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What's the beef with The Hulk?

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What's the beef with The Hulk?

Old 12-04-03, 01:34 PM
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I was very excited to see this Movie when I heard it was in development, Bana, Connely, and Ang Lee...fantastic combination IMO! However the more I heard and saw the more skeptical I became. In the end I watched it from Netflix and it was far worse than I ever thought it might be. Spoilers follow...

1. This was not the Hulk character from the comics at all. In the comics Bruce Banner messes with mother nature and essentially curses himself by accident. Becoming the Hulk was his fault and so the character is responsible for all the negatives that result. In the movie Bruce is the product of genetic tampering by his Father, it totally removes the responsibility for his condition from Bruce and IMO changes the character completely. I even go so far as to call the movie the notHulk movie, because it certainly was not the Hulk character from the comics I have read.

2. The cgi was horrible, compare three entirely cgi characters, notHulk, Gollum, and JarJar. Of the 3 notHulk is the lowest quality animation.

3. Editing, 24 does the multicamera display well, they show something in each frame that's of use. The notHulk movie often showed the same shot from multiple angles. It was annoying at best to me. How many angles do I need to see of one chopper flying across a brown desert landscape at the same time?

4. The father. Remove this character from the movie entirely and it would have been significantly better. This also removes what is one of the worst endings I have ever seen in a movie as well as the dogs which I detested.

That's probably enough for one post...so I guess re-looking at what I have typed, if you removed the father character from the movie entirely it would actually have been a Hulk movie and I probably would have enjoyed it.
Old 12-04-03, 01:35 PM
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my 11 year old liked it, so we bought it for him on dvd. when it is playing he is either: A) playing with his hulk toys all over the living room, totally ignoring the movie, or B) outside playing with friends and popping in on occasion to see if "the hulk parts are on yet"...

i guess the reason i didn't much care for it would be that while we were in the theater watching it, i looked over at my husband (who was nodding off) and asked, "damn, is this thing EVER going to end?!" we were bored to tears, and for some reason, being fans of superhero/action films in a big way, i thought that maybe The Hulk shouldn't have been a better nap inducer than a bottle of NyQuil.
Old 12-04-03, 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Nuff
2. The cgi was horrible, compare three entirely cgi characters, notHulk, Gollum, and JarJar. Of the 3 notHulk is the lowest quality animation.
WHOOPS! I stand corrected.
Old 12-04-03, 02:45 PM
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I like this movie, I like this movie, I like this movie.

I though the montages and multi-cuts were beautiful to behold. The motion was always so graceful...I could watch the first forty minutes over and over again.

I love the style of the movie; yes, its a gimmick film, but that doesn't make it a bad thing.


I agree with many of the "cons," but they did not take away from my enjoyment of the movie overall.

1) The ending was dumb and boring.

counterpoint 1) The ending to Spider-Man was much worse, and much more unbelievable: I mean, no man would leap off the top of the Brooklyn Bridge (with or without superpowers) to save the woman of his dreams, only to turn around and be like "I do love you...as a friend." Never happen. If a man gets a shot with his dream girl, it would take one hell of a set of circumstances for me to buy that he wouldn't take that chance. What a piece of garbage.

2) Nicke Nolte: I don't mind the acting; but his character was very thin--he basically existed to create the plot and advance it accordingly.

3)Bruce Banner's responsibility in his becoming the Hulk (or lack thereof): I agree that this is a problem. I also think that it was out of character for Bruce to be like "I liked it [being the Hulk]."

But flaws aside, this was a gorgeous, beautiful motion picture! The movement, the transitions...so pretty!
Old 12-04-03, 02:53 PM
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About the ending. I can certainly see why it may be off putting. But I found it fitting that Lee takes it into a kind of dimestore abstraction. Think about it, Nolte and Bana share very little screen time until the end. Lee builds up their adversial relationship so much that when they do meet their confrontation borders on cataclysmic. You don't know precisely what happens, but its enormity is nicely communicated.
Old 12-04-03, 03:44 PM
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You don't know precisely what happens
that's always great in films. Don't give any clue to the audiance what exactly is going on, on screen..
Old 12-04-03, 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Ayo
3)Bruce Banner's responsibility in his becoming the Hulk (or lack thereof): I agree that this is a problem. I also think that it was out of character for Bruce to be like "I liked it [being the Hulk]."
Well, I think that is character if you stick with the original story's explaination of how he became the Hulk (i.e., in the comic and/or TV show), but I thought the idea of enjoying being the Hulk fit in with this adaptation very well. Bruce had spent a life not knowing or expressing his feelings, always keeping them pent up inside of him. I think that enjoying the release of that emotional energy makes perfect sense to his character in this version of the story. I actually remember thinking that as I was watching the movie.
Old 12-04-03, 04:25 PM
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I'm critical of CG, and I thought the Hulk looked great.
Old 12-04-03, 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
that's always great in films. Don't give any clue to the audience what exactly is going on, on screen..
Hence my use of the word precisely. What is illustrated is the conflict between the father and son erupting on an epic scale. The elder Banner disappearing (or dissipating) while the younger lies spent in the mountain lake. What is not illustrated is the effect on the son, leaving the exact resolution of the conflict ambiguous. And while the coda set in South America may feel tacked on, Bana does communicate a certain surliness that Nolte demonstrated throughout the movie, hinting that he was not left entirely unaffected.

