold me.
I honestly don't care about how popular it is - I'm proud to say I enjoyed Chicago and Pearl Harbor. There's such a think called taste in films, and not everyone's going to have the same one. You liked The Hulk, I didn't. What's wrong with that?
Then I saw it in the theatre, and I realized I was wrong the whole time. I actually liked the CG, with the exception of the dogs.
Yet, I still didn't like the movie. I don't have any "beef" with it, I just don't like it - as someone said before, it was very forgettable.
It wasn't engaging, it developed the characters for a long time yet I still had trouble really caring about them. I should add that I never read the comic or saw the shows so I didn't have any preconcieved opinions on what they should have done. As well, I wasn't expecting an action-fest because all I'd been hearing for the while prior was that it was going to be an action movie with a story, and I thought that was cool. With me, at least, that plan backfired because it seemed as if it was trying to prove that it was a serious movie with a story and credibility...
So I ended up sleeping for the last hour (occasionally waking up when I heard the hulk banging around), and it's not that I don't like dialogue - a movie like 12 Angry Men is one of my favourites - but Hulk just didn't hold me.
I honestly don't care about how popular it is - I'm proud to say I enjoyed Chicago and Pearl Harbor. There's such a think called taste in films, and not everyone's going to have the same one. You liked The Hulk, I didn't. What's wrong with that?
Last edited by thismeansyou; 12-06-03 at 06:47 PM.
#80
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I honestly don't care about how popular it is - I'm proud to say I enjoyed Chicago and Pearl Harbor. There's such a think called taste in films, and not everyone's going to have the same one. You liked The Hulk, I didn't. What's wrong with that?
#82
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From: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Originally posted by Ayo
fifteen, seventeen, eighteen...same thing really. I got the age wrong (maybe I was thinking of the comic? I dunno), but the fact remains; the ending doesn't make any logical sense.
fifteen, seventeen, eighteen...same thing really. I got the age wrong (maybe I was thinking of the comic? I dunno), but the fact remains; the ending doesn't make any logical sense.
You must be thinking of a different comic then. the story is basiclly the same and the ages are not just 15-18 range.
You must have missed the point, if peter parker brings her into his world, he is concerned that she would be in danger again like she was right then. he isnt looking for a one time quick hit and run, he generally cares for this girl and I'm not sure if you are part of that 15-18 age group, but it seems like it. you might think like that, but you can generally care for someone so much and never "hit it" for the simple reason that it might chnage things in a way you do not want. either way, like others have said.. for you to say that this is illogical in a film where a spider bites a boy and gives him super powers make you look stupid. the grounds in which disbelief is present are pretty clear. Just sit back and enjoy the movie. do you want the hero riding away into the sunset together? it would really leave things in an ackward position going into a sequel by just leaving it at that instead of further developing the love angle.
#83
DVD Talk Legend
I actually enjoyed it, especially the transitions, but it really should've ended with the Hulk surrendering in San Francisco. It's a more satisfying ending and provides better closure. I realize they wanted closure for the Banners as well, but that should have been saved for a potential sequel (and it shouldn't have been so awful).
#84
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Just because you love someone and want to protect them doesn't make the problem go away.
So you push the girl away. For her own good.
When is it okay to have a romance then? Its illogical because he'll never not be Spider-Man (at least, WE know that). So we have to presume that since he's afraid to "endanger" his ladyfriend now, that he'll never be able to have a love interest for the same reasons. I mean, he has to assume that even if he "retires," that he'll still have to worry about the saftey of his loved ones...when will it be clear and okay for him to love someone? That's the part that makes the least amount of sense; its not just the now, its an issue that would follow the character for the rest of his existence.
He'd never be "in the clear," so he'd never be in a position to not "endanger" a loved one, so basically, he's establishing a lifetime pattern of living in solitude like a monk. The ending makes no sense because that's not how people are. Police have girlfriends and wives all the time, and how is Spider-Man that different? Think from inside the story. Sure his bad guy was a real looney with crazy powers, but at the same time, I refuse to believe that this experience would scare him away from women and love for the rest of his life, as this ending would suggest.
Yes, in real life there are crime fighters, and yes, they deal with high-risk situations. Doesn't make them afraid to live.
So you push the girl away. For her own good.