Ambiguity is not a bad thing, it's a device to elicit the audience's own feelings into what may have happened.

Edited to add: And I think it's obvious that Hulk differs from other superhero fare in that Lee and company are more interested in expressing a mood and emotional reaction than just simply telling an action packed story. And that's where my main criticism of the film comes from: that a comic book story is not the best thing to adapt for that purpose. It gets stuck at points between those two distinctions, but remains very interesting and a cut above the rest for its efforts.

Last edited by sundog; 12-04-03 at 04:44 PM.
Old 12-04-03, 05:09 PM
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i agree the character (bruce) is changed for the film... but then again, pretty much all comic characters are when converted to films. At any rate, in the film bruce IS tampering with nature (nano-technology to be used inside organisms qualifys, especially if you find yourself to be the unlucky frog) and if he hadn't been (say he was a pizza delivery guy) the genetic fiddling that his father did would never have been unleashed.

I dunno... i like what the did with the Hulk.. and no matter what ya think of it, ya have to agree that atleast they didn't pull an American-Godzilla on the character. When he did hulk-out, he was pretty true to the comics (which over time vary quite a bit when it comes to the Hulks capabilities, size etc). I especially liked how when he burst out of his house and the feds were shootin' him he sorta swelled up even bigger which is very Hulk comic... the madder he gets, the more powerful he becomes.

anyway, like i said before I thought it was a very fun movie and hope there is a sequel. The Hulk idea may not have an incredible amount of depth... but it does explore one of the most human emotions there is... anger/rage... and that can be pretty interesting.

j

Last edited by jekbrown; 12-04-03 at 05:13 PM.
Old 12-04-03, 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Ayo


counterpoint 1) The ending to Spider-Man was much worse, and much more unbelievable: I mean, no man would leap off the top of the Brooklyn Bridge (with or without superpowers) to save the woman of his dreams, only to turn around and be like "I do love you...as a friend." Never happen. If a man gets a shot with his dream girl, it would take one hell of a set of circumstances for me to buy that he wouldn't take that chance. What a piece of garbage.
I know this is going off topic, but i had to comment... the reason Mary Jane's life was even at risk was because she knew Spider-Man, and that's before they're even a couple. Risking the death of your loved ones isn't a bad enough circustance for you?
Old 12-04-03, 08:47 PM
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I was conflicted about this movie. I love the back story and thought most of the actors are great, especially Bana and Connely. I love them here. However, the effects are TERRIBLE and Nolte, well, he is terrible too. Hence, I watch the movie and pretty much love it, but whenever he is the Hulk or Nolte is on, it is just painful to watch. The effects in this movie are just basically inexcusable, at least to me.

The dvd is a good one though, I will most likely keep it. Besides, it was a long way off from being the worst movie of the summer, like many claimed and I REALLY adored Bana & Connely.

Last edited by onebyone; 12-04-03 at 08:51 PM.
Old 12-04-03, 08:55 PM
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I didn't mind the cg at all, some of it was pretty cool, I did think the comic framing was kind of dumb though, I mean its clever but I just don't like split screens in general, overall I would say its an ok movie
Old 12-04-03, 11:28 PM
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This was a good movie, and better than numerous other comic-book films that for some inexplicable reason get good notices despite having a complete lack of ambition and are content with just going through the same old motions (ie. Batman). I don't know what Stan Lee thought of Ang Lee's movie but I get the feeling that he must have been really pleased with it.
Old 12-05-03, 02:24 AM
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I also liked this movie, the CG was very good.If you follow the comentary by special effewts guy, it's very detailed and how difficult was it for them to make this CG Hulk.Ang Lee story telling was a little slow but I hated the ending with Nolte and Bana
Old 12-05-03, 03:49 AM
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I can't stress enough how much the editing style bothered me. the transitions were pure hell and those responsible should be sacked.
Old 12-05-03, 02:40 PM
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I liked the Hulk.

It just tried to bite off a little more than it could chew.

Father vs. Son = A man left an emotional cripple at the hands of his father. The end was just a therapy session illustrated by a battle between two super beings (Hulk (Son) Vs. Absorbing Man (Father))

Stan Lee kept his themes (messages) strong but simple in the original comics. That would have worked better here too.

The monster inside all of us. The struggle to keep him at bay.

Ang Lee seemed to try and deepen the story up a bit too much.
Old 12-05-03, 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by fumanstan
I know this is going off topic, but i had to comment... the reason Mary Jane's life was even at risk was because she knew Spider-Man, and that's before they're even a couple. Risking the death of your loved ones isn't a bad enough circustance for you?
Nope: Most men, especially ones as arrogant and flawed as Peter Parker are going to try to live it up and have it all.

I've heard this argument before (actually, every single time I discuss this movie), and I just don't buy it. It just isn't how real people are.

One of the most wrong-headed characterizations of any human being I've seen on the big screen. No way. Never happen; besides,assuming that the Goblin menace is disposed of (we know its not, but the characters don't), wouldn't he feel it was "safe?" Furthermore, he's a man; he's GOT to get a girl SOMETIME in his life; is he planning to live as a monk because he can crawl up walls? No way, it doesn't make sense; and also, the character is 15. Fifteen! Fifteen year olds WITHOUT superpowers will have their significant others, regardless of the risks, because they think they'll be able to deal with any trouble as it comes. Having superpowers, I don't know what would make him think he's not invincible. Its just false, its not true, its incorrect, this is not how people are.

If I jump off of a tall bridge to save someone, maybe I'm just a nice guy. But if I jump off a bridge to save the woman of my dreams...no WAY am I walking away from my shot at her later. And if that IS a part of his character, then I'm not interested. I can't enjoy a story about a person like that. He's not a stand-up man, if he doesn't have the balls to have a normal relationship with a preferred member of the attractive sex! Can't relate to a psycho like that.
Old 12-05-03, 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Ayo
Furthermore, he's a man; he's GOT to get a girl SOMETIME in his life; is he planning to live as a monk because he can crawl up walls? No way, it doesn't make sense; and also, the character is 15. Fifteen! Fifteen year olds WITHOUT superpowers will have their significant others, regardless of the risks, because they think they'll be able to deal with any trouble as it comes.
Um . . . he is graduated from high scholl, living in the city own his own, with a job . . . I don't know how old he is, but he is cetainly not 15 . . .
Old 12-05-03, 04:16 PM
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I saw it in the theatres, mainly because my friends dragged me to go see it. I knew I wouldn't like it from the trailers, but like every film I see, I gave it a chance. But what the HULK ended up doing was kick me in the balls, bash my head into the ground several times, and take my $6.50 as I lay there struggling to get up.

Seriously though, I thought it was the worst movie I've seen this year in a summer of crappy movies. It was way, way, WAY too long, the movie was too gloomy, too serious for its own good, and not filled with a desire to entertain the audience. I don't care what kind of superhero the HULK is, you don't make a superhero comic book movie like Ang Lee did. It was an awkward combination of art film pretensiousness and blockbuster idiocy. In trying to appeal to everyone, the HULK failed on every level for me.

The story was drawn-out and boring, everybody in the film seemed like robots on prozac, even usually good actors sucked the life and spirit out of anything that was going on. Except Josh Lucas, who was the only thing I liked about the movie. He was a good villain, and his death scene was the one and ONLY editing technique that I liked in the HULK. Speaking of which, there were so many completely unnecessary editing techniques in the HULK that it was downright annoying about midway through the movie.

The action scenes weren't interesting at all, the CGI was bad, and the climax over-the-topped over-the-top. Plus, the ending sets it up for a sequel, oozing soon into a theatre near you!

One of the friends I was sitting with fell asleep and I had to wake him up when the movie was over. The HULK provided zero entertainment for me, and to me at least, marks everything that is wrong with today's films.

Last edited by metaridley; 12-05-03 at 04:18 PM.
Old 12-05-03, 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Ayo
Nope: Most men, especially ones as arrogant and flawed as Peter Parker are going to try to live it up and have it all.

I've heard this argument before (actually, every single time I discuss this movie), and I just don't buy it. It just isn't how real people are.

One of the most wrong-headed characterizations of any human being I've seen on the big screen. No way. Never happen; besides,assuming that the Goblin menace is disposed of (we know its not, but the characters don't), wouldn't he feel it was "safe?" Furthermore, he's a man; he's GOT to get a girl SOMETIME in his life; is he planning to live as a monk because he can crawl up walls? No way, it doesn't make sense; and also, the character is 15. Fifteen! Fifteen year olds WITHOUT superpowers will have their significant others, regardless of the risks, because they think they'll be able to deal with any trouble as it comes. Having superpowers, I don't know what would make him think he's not invincible. Its just false, its not true, its incorrect, this is not how people are.