When is it okay to have a romance then? Its illogical because he'll never not be Spider-Man (at least, WE know that). So we have to presume that since he's afraid to "endanger" his ladyfriend now, that he'll never be able to have a love interest for the same reasons. I mean, he has to assume that even if he "retires," that he'll still have to worry about the saftey of his loved ones...when will it be clear and okay for him to love someone? That's the part that makes the least amount of sense; its not just the now, its an issue that would follow the character for the rest of his existence.
He'd never be "in the clear," so he'd never be in a position to not "endanger" a loved one, so basically, he's establishing a lifetime pattern of living in solitude like a monk. The ending makes no sense because that's not how people are. Police have girlfriends and wives all the time, and how is Spider-Man that different? Think from inside the story. Sure his bad guy was a real looney with crazy powers, but at the same time, I refuse to believe that this experience would scare him away from women and love for the rest of his life, as this ending would suggest.
Yes, in real life there are crime fighters, and yes, they deal with high-risk situations. Doesn't make them afraid to live.
#85
DVD Talk Godfather
Characters change. The same way that people wait until the right moment to get married. At this point, after seeing his Uncle Ben killed because of his irresponsibility and then watching his Aunt May and Mary Jane attacked because of his powers, he can't handle risking their lives again. Maybe furthur down the line, he'll be ready. Sorry, but those are realistic emotions that people go through. Maybe it doesn't apply to you, but it still happens.
Really, there's no need to continue trying to prove your point. I can see why you feel that the ending is implausible, but characters change based on circumstance.
Really, there's no need to continue trying to prove your point. I can see why you feel that the ending is implausible, but characters change based on circumstance.
#86
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by fumanstan
Characters change. The same way that people wait until the right moment to get married. At this point, after seeing his Uncle Ben killed because of his irresponsibility and then watching his Aunt May and Mary Jane attacked because of his powers, he can't handle risking their lives again. Maybe furthur down the line, he'll be ready. Sorry, but those are realistic emotions that people go through. Maybe it doesn't apply to you, but it still happens.
Characters change. The same way that people wait until the right moment to get married. At this point, after seeing his Uncle Ben killed because of his irresponsibility and then watching his Aunt May and Mary Jane attacked because of his powers, he can't handle risking their lives again. Maybe furthur down the line, he'll be ready. Sorry, but those are realistic emotions that people go through. Maybe it doesn't apply to you, but it still happens.
#88
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I always found the fact that Peter Parker never went with MJ at the end to be very p*ssy on his part...yeah he's a superhero and people are gonna come after him and his loved one...but god damn it it always gonna be like that so dont be a p*ssy and push everyone out of your life...it made Spiderman into a little sissy...not like he wasnt much of one before...but even more so now...Did not like it at all!
#89
DVD Talk Gold Edition
I always found the fact that Peter Parker never went with MJ at the end to be very p*ssy on his part...yeah he's a superhero and people are gonna come after him and his loved one...but god damn it it always gonna be like that so dont be a p*ssy and push everyone out of your life
Now your best friend is vowing to murder your alter ego and the woman you love may suspect your secret...what are you gonna do now?
"i'm gonna push all that outta my head and go tap dat bee-ahtch, 'cause i'm just a typical, shallow, selfish, emotionally neutered 21st century American post adolescant...yeah baby!"
Last edited by ckolchak; 12-09-03 at 07:07 AM.
#91
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally posted by Pauly
The "beef" with The Hulk is very simple:
people on this board love to tear down and bash anything that becomes too popular. Popularity = Bad to many of the people who frequent this site, so Hulk was an easy target for people who feel they must support the smaller films by bashing the big Hollywood event films, regardless of whether it was good or if they saw it or not. Many Ang Lee fans badmouthed the movie months before it even opened also, accusing Lee of being a Hollywood "selllout".
The "beef" with The Hulk is very simple:
people on this board love to tear down and bash anything that becomes too popular. Popularity = Bad to many of the people who frequent this site, so Hulk was an easy target for people who feel they must support the smaller films by bashing the big Hollywood event films, regardless of whether it was good or if they saw it or not. Many Ang Lee fans badmouthed the movie months before it even opened also, accusing Lee of being a Hollywood "selllout".
#93
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I honestly cannot think of a worse film from the past decade that I have ever seen, off the top of my head. It is probably the worst acted, edited, directed, CGIed to hell. P.O.S. i have seen. EVER. It's the worst since...well...Daredevil.