If I jump off of a tall bridge to save someone, maybe I'm just a nice guy. But if I jump off a bridge to save the woman of my dreams...no WAY am I walking away from my shot at her later. And if that IS a part of his character, then I'm not interested. I can't enjoy a story about a person like that. He's not a stand-up man, if he doesn't have the balls to have a normal relationship with a preferred member of the attractive sex! Can't relate to a psycho like that.
I wouldn't consider Parker arrogant... and like talemyn said he's not 15. Regardless, real people also care about their loved ones, and i think that many would avoid putting them in danger if possible. I can understand if you don't like the character, but faulting him just because he does something that you wouldn't do seems silly, especially for a super hero movie where revenge turns you into a costumed vigilante. I don't think real people do that
Old 12-06-03, 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by Ayo
Nope: Most men, especially ones as arrogant and flawed as Peter Parker are going to try to live it up and have it all.

I've heard this argument before (actually, every single time I discuss this movie), and I just don't buy it. It just isn't how real people are.

One of the most wrong-headed characterizations of any human being I've seen on the big screen. No way. Never happen; besides,assuming that the Goblin menace is disposed of (we know its not, but the characters don't), wouldn't he feel it was "safe?" Furthermore, he's a man; he's GOT to get a girl SOMETIME in his life; is he planning to live as a monk because he can crawl up walls? No way, it doesn't make sense; and also, the character is 15. Fifteen! Fifteen year olds WITHOUT superpowers will have their significant others, regardless of the risks, because they think they'll be able to deal with any trouble as it comes. Having superpowers, I don't know what would make him think he's not invincible. Its just false, its not true, its incorrect, this is not how people are.

If I jump off of a tall bridge to save someone, maybe I'm just a nice guy. But if I jump off a bridge to save the woman of my dreams...no WAY am I walking away from my shot at her later. And if that IS a part of his character, then I'm not interested. I can't enjoy a story about a person like that. He's not a stand-up man, if he doesn't have the balls to have a normal relationship with a preferred member of the attractive sex! Can't relate to a psycho like that.
I think your complaint about the ending is...kind of silly. Yes, many people wouldn't make the choice he does, but there is a nice reason why the movie ends there. It's an origin movie, and while I don't think it's a great movie, that little bit at the end signifies his transition into a hero, not only the physical side but the emotional side. Something they built up with the quote by uncle ben. Nothing too deep, but for a hero like spiderman a nice beginning I thought. Maybe you hate that, but chalk it up to personal taste I suppose.

The ending to the Hulk...well...blahhhh.
Old 12-06-03, 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by Ayo
If I jump off of a tall bridge to save someone, maybe I'm just a nice guy. But if I jump off a bridge to save the woman of my dreams...no WAY am I walking away from my shot at her later. And if that IS a part of his character, then I'm not interested. I can't enjoy a story about a person like that. He's not a stand-up man, if he doesn't have the balls to have a normal relationship with a preferred member of the attractive sex! Can't relate to a psycho like that.
dont dismiss the possibility that part of the "artistic license" the screenwriters are taking with the Spiderman films is that they are making Peter Parker gay...

lol!!! may seem dumb, but it would explain a LOT...

j
Old 12-06-03, 05:17 AM
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Iíve always had a problem with Connelly dropping a dime on him at the cabin. Heís been through hell, saved her life and is still freaking out, and she calls the army. Gee, thanks Betty. Thanks a hell of a lot. Remind me never to take you to a party where people are smoking weed.
Old 12-06-03, 12:46 PM
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fifteen, seventeen, eighteen...same thing really. I got the age wrong (maybe I was thinking of the comic? I dunno), but the fact remains; the ending doesn't make any logical sense.


Because the question remains; if he's so concerned with his superhero life being a danger to friends and loved ones, does he ever plan to HAVE a real life? Does he ever plan to have a girlfriend, a wife? Because whether in the present or in the future, its an issue he'll have to address. So unless he's planning to become Spider-Monk, its ridiculous to think his passing on Mary Jane (haha, passing on Mary Jane) is going to make a realistic change in his life, long term. At the end of a story, the audience is usually supposed to have an idea how the protaganist will fare afterward. From this ending, we're left with more questions than answers, and that can work for some stories, but not this kind. There's almost no build up to this radical decison to live a chaste, loveless life, and furthermore, it goes against all that we understand about human nature and human desire. When your story goes against what the audience understands about human nature, you must give adequate reasoning behind it! You must convince your audience of this departure from reality; you have to sell the fantasy, and Spider-Man doesn't. Take yourself out of the obvious Sci-fi-trilogy set up, and look at this movie as a self-contained story. As a self-contained work, does this even make a lick of sense? I mean, do you know how high the Brooklyn Bridge is? A person who'd go through that to save his most beloved only to turn around the next day and reject her flat out needs much, much more motivation than this nonsense.

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